EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
General => General Technical Chat => Topic started by: EEVblog on March 12, 2017, 10:29:58 pm
-
I want to get one of those Wacom tablets for Khan Academy style video creation, but don't know which one is going to works best.
From what I see they have:
Cintiq: Has the 13" colour screen and you draw directly onto the screen, so no need to look at the monitor while drawing. Not cheap.
Intuos: You actually draw with an ink pen onto paper on the tablet (or I guess you can look at the PC screen live instead), so basically a cheaper option than the Cintiq. The Intuos Draw looks like the one to get for just PC screen capture drawing?
Bamboo: Just a tablet you draw onto your PC screen with screen capture. Slightly cheaper and lower rent version of the the Intuos Draw?
At AU$100, I figure I can just get the Intuos Draw and experiment?
Hard to find a good summary of the actual difference for my style of use, which I'm still not 100% sure about ;D
Basically I just want an easy way to draw directly on the PC and screen capture whilst recording voiceover. And one that works with paint programs like smoothdraw that Khan Academy uses.
Anyone have any experience in these things?
Thanks.
-
You could try the IGDA (International Game Developers Association) Sydney and see if anyone would let you try a few options? Plenty of Game artists have various forms of Wacoms.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/SydneyIGDA/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/SydneyIGDA/)
-
And what is the difference between the Intuos Draw and the Intuos Art?
I don't get it.
-
We have dozens of tablets of all kinds at work and I'd say the best one for you would be an intuous draw. The paper scanning ones are a bit of a gimmick. The draw will be a workhorse that will last decades.
Re draw vs art, I think there is just a button missing. I have never met anyone who ever uses the buttons so don't sweat it
-
Art has multi touch, draw doesn't.
Smoothdraw might support using 2 finger touch to pan/drag across the page. Although I think you should be able to do that with the Draw by holding a pen button bound to right mouse button.
-
Using the pen lower button for pan works very well for me. Much more convenient than multitouch.
-
I generally prefer to draw directly on a screen. I had a bamboo tablet but never got the hang of it.
Give Microsoft OneNote a try. I use it for teaching university courses. You can easily pan around. The pens smooth out very nice. The work " surface" allows you to insert just about any kind of object.... Excel data, text, pictur s , equations, etc. It is much more than a glorified paint program.
I have tried all of the previously mentioned software. One Note was what I found to be the best for instruction.
-
I have an old Intuos 3. You need some practice to get used to it, not watching at the pen tip while drawing or writing, but it helps that when you hover the pen, that it is like a mouse movement without the mouse button pressed.
I looked at the specs for the Intuos Draw and seems to be only available in "small" size, with an active area of 152 x 95 mm. This would be too small, at least for me. Before my Wacom tablet I had a noname tablet which was half the size and was no fun using it, because I need some space to draw. My Intuos 3 A5 has 203 x 152 mm active area. The Intuos Art, Medium, looks usable: 216 x 135 mm.
My tablet works fine with SmoothDraw, I just tested it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJDUqWy0BgQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJDUqWy0BgQ)
SmoothDraw is a nice program, I didn't know it before you mentioned it was used a Khan Academy. As you can see at the end of the video, it supports pressure sensitive drawing, too, thicker lines when you press the pen harder on the tablet. The toolbar can be configured, just drag-and-drop the most used tools from the drop-down menu to it. I replaced "smooth eraser" with "hard eraser". But the back of my pen, usually usable as an eraser, didn't work, but it works in Photoshop. But not a big problem, all tools can be selected with keyboard shortcuts, or click on it with the pen. My setup is Windows 10, 64 bit (in a VM with Linux as host, but this doesn't matter, I just needed to disable VM mouse integration to make the tablet work). But I think Windows 10 has some OS support for tablets, so any other tablet with driver support for it should work, too.
That's me using the same table in Photoshop some years ago. I know, I have no talent, still fun :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxhExb3ebU8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxhExb3ebU8)
-
I supported an Animation studio for years that had a number of ex-Disney 2D animators.
Some liked the big screen Cintiq (very expensive) which they used as their primary screen. Others preferred the mid sized Intuous-type tablets. If you do not need the pen angle sensitivity, the cheaper pressure sensitive tablets like the Bamboo are adequate. For some people, the Bamboo is just too small, but the resolution and line quaility is fine.
No-one really liked the 13" Cintiqs - they wanted a main screen to work on. Also no-one liked the really big Intuos tablets - anything bigger then about A4 size gets awkward to fit on the desk and to use.
The thing is a plain tablet is horrible to use until you learn to use it - then you can use it as well as any Cintiq. It just doesn't feel right at first. It comes down to whether you want to learn a tablet or not.
The good thing about learning to use the Bamboo or the Draw is it fits in a notebook bag so you can have it handy wherever you are. What you usually cannot do is to use a Cintiq in the office and a Bamboo on the road because Wacom drivers are famously incompatible with .... Wacom drivers.
In choosing a drawing package, many now automatically smooth lines and this is a real help. Even the animators loved that feature.
There are the tablets that capture pen on paper, but I have no experience with them.
-
I have an old Intuos 3. You need some practice to get used to it, not watching at the pen tip while drawing or writing, but it helps that when you hover the pen, that it is like a mouse movement without the mouse button pressed.
I looked at the specs for the Intuos Draw and seems to be only available in "small" size, with an active area of 152 x 95 mm. This would be too small, at least for me. Before my Wacom tablet I had a noname tablet which was half the size and was no fun using it, because I need some space to draw. My Intuos 3 A5 has 203 x 152 mm active area. The Intuos Art, Medium, looks usable: 216 x 135 mm.
My tablet works fine with SmoothDraw, I just tested it:
Thanks, yes likely too small, the medium Art one sounds good.
-
I'm thinking that Intuous Pro Paper version sound like the go, lets me work with the familiar real paper interface but will screen capture in real time as well. No need to look at the screen and figure out where to come back to with your pen.
The medium supports A5 paper which is good enough. The large is A4, which would be too big for crowded desk use I think.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOOgPUEiBDo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOOgPUEiBDo)
-
This paper tablet looks cool, I wonder how they do this, someone needs to do a teardown :) Can you use the paper mode and the tablet mode at the same time? In the video he recorded the paper drawing, only. But at least it works in tablet mode, too, so you can still use this for screen recording.
-
This paper tablet looks cool, I wonder how they do this, someone needs to do a teardown :) Can you use the paper mode and the tablet mode at the same time? In the video he recorded the paper drawing, only. But at least it works in tablet mode, too, so you can still use this for screen recording.
They might tweak the sensitivity a bit to compensate for the paper thickness. But maybe paper on the normal on works as well, but you just don't have the hook on top to hold it in place. So could just be the hook that is different + the ink pen.
-
I dunno about the paper... 5 or 6 of the animators here at work got them and I don't think any of them used them for more than a day. They all went back to an intuous or cintiqe. They all thought exactly the same thing as you Dave before getting it.I think losing erase capability isn't worth the tradeoff
-
The Bamboo Slate is cheaper and probably adequate.
There is also the Boogie Board Sync9.7.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fGoU9VmbSY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fGoU9VmbSY)
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Boogie-Board-Sync-9-7-Paperless-Bluetooth-LCD-Writing-Tablet-eWriter-BRAND-NEW-/291680809495 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Boogie-Board-Sync-9-7-Paperless-Bluetooth-LCD-Writing-Tablet-eWriter-BRAND-NEW-/291680809495)
Has the same limitations of paper - no partial delete.
I think the recording of the pen strokes is passive. Power is needed for syncing and deleting.
-
The Bamboo Slate is cheaper and probably adequate.
Does that actually render on the screen in real time though?
-
In the video, it looks like you can sync live. Round about 3:20.
-
All the Wacom products are optimized for artists. There are a ton of subtle features for that. I have been using an older Intuos for years and used many of the previous models as well.
It does not take long to get used to not seeing the pen. You simply hover around and can see the cursor. For sketching web videos, the smaller ones are probably easier to deal with.
The Cintiq would not be a waste of money, but definitely a luxury. I have used the bigger one and it is fantastic. The little one is still a great device too of course.
Sent from my horrible mobile....
-
Thanks.
Wacom Intuos Art Medium ordered ;D
Less than half the price of the Pro medium paper job.
The small was too small I think, medium seems about right.
I'll give the digital thing a shot and see how it goes.
-
I'll give the digital thing a shot and see how it goes.
Nope, teardown first please.
(If it is not one of those %!#%#?/€@ glued assemblies as used in the mobile device industry)
-
As a general bit of advice, don't even bother with Wacom's idea of wireless use. Just plug in that USB cable and enjoy your moves smooth, uninterrupted, and not snapping back to the beginning (yes, it's that bad). If your device comes with a separate battery and transceiver, just leave them in the box or tear them apart.
-
This paper tablet looks cool, I wonder how they do this, someone needs to do a teardown :) Can you use the paper mode and the tablet mode at the same time? In the video he recorded the paper drawing, only. But at least it works in tablet mode, too, so you can still use this for screen recording.
AFAICS it's just that they hav a stylus that has ink in it.
Micah Scott did some investigations of some earlier tablets :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPab7pbOhBY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPab7pbOhBY)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4AKwJERxOw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4AKwJERxOw)
-
Monoprice has some tablets at a fraction of the price of Wacoms: https://www.monoprice.com/category?c_id=108&cp_id=10841 (https://www.monoprice.com/category?c_id=108&cp_id=10841)
-
Monoprice has some tablets at a fraction of the price of Wacoms: https://www.monoprice.com/category?c_id=108&cp_id=10841 (https://www.monoprice.com/category?c_id=108&cp_id=10841)
No thanks. I'm willing to bet that (as usual) it's the little things that matter.
Everyone swears by Wacoms for a reason I suspect.
-
There is always cheap tablets and cheap digitized screens available at a fraction of the Wacom price. Trouble is all the graphics developers always uses the Wacom tablets and hardly ever the cheap alternatives. For professional use, you end up with the Wacom.
Wacom had the best technology tied up, and it has been very unfortunate for the industry - good tablets have always cost over 10 times the amount they should, Wacom often has used pathetically old, slow processors, and they cannot write drivers if their life depended on it. If the industry had standardised more, you could just plug in a tablet of multiple brands into Windows and it would work perfectly, but no such luck.
-
It takes a few hours to get use to a Wacom. Use it for a bit before using it "on air".
-
Lol you can say that again about the drivers. It's taken them 20 years to get to the "mostly works" point. And this is for a glorified mouse.
Agree 100% about avoiding other brands. It's disappointment all the way with anything else. Artists are cheapskates, if anything else did the job they would use it. There is one exception and that is the new iPad pros. They have an excellent drawing action but not what you are looking for for this application.
I also agree 100% about spending a few days getting your brain wired up for using it before you go live. It soon becomes very natural but first time can be a little awkward and clumsy.
-
Monoprice is very hit or miss. I buy all my Ethernet cables from there, never had a problem. I have a gig switch I got that is every bit as good as the name brand one I replaced with it (needed more ports - the 8 port Monoprice one was LESS than I paid for the 4 port name brand one). Data transfer rates, all else being equal as possible (not super scientific, but the only variable easy to control was swapping the switch, same cables, same computers with the same ethernet chipsets) actually went up a tiny bit. I've picked up a few other things over the years, but some of their things, especially now that they have branched out and have a wider range of products, seem kind of dodgy. If I had a ned for a drawing interface, I'd probably give the Monoprice one a try, but I wouldn't be using it professionally. I've done that sort of thing before, if I am unsure of how much I will actually use something, I will get a cheaper one to see if I really need it. If so, I'll use it until the limitations hold me back and I'll get a good one, if not, well, it's not a whole lot of money wasted.
Wacom is the most recognized brand for a reason though. For professional use it's not like you have time to dick around with a cheap knockoff only to end u buying a Wacom anyway.
-
There is always cheap tablets and cheap digitized screens available at a fraction of the Wacom price. Trouble is all the graphics developers always uses the Wacom tablets and hardly ever the cheap alternatives. For professional use, you end up with the Wacom.
Wacom had the best technology tied up, and it has been very unfortunate for the industry - good tablets have always cost over 10 times the amount they should, Wacom often has used pathetically old, slow processors, and they cannot write drivers if their life depended on it. If the industry had standardised more, you could just plug in a tablet of multiple brands into Windows and it would work perfectly, but no such luck.
For one cheaper entry point there have been a lot of "convertible" tablet/PCs with wacom hardware in them, much cheaper than the standalone wacom devices and more so second hand.
Also if you have an ipad around for other purposes:
https://www.duetdisplay.com/pro/ (https://www.duetdisplay.com/pro/)
But even buying a pro outright just as an interface is still much cheaper than a cintiq if you dont mind the smaller size. I found drawing on a 10-12" size was about right for me, but everyone has their own preferences.