Author Topic: Visiting London England, any suggestions?  (Read 36810 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline djsb

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 589
  • Country: gb
Re: Visiting London England, any suggestions?
« Reply #125 on: July 26, 2014, 03:20:03 pm »
Sorry for stiring up a hornets nest, just trying to be helpful. When I moved down to London in 2000 I found it a lot easier to just hire a bike rather than try to figure out all of the various public transport options. Maybe it's not the best choice for someone who is not familiar with traffic. Having said that most drivers are considerate and the more people cycle the more aware drivers become. I do ride a motorcycle as well so I can see it from both sides. Sometimes riding on the pavement is a question of survival.
I just love cycling thats all. Besides this post is about visiting London and I don't want to get into a fight.
David
Hertfordshire,UK
 University Electronics Technician, London PIC,CCS C,Arduino,Kicad, Altium Designer,LPKF S103,S62 Operator, Electronics instructor.  http://debuggingrules.com/ Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.
 

Offline _Sin

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 247
  • Country: gb
Re: Visiting London England, any suggestions?
« Reply #126 on: July 26, 2014, 04:13:30 pm »
Cycling in London is fine, just stay off the busier roads and don't assume that just because there's some blue paint on the road to indicate a cycle route, that it's actually been planned out and is safe...

But for sight seeing around the centre, it's better than sitting in a tunnel on a baking hot tube train.

As for cycling on the pavement, please don't. If you feel that it's too dangerous on the road, just get off and walk. You're entitled to feel safe, but you're not entitled to endanger or inconvenience others in the process.

(My mother in law currently has a broken arm thanks to a pavement cyclist, and my wife, who is visually impaired, has been knocked down at crossings by cyclists jumping red lights on a few occasions...  please be considerate!)

Programmer with a soldering iron - fear me.
 

Offline Zero999

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14060
  • Country: gb
  • 0999
Re: Visiting London England, any suggestions?
« Reply #127 on: July 27, 2014, 10:47:14 am »
No all English food is crap. Unfortunately most of it now is off my list to eat. I am a Pescatarian (Vegetarian who will eat fish and seafood), and also now have found out I have allergies to tomato and a lactose intolerance.
By the sounds of it you've not had much traditional British food. Fish used to contribute to a large portion of the British diet, until overfishing became a problem. Try fish and chips, jellied eels, fish pie, muscles, cockles, crab etc.

It's unfortunate you have food allergies but that's something that can be a problem wherever you travel. Oh and you may be lactose intolerant but that doesn't mean you need to avoid all dairy. There are plenty of hard cheeses which are extremely low in lactose and shouldn't cause you any problems at all. Lactose is a carbohydrate so any dairy product which has close to zero carbohydrates will also be virtually free of lactose and should be fairly well tolerated. Fortunately food labelling is generally quite good in the UK.

I've seen a noticeable increase in the numbers big people in the UK in my lifetime. I'm actually old enough to remember the last 30 years quite clearly. My point is that there is something going on that has nothing to do with the availability of garbage food as the same food is available in other countries which don't share this obesity problem.
Obesity is a complex problem. Junk food and lack of exercise may be contribute to it but contrary to popular belief dietary restriction is ineffective. It isn't losing the weight but keeping it off which is the problem. After an obese person losses weight, their body fights it. They experience intense cravings for high calorie food, tiredness (therefore reduced physical activity) and eventual weight regain, often above their pre-diet weight, so they end up in a worse situation than before!
 

Offline bwat

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 278
  • Country: se
    • My website
Re: Visiting London England, any suggestions?
« Reply #128 on: July 27, 2014, 11:03:20 am »
Obesity is a complex problem. Junk food and lack of exercise may be contribute to it but contrary to popular belief dietary restriction is ineffective.
I think you've fallen into the same trap as many other people have. Calorie restriction does solve the problem. People who say diets don't work are the people who define a diet as some kind of temporary action. There's no reason for it to be temporary.

It isn't losing the weight but keeping it off which is the problem. After an obese person losses weight, their body fights it. They experience intense cravings for high calorie food, tiredness (therefore reduced physical activity) and eventual weight regain,
For most people (*) it's a question of will power plain and simple.

*) This qualification is to deal with the unlucky souls who have genuine medical conditions. 
"Who said that you should improve programming skills only at the workplace? Is the workplace even suitable for cultural improvement of any kind?" - Christophe Thibaut

"People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware." - Alan Kay
 

Offline Zero999

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14060
  • Country: gb
  • 0999
Re: Visiting London England, any suggestions?
« Reply #129 on: July 28, 2014, 08:14:43 pm »
Obesity is a complex problem. Junk food and lack of exercise may be contribute to it but contrary to popular belief dietary restriction is ineffective.
I think you've fallen into the same trap as many other people have.
I used to share the same view as you but I've realised I was wrong but I don't expect I'll be able to convince you, as I doubt arguing with someone on the Internet would've changed my mind either.

Quote
Calorie restriction does solve the problem. People who say diets don't work are the people who define a diet as some kind of temporary action. There's no reason for it to be temporary.

It isn't losing the weight but keeping it off which is the problem. After an obese person losses weight, their body fights it. They experience intense cravings for high calorie food, tiredness (therefore reduced physical activity) and eventual weight regain,


For most people (*) it's a question of will power plain and simple.

*) This qualification is to deal with the unlucky souls who have genuine medical conditions.
No, calorie restriction does not solve the problem of obesity. This has been known about for a long time, 60 years or more and it isn't a simple case of will power either. For some reason, doctors haven't been told about this. They keep telling their patients to restrict their diet but it's ineffective over the long term - the body fights back making restriction unsustainable.

There's a reason why weight regain occurs after a period of calorific restriction and it has nothing to do with greed or falling back into old habits but the body's starvation response.

In fact calorie restriction makes the problem of obesity worse in most cases, not better. It inflicts more stress on the metabolism and carries an increased risk of further weight gain, rather than loss.

A classic study is the Minnesota starvation experiment. During the war, in a bid do find out how to re-feed famine victims and prisoners, some previously healthy conscientious objectors were put on a low calorie diet and exercise regime until they lost 25% of their original body weight. Not only did the diet cause them to suffer both physically and mentally but when they tried to re-feed, they ended up binge eating, until they overshot their pre-diet weights considerably. Fortunately after a couple of years of not restricting, they returned to their pre-starvation weights, those who were fat before the diet remained fat and those who were thin reverted to being thin. In the long the period of restriction made no difference whatsoever.
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/135/6/1347.full

It turns out that doing the same kind of thing to obese people has similar effects. The main difference is they generally can lose more weight before this happens and their fat does protect their body's protein to some degree but they still end up getting fat again after the period of restriction ceases.

Another interesting experiment is the Vermont prison overfeeding study where a group of prisoners who'd never been overweight before were put on a high calorie diet, in order to increase their body weight by 15% to 25%. Surprisingly many struggled to achieve this, even gouging themselves on between 8000kCal to 10,000kCal per day.
http://idealbodyweights.blogspot.co.uk/2009/08/vermont-prison-overfeeding-study.html

Here's another fascinating article on obesity and the human metabolism.
http://www.dana.org/Cerebrum/Default.aspx?id=39307
 

Offline bwat

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 278
  • Country: se
    • My website
Re: Visiting London England, any suggestions?
« Reply #130 on: July 28, 2014, 08:37:26 pm »
There's a reason why weight regain occurs after a period of calorific restriction and it has nothing to do with greed or falling back into old habits but the body's starvation response.

But if there is no "after"? As I said earlier:
Quote
Calorie restriction does solve the problem. People who say diets don't work are the people who define a diet as some kind of temporary action. There's no reason for it to be temporary.

So no "refeed" as in the Minnesota experiment.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2014, 08:43:50 pm by bwat »
"Who said that you should improve programming skills only at the workplace? Is the workplace even suitable for cultural improvement of any kind?" - Christophe Thibaut

"People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware." - Alan Kay
 

Online IanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9681
  • Country: us
Re: Visiting London England, any suggestions?
« Reply #131 on: July 28, 2014, 09:03:48 pm »
This is way off topic, but I agree with bwat.

Changing your weight requires a permanent lifestyle change (including diet). There is no "period of" or "temporary" anywhere involved.
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 

Offline allikat

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 30
  • Country: gb
Re: Visiting London England, any suggestions?
« Reply #132 on: July 29, 2014, 06:26:47 am »
Back on topic:
I must repeat the recommendation for Bletchley Park, as it's an amazing place, make certain to also visit the (separately charged) computer museum there (be sure and visit on a day it's open).

For more technological related things, then the cities of Manchester and Bristol also have some attractions.
Bristol - where Brunel did most of his best work, and home of a lot of the British aviation industry.  http://www.bristolmuseums.org.uk/ and http://www.ssgreatbritain.org/
Manchester - I believe they have a tech museum associated with UMIST (the UK equivalent to MIT ) - aha  http://www.mosi.org.uk/
Any engineer can readily identify 3 smells:
1: Coffee, 2: Escaped magic smoke, 3: Bullshit
(from an original post by John Coloccia)
 

Offline kc0ngu

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 22
  • Country: us
  • www.flickr.com/photos/3dking/
    • Imaging the Sneaky Electrons
Re: Visiting London England, any suggestions?
« Reply #133 on: July 29, 2014, 08:37:55 pm »
I was going to suggest Garland Bros. of Deptford, an electronics store with huge inventory, but checked and found the business was dissolved in 2012, they would have been worth a trip to the East end, but ho hum, times change.  :-\
 

Offline Zero999

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14060
  • Country: gb
  • 0999
Re: Visiting London England, any suggestions?
« Reply #134 on: July 29, 2014, 09:56:33 pm »
There's a reason why weight regain occurs after a period of calorific restriction and it has nothing to do with greed or falling back into old habits but the body's starvation response.

But if there is no "after"? As I said earlier:
Quote
Calorie restriction does solve the problem. People who say diets don't work are the people who define a diet as some kind of temporary action. There's no reason for it to be temporary.

So no "refeed" as in the Minnesota experiment.

What do you mean no re-feed? Most diets supposed to treat obesity can't be continued indefinitely because they will result in death from starvation eventually.

I think what you're suggesting is why can't they lose weight, then eat about the right amount maintain their current weight? No, it's not that easy. They will have to count calories endlessly, deal with constant cravings, fatigue and ultimately disordered eating, similar to what the Minnesota starvation experiment demonstrated, despite being at a normal weight.

This is way off topic, but I agree with bwat.

Changing your weight requires a permanent lifestyle change (including diet). There is no "period of" or "temporary" anywhere involved.
But it's not that simple. That kind of advice misses the point that the body of a previously obese person who has lost weight, is metabolically different to someone who's never been obese before. A previously obese person will still have more fat cells, be less sensitive to hormones secreted by fat which tell their body that food is plentiful, than someone who's never been obese. To maintain their lower weight they will be continuously starving, as their body attempts to store the calories they eat, rather than burn them, hence the lethargy, fatigue, constant hunger pangs etc.

I can confirm that calorie restriction alone is not enough. It has to be minimal and combined with exercise to work, so that both can be sustained. Unfortunately I'm one of those people with a medical condition that makes exercise impossible, so calorie restriction is all I have available.
That's difficult but there's still no need for calorie restriction, apart from the cravings, it's bad for weight management because you end up weight cycling - it's actually more healthy for your weight to be stable, even it's obese, than swinging from one weight to another. Weight loss always causes some loss of muscle, regain always results in fat gain but minimal muscle gain. How about focussing on health in general?

It seems to be the most sensible and sustainable thing, rather than restriction to control weight.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/214571.php

Anyway, back on topic.

How about the Shuttleworth collection? I've not been there for ages.
http://www.shuttleworth.org/
 

Offline bwat

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 278
  • Country: se
    • My website
Re: Visiting London England, any suggestions?
« Reply #135 on: July 30, 2014, 07:15:36 am »
What do you mean no re-feed?

Most diets supposed to treat obesity can't be continued indefinitely because they will result in death from starvation eventually.
As I said in my first post on the subject "People who say diets don't work are the people who define a diet as some kind of temporary action."

I think what you're suggesting is why can't they lose weight, then eat about the right amount maintain their current weight?
No I'm not saying that. I'm saying that people should adopt a diet which gives them the necessary nutrition amount of energy which roughly matches their target wight w.r.t. their activity levels. I see no "weight loss" then "maintenance" phases just normal daily routine.

it's actually more healthy for your weight to be stable, even it's obese, than swinging from one weight to another.
Again you're assuming weight swings. It doesn't have to swing back and forth.

Weight loss always causes some loss of muscle,
Agreed.

regain always results in fat gain but minimal muscle gain.
You've never trained olympic weightlifting and I'm sure others who have trained strength sports will agree with me. Your use "minimial" is pure hyperbole. Also, any gain in muscle mass will help an individual to burn more calories when training as their stronger bodies will be able to handle more volume.

How about focussing on health in general?
Honestly, this sounds like "If at first you don't succeed, redefine success".

Look, we're not going to see eye to eye and this has nowt to do with electronics so I'll not say any more on the matter to stop the thread getting shut down.
"Who said that you should improve programming skills only at the workplace? Is the workplace even suitable for cultural improvement of any kind?" - Christophe Thibaut

"People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware." - Alan Kay
 

Offline KJDS

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2442
  • Country: gb
    • my website holding page
Re: Visiting London England, any suggestions?
« Reply #136 on: July 30, 2014, 10:27:38 am »
I'd like to suggest a stroll along the south bank of the Thames, perhaps a trip on the London eye, but whatever you do, don't start a conversation on obesity as it seems you'll never hear the end of it.

Offline Lightages

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 4295
  • Country: ca
  • Canadian po
Re: Visiting London England, any suggestions?
« Reply #137 on: September 04, 2014, 09:20:03 pm »
Thank you all very much for the lively discussion and the suggestions. I will be in London from the 6th until the 11th. I can probably meet up with people on the 6th, 7th, and maybe the 8th and 10th, and I hope to do at least some of the thing that have been suggested.

If you want to meet and bend an elbow somewhere, please send me a PM and hopefully we can arrange something.

Thanks again.
 

Online IanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9681
  • Country: us
Re: Visiting London England, any suggestions?
« Reply #138 on: September 04, 2014, 10:38:58 pm »
Since the London Eye was mentioned I'll also mention the cable car thingy ("the dangleway") in Greenwich. Of all the high places in London to get aerial views it is by far the least expensive and involves least queuing. The view is not super scenic, but still quite impressive.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2014, 11:04:44 pm by IanB »
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 12124
  • Country: gb
    • Mike's Electric Stuff
Re: Visiting London England, any suggestions?
« Reply #139 on: September 04, 2014, 10:49:44 pm »
Since the London Eye was mentioned I'll also mention the cable car thingy ("the dangleway") in Greenwich. Of all the high places in London to get aerial views it is by far the least expensive and involves least queuing. The view is not super scenic, but still quite impressive.
One of my projects is in the Siemens exhibition at the Crystal, right next to the northern terminal of the cable car
http://www.hirschandmann.com/2013/siemens-crystal/

..at least as far as I know it's still there......
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Offline Wytnucls

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2864
  • Country: be
Re: Visiting London England, any suggestions?
« Reply #140 on: September 05, 2014, 04:30:39 am »
Will just miss you. Arriving on the 11th. Staying in Kensington. Too bad.
 

Offline Lightages

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 4295
  • Country: ca
  • Canadian po
Re: Visiting London England, any suggestions?
« Reply #141 on: September 05, 2014, 04:33:55 am »
Damn, too bad.  :(

Well if you ever make it to Chile, north Chile, let me know.
 

Offline zapta

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6004
  • Country: us
Re: Visiting London England, any suggestions?
« Reply #142 on: September 05, 2014, 12:33:27 pm »
i remember racing some cycle couriers on my mtb through the center of london once. id never cycle in london ever again.

If you ride your bikes in London streets use the Bike Butterfly for your safety:



Drain the swamp.
 

Offline GK

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2607
  • Country: au
Re: Visiting London England, any suggestions?
« Reply #143 on: September 05, 2014, 12:51:05 pm »
Did someone have their fingers on the pitch control, or is she supposed to sound like a chipmunk?




I think you mate should have called the celestial object Tatyana.

Bzzzzt. No longer care, over this forum shit.........ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 

Offline rolycat

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1090
  • Country: gb
Re: Visiting London England, any suggestions?
« Reply #144 on: September 06, 2014, 01:14:47 am »
Did someone have their fingers on the pitch control, or is she supposed to sound like a chipmunk?

[link to Wuthering Heights video removed]


I think you mate should have called the celestial object Tatyana.

[link to Bach guitarist removed]
She was portraying a tormented spirit yearning for her lost lover.

For a more conventionally beautiful song, try this:



She wrote the song aged thirteen and this version was recorded when she was sixteen.



 

Offline GK

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2607
  • Country: au
Re: Visiting London England, any suggestions?
« Reply #145 on: September 06, 2014, 01:40:14 am »
She was portraying a tormented spirit yearning for her lost lover.


That just happens to sound like a chipmunk.
Bzzzzt. No longer care, over this forum shit.........ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 

Offline rolycat

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1090
  • Country: gb
Re: Visiting London England, any suggestions?
« Reply #146 on: September 06, 2014, 02:32:09 am »
She was portraying a tormented spirit yearning for her lost lover.

That just happens to sound like a chipmunk.

Congratulations - you are clearly the first person since the song's release 36 years ago to have spotted that she sang it using a falsetto register...

...No, apparently not - here is one of your countrymen singing it in the same key:


« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 02:42:20 am by rolycat »
 

Offline GK

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2607
  • Country: au
Re: Visiting London England, any suggestions?
« Reply #147 on: September 06, 2014, 04:24:37 am »
here is one of your countrymen singing it in the same key:


Whatever turns you on.
Bzzzzt. No longer care, over this forum shit.........ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 

Offline Zad

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1013
  • Country: gb
    • Digital Wizardry, Analogue Alchemy, Software Sorcery
Re: Visiting London England, any suggestions?
« Reply #148 on: September 06, 2014, 05:08:44 am »
Chipmunk or not, its really not a good idea to express the opinion if you are in the UK. She has more talent than 90% of the current top 40 from any country you care to mention, all combined.

You may (or may not) prefer this version.



I think I just heard "WTF" from distant places around the world. At least it is sung with a Yorkshire accent, where Wuthering Heights is written and set in. Where it looks like this:



Being 200 miles from London doesn't stop loads of Americans, Aussies, Japanese... people from everywhere really. We do seem to have a lot of Aussies recently though (about which I'm really not complaining, a nicer bunch of crims you couldn't wish to meet) I wonder if Yorkshire has been on a TV series in Aus this year or something?

Offline Lightages

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 4295
  • Country: ca
  • Canadian po
Re: Visiting London England, any suggestions?
« Reply #149 on: September 06, 2014, 02:49:49 pm »
I am now sitting in my hotel in West Kensington sipping a bit of Talisker Dark Storm and dreaming of being horizontal for a bit instead of trying to sleep sitting up. Tonight I go looking for a good curry and a good sleep afterward. I would really like to get to Brick Lane but I understand it is a bit far from here and I am sure I would get lost on the tube.

Kate Bush is not everyone's taste, and I am glad for that. If something is too popular I tend to shy away from it. She has a unique talent and a wild imagination. I am sure I will be entertained more at her concert than any other 10 concerts I have been to put together. So there! :box:
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf