Author Topic: Watches lovers  (Read 39989 times)

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Offline watchmaker

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Re: Watches lovers
« Reply #50 on: January 14, 2024, 12:49:31 pm »
You may need to broach the hole to size but you should find a finish and style that look right.

That's exactly how I damaged this one, I broached it until the pipe came off. I don't know the story behind this watch but the hours and minutes hands were good fit, while the seconds hole was too small. It is a special thunder bolt like hand.

https://www.chrono24.ca/rolex/rolex-new-2023-milgauss-black-dial-116400gv--id27437815.htm

That gets filed under "shit happens".  It was probably just frictioned onto the pipe with no rivet or burnish.  The horses out of the barn, but you hold the pipe with a side or end cutter pliers while broaching these.  Tweezers do give a secure grip and holding by the hand just removes it.  Many expensive watches use this same design to have it self destruct when levered off. Why with the parts restrictions prof watchmakers will not touch new watches.  Did you look at the websites for second hands assortments in the material section?
Regards,

Dewey
 

Online MitiTopic starter

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Re: Watches lovers
« Reply #51 on: January 16, 2024, 02:43:43 am »
Does the T in the T SWISS MADE T mean Tritium? I have to learn more about the safety of these damn watches. Are they still using radioactive materials in these relatively new cheap watches?
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Online andy3055

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Online MitiTopic starter

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Re: Watches lovers
« Reply #53 on: January 19, 2024, 03:17:31 pm »
Radium or Tritium? How do I know if this watch dial has Radium or Tritium? I know it is mildly radioactive, and I assume it is Tritium, but how can I be sure and how dangerous is it if is indeed Tritium? If it is Radium it goes straight into the garbage.

Thanks,
Miti
« Last Edit: January 19, 2024, 04:05:45 pm by Miti »
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Online helius

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Re: Watches lovers
« Reply #54 on: January 20, 2024, 03:09:17 am »
Measuring the dose rate would be one way to tell. Tritium dials evidently have a low dose rate.
There are inexpensive zinc chloride screens that give a qualitative indication of dose rate, and a geiger counter device would yield a more quantitative indication.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Watches lovers
« Reply #55 on: January 20, 2024, 04:37:33 am »




 
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Online MitiTopic starter

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Re: Watches lovers
« Reply #56 on: January 20, 2024, 01:00:16 pm »
Whoaaa, thanks Dave, that’s indeed sex on a stick! I’ve seen Acutron on Kijiji but I didn’t give it any attention, I just thought it was another commercial gimmick.
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Offline watchmaker

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Re: Watches lovers
« Reply #57 on: January 20, 2024, 01:04:57 pm »






The history of the search for the search of the "perfect" oscillator is very fascinating.  It was originally driven by the need for the most precise system for the marine chronometer.  During the 1800s this took up a lot of mental energy.  The issue is that there was a mismatch between the coefficient of elasticity for a hardened steel balance spring and the rate of contraction/expansion of the bimetallic balance.  They could be matched at 50 and 90 degrees F, but the full curve resulted in a 1 second gain per day at 70.  Hence, the term Middle Temperature Error.

When you are at sea for 3 years and on a ship with no environmental controls and you cross extreme latitudes in summer and winter, that 1 second per day becomes an arithmetic nuisance.  It can and did result in many wrecks.

Some attacked this via materials (Frodsham experimented with glass), others took a mechanical approach where they "boosted" the balance response to temperature by affiixes such as small mercury thermometers or physical attachments (Poole,Kullberg).

Many of these watchmakers did the math and fully understood what they were doing. Finally, Guilluame, the Director of Swiss Bureau of Standards, invented Elinvar after developing Invar.  He was awarded the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1922.

This was a game changer in watches because it eliminated the need for a split bimetallic balacne which was subject to Middel Temp Error and also physical forces such as centrifugal effects on the free ends.

The related alloys and the use of monometallic balances account for the incredible performance of modern mechanical wrist watches.

I had written an article about this work back in 1992.

Fast Forward.  Quartz chronometers were first issued to the USN in WWII!.  BIG suckers!

Mechanical chronometers were not removed from service until 1988 (I have a copy of the recall order) because quartz could not handle salt water and constant vibrations.  Only GPS superseded the WWII-manufactured Hamilton M21 (which used Elinvar and the monometallic balance).

After WWII Hamilton started work on an electric watch, as did LIP in France.  The idea was to eliminate changes in torque that result from a mainspring.  They used a fine wire triggered by the balance position to fire a sole to impulse the balance. 

This work is credited with the development of the button cell (I forget but it may have been Hamilton that created the first cell).

This watch was introduced in 1957, but it is a PITA to own and a disaster to service.  There is only one person in the USA who can reliably service these because that is ALL he did.  OTOH, Elgin's attempt was a disaster and had to be recalled from the market.  If you just looked at the movement it fell apart.

Then came Accutron 214 which is just a pawl attached to a tuning fork that pushes an index wheel.  These were actually used by NASA.  The first ones did not use electronics IIRC.  The issue with these is the coils do go bad.  The last I heard people were trying to reinvent the winding procedures.  If you have one serviced, make sure it is by someone who adjusts it for the higher voltage of the modern cells.

Then came the quartz revolution  Again Hamilton was in the lead (Pulsar, I think).  These cost in 1970 a couple grand.  Omega came out with a quartz driven tuning fork watch that is now very rare in working condition.  I do not think even Omega Switz has parts.

Finally came the democratization of quartz.  I remember a trip to Canal St. in NYC in 1982 with a friend to look at selling quartz jellybean watches from China.  Came in assemblies to avoid customs.  Battery, strap, dialed movement, and case.  Less than $2USD SHIPPED!.  No wonder the Swiss speak of this period as the "crisis".

I have a friend at the US Naval Observatory who maintains the rubidium fountains.  Took us for a tour.  Amazing stuff.

There is a long history of engineering and material science in this field that should make any person with a physics background proud.





« Last Edit: January 20, 2024, 01:06:57 pm by watchmaker »
Regards,

Dewey
 
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Online MitiTopic starter

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Re: Watches lovers
« Reply #58 on: January 29, 2024, 12:21:03 am »
Timex Ironman Datalink USB - The best watch I've ever owned!
I bought the first one around 2003 from a swap shop, I think it was, for 30$ CAD, in almost perfect condition. It came with fabric band and the USB cable. I did not take it off of my wrist for more than 12 years. I showered, I repaired the car, I went into the ocean in Cuba with it. I replaced the band many times with silicone band from Timex, for awhile, until they discontinued it. These bands have a special zig-zag shape. So after they stopped selling them, I bought silicone straps from Ebay. They aren't perfect, because of the zig-zag shape, but I only cared about functionality.
It has USB connection and a PC application. It has chronograph, countdown timer, interval timer, synchro timer, counter, schedule, alarm, appointments, occasions, contacts, notes, and mode for some functionality options. It's an old implementation of a smart watch with a regular CR2025 battery that can last up to two years, probably, if you don't use the sound and the light.
Then around 2017 or 2018, one of the lugs broke and it broke my heart with it. I tried everything to glue it back but nothing sticks to that resin. Superglue, epoxy, contact cement, you name it, nothing helped.
From time to time I searched on Kijiji and on Ebay for a good or a bad one, with intact case, so I can move the electronics in it, with no success. Well, there was one on Ebay but the price was almost 400$ US plus shipping...  :palm:
Until last summer when, to my surprise, an almost new one showed up on Kijiji for 40$ CAD. I bought it right away and here it is.
The old one goes about 5-6 seconds too fast, the new one about 12 seconds too fast per month.
Unfortunately, they don't make anything alike anymore, from what I can see.
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Offline hneve

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Re: Watches lovers
« Reply #59 on: February 21, 2024, 08:53:03 pm »
Definitely, having someone around who knows their way around watch repair and restoration would be awesome for us all. Just curious, do you ever deal with replicas, like Rolex or Patek Philippe ones? I snagged my first replica three years back, and honestly, it's been amazing for adding a bit of class to my outfits without costing a fortune. I found it through this place called AAAReplicaStore, where they've got these spot-on replicas that look just like the real deal. Really handy spot for getting that high-end look on a budget.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2024, 05:56:06 pm by hneve »
73 de LB4NH
 

Online MitiTopic starter

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Re: Watches lovers
« Reply #60 on: February 24, 2024, 08:06:57 pm »
Definitely, having someone around who knows their way around watch repair and restoration would be awesome for us all. Just curious, do you ever deal with replicas, like Rolex or Patek Philippe ones?

I'm definitely not that someone.  :-DD I'm just a hobbyist, but I learned a lot from this channel  https://www.youtube.com/@WristwatchRevival and from others. 
This is my watch collection so far in the order of acquisition:

1. Timex Ironman Datalink USB $40
See two posts up. I have two, one is damaged, the other one is like new.

2. Citizen $15
Very basic quartz watch, came as not working, it needed a battery. In very good shape, no scratches at the time I bought it.

2034266-0

3. Rodania $15
It came in rough shape, I bought it to practice repair on it. It didn't run, the hours hand was bent, the seconds hand was missing, the crystal was scratched inside and outside. I disassembled it completely, washed it in lighter fluid and IPA, I reassembled it and lubricated it. I straightened the hours hand, I polished the crystal, I broached and installed a seconds hand from another quartz movement that I couldn't fix. It runs about +12 sec/day but without a timegrapher, it's the best I can do.

2034242-1

4. Rolex Milgauss replica $40
A quality replica, it came in pieces. The movement in one bag, case in another bag, hands in a small box. I've put everything together, with the exception of the seconds hand which had a hole too small for the shaft. I tried to broach it but the pipe came off. I couldn't find time to fix it yet. Maybe one day...

2034248-2
2034284-3

5. Fossil Skeleton Automatic $30
It came in rough shape cosmetically, but the movement is perfect. One spring bar was bent, the band was severely scratched, some small scratches on the crystal but they are not visible without a loupe. I replaced the spring bar, I polished the inner part of the band and brushed metal the outer parts. It is my favorite watch, runs about +7-8 sec/day after adjustments.

2034254-4

6. Kenneth Cole Skeleton Automatic $20

Case perfect, crystal perfect, the band was all scratched. Also, the crystal was all foggy inside, like a plastic outgassed or something. I opened it, cleaned the crystal nicely, I polished the band, again inner shiny, outer brushed metal. It runs about +10 sec/day after adjustment. It is a bit too big for my wrist and the band is too short. I may sell it or replace the SS band with leather but it won't be the same.

2034260-5

No Patek Philippe so far.  :palm:
As you can see I'm cheap. I buy them to restore them and not for their perceived value.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2024, 08:24:30 pm by Miti »
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Online jpanhalt

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Re: Watches lovers
« Reply #61 on: February 24, 2024, 08:49:55 pm »
I love those skeleton watches.  I didn't know such things existed and will consider one for my Christmas present to myself in 2024.  Maybe my son too, if he is good.  ;)
 

Offline edpalmer42

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Re: Watches lovers
« Reply #62 on: February 24, 2024, 10:23:18 pm »
Here are some links for hardware & software for those who want to tinker.

http://www.watchoscope.com/

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/scope-to-read-oscillations-of-a-watch/

https://github.com/vacaboja/tg

If you check aliexpress or ebay, there are lots of timegrapher-style microphones for use with your software.  I recommend that you get one that has both USB and 3.5 mm connections to give you more flexibility.

There are timegrapher apps for both Android and IOS.  They typically use the phone's built-in microphone, but some also will use the timegrapher-style microphones.

Ed
 
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Offline Black Phoenix

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Re: Watches lovers
« Reply #63 on: February 26, 2024, 11:54:21 am »
Well a little view from my collection Casio Gshock Collection (Also have some Seiko watches not shown here):



From left to right, top to down:

GW-5000U-1J, GXW-56-1BJ, GW-9400-1, DW-6900B-9J, DW-8800B-2V.

Still have 3 more in view to finish my 8 piece collection: 1 recent and 2 vintage from the 90s.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2024, 11:57:16 am by Black Phoenix »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Watches lovers
« Reply #64 on: March 03, 2024, 09:34:13 am »
Well a little view from my collection Casio Gshock Collection (Also have some Seiko watches not shown here):


Wow, pelican case is serious! Mine are just lying loose in a draw  :scared:
 

Offline Black Phoenix

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Re: Watches lovers
« Reply #65 on: March 04, 2024, 10:21:21 am »
Well a little view from my collection Casio Gshock Collection (Also have some Seiko watches not shown here):


Wow, pelican case is serious! Mine are just lying loose in a draw  :scared:

Just got a good deal back when I bought the DW-8800 and the seller also had that 6 slot B&W Pelican like case already with custom foam cutouts.

Before mine were all in a cardboard box with bubble wrap.
 

Online MitiTopic starter

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Re: Watches lovers
« Reply #66 on: March 06, 2024, 01:20:00 pm »
My Pelican case would have to rotate. Three of my mechanical watches are automatic, and there's another <radioactive> one waiting for repair.  :-DD
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Offline perdrix

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Re: Watches lovers
« Reply #67 on: March 07, 2024, 09:08:13 am »
>What I had in mind were scams like

>- standard service is £600
>- we can't service the watch if the ceramic case has a scratch on it (new case £1800)
>- other service shops can't get some parts
>- parts removed are not returned to you so you can't check if you were charged for replacing a good item
>- no correspondence is entered into re the nature of the fault
>- basically everyone there is a complete thicko who tells you nothing

>The above is IWC UK

Oh yes!  I just sent a watch (1999 vintage) back to Breitling that failed less than a year after a full service.   I'm going to press for repair under warranty 🤞.

This is the second movement this watch has had and it already went back for warranty repair in 2018.   Truly temperamental stuff.

My ancient Seiko 5 by contrast has never been serviced, and keeps excellent time (within 5s / day) whenever I wear it!

Dave
« Last Edit: March 07, 2024, 09:10:05 am by perdrix »
 
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Online MitiTopic starter

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Re: Watches lovers
« Reply #68 on: March 24, 2024, 11:53:27 pm »
I knew that trying to resist is futile... :palm:
I bought a Weishi 1000 timegrapher. After testing it, and I must say I'm impressed with how well it works, I wanted to see how well it is calibrated. For that I used my Feeltech FY6600 generator and a piezo buzzer. I calibrated the generator oscillator using a frequency counter with GPSDO time base and set it to 6Hz to simulate 21600 bph and about 5.5% duty to simulate the in and out sounds in the pallet fork, as it ticks on both rising and falling edges.

2083847-02083859-1

The result is below. Not bad eh?

2083853-2

One thing I don't know. How to check if the amplitude is correct? What's the relation between the time between the in and out ticks, the lift angle, the bph, and the amplitude? I know it is a pendulum but I couldn't find a calculator that can calculate the time it takes in a given angle around the rest position so I can set the duty cycle for a specific angle.
Phew, very convoluted question but I think you get my point. How to set a duty cycle and correlate it with the amplitude shown by the timegrapher?

Cheers,
Miti
« Last Edit: March 24, 2024, 11:55:04 pm by Miti »
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Online AVGresponding

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Re: Watches lovers
« Reply #69 on: April 23, 2024, 04:28:47 pm »
Can anyone shed any light on the brand "Gervaux"? I recently acquired a wristwatch, and there doesn't seem to be much in the way of information out there.
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Offline watchmaker

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Re: Watches lovers
« Reply #70 on: April 23, 2024, 08:45:12 pm »
Can anyone shed any light on the brand "Gervaux"? I recently acquired a wristwatch, and there doesn't seem to be much in the way of information out there.

It is likely a "house" brand; a watch dialed for a specific store for example.  If you can take a pic of the movt, I may be able to ID the movt.

If it is a snap back case (which I suspect), we put the watch vertical with the crown in a hollow stump.  Then use a single edge razor blade to get into the seam and open it.  If there are no obvious tool holding recesses on the back, it is snap back.  If there are recesses, or it has octagonal sides, then it could still be a snap back, but you need to try unscrewing it first.  We have special dies for this.
Regards,

Dewey
 
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Online AVGresponding

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Re: Watches lovers
« Reply #71 on: April 24, 2024, 05:11:02 pm »
It has six squared notches in the back, I guess indicating a screw back. I do not have anything suitable for this, but a work colleague is a watchmaker (he looks after all the municipal clocks in the city I work in), so next time I see him I'll see what he thinks (might be a few weeks/months though).
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Online helius

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Re: Watches lovers
« Reply #72 on: April 24, 2024, 06:15:38 pm »
I've found the rubber rings used for opening camera lenses can also open some watch backs, depending on how tight the back is screwed in.
 

Offline hneve

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Re: Watches lovers
« Reply #73 on: June 01, 2024, 08:48:10 am »
I took a dive into restoring a couple of watches last year, which really piqued my interest in how complex these devices can be. I am a big fan now. However, I don't see the point in buying such expensive watches. All may watches are from https://replica24.to/. They are as stylish as the originals. And I saved a lot of bucks.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2024, 09:15:52 am by hneve »
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Re: Watches lovers
« Reply #74 on: June 01, 2024, 09:26:29 am »
Saw my colleague, and using a device that would look at home in a medieval torture dungeon, he removed the "glass" (turns out it's UB acrylic), measured it and showed me what to order from ebay, so now I have a nice new crack-free and magnifier-free lens.



He recognised the brand, and said it's decent quality, though low-end, said I paid a fair price, and also said don't bother wasting money on a service as it's keeping good enough time, for now.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2024, 09:31:18 am by AVGresponding »
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