Watt the fμck?

[paulca]

I'm not going to preach to the choir here, but "leccy don gon expensif don it"

Maybe I am preaching to the choir, but...

Forget the momentary devices like kettles, coffee machines, etc.
Track the high power items.  Tumble drier, oven, electric hob, microwave etc. etc.

The thing is, as I found, while the bullshit you get in the media on "standby power" is cringeworthy and usually highly inaccurate, the reality of "It all adds up" is a genuine factor.

So... I invested in monitoring plugs and plugged different "device groups" into them and monitored them for (by now over a month). 

By device group I basically mean a 4 way power bar extension or a chain of same for N devices.  (UK fused 13Amp spec at each bar and plug).  In the case of something like the bedroom that's 3 plugs.  In the office, there are 2 buses with about a dozen on one, and half a dozen on the other.  The office has a total of about 8 x 4 way or 6 way extensions.  The non-essential stuff which isn't adverse to being switched off and on and stuff I will never need to run if I'm not present, is on that bus.  Lights, monitors, speakers, most of the electronics bench.  The other bus has essential stuff.  It's plug has a bit of label tape sticking the power switch down into ON that says, "NO!!!!! ANY OTHER PLUG" on it.  It runs the PCs and network gear... and a sneak plug for the electronics bench.

-----------------------------------

"OMG!  THIS GI! Had NO IDEA! grumble grumble"....   yes, these cheap smart plugs are absolutely inaccurate.  Yes, they all actually add a few deciwatts to the mix.  Yes they are point of failure and a point of potential fire.  ABSOLUTELY YES, their 13 amp rating will take me to open them and see for myself how they are wires and the ratings before I would trust them with half of that.  None of that matters.  Except maybe the fire hazard if one exists in the units I use.

USA viewers:  "Don't cascade, tree and chain extensions.  It's dangerous."  Dude.... UK plugs, fuses in all of them.  The WHOLE chain if it was 100 long of 4 way power adapters is STILL fused by a single 13amp fuse.  Obviously there is risk of miss-inserted and partially inserted plugs.  These in the past have melted extensions on me when running high power items.   NONE of the devices I connect to these plugs consume more than 500W.

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The thing it shows it's exactly unexpected, "things add up".  However, seeing it in hard data on your screen every morning when you log in with your coffee makes it hard to ignore.

Multiplying things run time by they output, even to 1 significant figures should show you where you NEED to look is...

Medium power items that run for long (or 100%) duty cycles.

I identified 3 problem areas of standby over use.

1.  Office.
2.  Living room.
3.  Bedroom.

(Why not the obvious kitchen?  Because if you need, you need.  They are momentary, choice items.)

These rooms are "in use" or "not in use" and while somethings need standby power to retain their state and config, most don't. 


----------------

Numbers....

My living room media centre plug was pulling something like 30W idle.  Nobody in the room.  That was standby/active power for:
* 55" TV
* Dell Optiplex SFF desktop in standby.
* network "smart" switch

I would often just walk out of the room, knowing the PC will time out and black the screen after 5 minutes, the TV will time out and go standby after 5 minutes of that.... the PC will go to sleep after a total of 20 minutes elapsed.  It turns out that returns the room power consumption slowly down from 160W to 30W. 

Still,
30W * 24h = 720wh 
Not a flies dick off a kwh.  (Fly from Boogie nights)

kwh = £0.39p UK as of 1st Oct.

It starts to matter.  That's compared to last year at £0.16 on a good tarrif.

What prompted me to open this discussion and probably accept the heat, is because....  an examplar.

I got a new, cheap ass, chinese OSC.  Tested it, it's as shit as expected, but ... also better than requirements.  So fine.  It say 100Mhz, it struggles above 10.  I don't need more than 1.  It consumes 7W.  So leaving it sitting there displaying pretty pictures for no reason is costing...

7W * 24h=168Wh / day.  It's still 8p per day.

(Mine is connected to the off grid 12V solar system so irrelevant for me)

I mean if you look at the things you leave on in the lab, you can justify they individually, they consume a dozen or two watt hours a day.

I'm saying if you pay attention to all of them and find ways to segment things into "needs to be on all the time" and "can be turned off as suits", you can half your "base load".

[paulca]

The whole post and (due to red wine) I forgot the most important load which seems to be in the middle field.  It's too small to care, but it tends to run nearly permanently.

Computers, PCs.

If you have a weedly little desktop that people insult on forums, you are going to do well.

If you have a modern, baller gaming PC, you aren't.

Real stats:

5800X 32Gb  (idle) 3080, 850W PSU  --- on line 100W-120W.

Dell Optiplex 70xx i7 with 8Gb RAN and onboard gfx = 20W
Work laptop 18W.

If you run any of those 24/7, you need to start calculating the cost.  The price of leccy has more than doubled a lot of "don't care" items will now have migrated into the "should" care category.

/red wine (sorry).

Overall with little inconvenience I have lower my "base load" in the office from 260W to 140W and my house wide "skeleton base power" from close to 500W to more like 260W.  Over night power from 300+W to 120W.

[jpanhalt]

If you think that's bad.  I have a second home that is now vacant and for sale.  About 8 weeks ago, a main water line was replaced in the neighborhood.  After restarting the water, a toilet in a room I hadn't been in for ages got stuck in "on."  Unlike the usual running toilet, there was no noise and no ripples in the water bowl.  The overflow tube was simply running continuously.  The penultimate month's water bill was $60+.  I investigated and fixed the problem, but not soon enough.  Last month's water bill was $97 for 1.3 MCF.  Wow.   As of today, there has been no water usage since the last reading.

I am amazed that that one could fill a small swimming pool through a straw, so to speak.

[Electroplated]

I had my WTF moment a few months ago when I discovered my new Siglent scope has 'soft off' and not a real power switch, according to my tplink watt meter, it uses 3 to 4 watts when off by its power button, unlike everything else in my lab that has a real power switch, its something I over looked during my research on it, if I would have known about it then no way on earth would have bought it.

Other things that are now turned off, the new washing machine that goes into sleep mode after playing a fancy tune, using 8 watts, the 2 watt cooker clock and the fake electric fire that used half a zillion LED's and a motor to produce a crap flame effect, when on it used 40 watts just for the flame effect, it was rapidly replaced with a more wallet friendly led effect using fading and flickering LED's, and some ceramic logs, it now uses 5 watts and is actually better to look at and far brighter.

PIR outside lighting, we have four of them, 2 are being replaced soon because when off during the day both of them consume 4 watts each, the other two, a different brand use 1 watt.

My beloved CCTV set up had to be trimmed down, off went two cameras at 5 watts each and out went the recorder because it was using 60 watts, its been replaced with a SFF dell and blue iris, its consumption is now 22 watts, it also serves as a small server, the PC, router and switch run off the same power supply, shaving a few watts off individual power supplies.

Yes, every little thing does add up and I am glad I am not the only one who noticed this, in fact I think I have reduced the over all consumption so much I can afford a small bottle of red wine to celebrate !

[Monkeh]

There's a reason I'm ebay hunting for equipment to replace my VM host. 155W idle at 33.86p/kWh hurts.

[Gyro]

I'm still trying to acount for the parasitic power drain since we had a smart meter installed a couple of years ago. I went completely paranoid at first about those 10s of Watts. I still prowl around in the middle of the night occasionally when I get an idea (even the RCBOs in the consumer unit run warm!).

Standby current goes up with every smart or energy saving gadget, there are so many that need to be permanently powered to maintain functionality. I'm just glad I don't have any wireless chargers.

[Kasper]

When you turn off all your little 'heaters', does your heating bill go up? Or for those in warmer climates, does your a/c bill go down?

[themadhippy]

I still prowl around in the middle of the night occasionally when I get an idea (even the RCBOs in the consumer unit run warm!)

If you fit the new all singing all dancing wylex mcb-rcd-afd  your using roughly 6  kw/h per year,per device before you even switch the kettle on

[Electroplated]

There's a reason I'm ebay hunting for equipment to replace my VM host. 155W idle at 33.86p/kWh hurts.

I grabbed a HP Elite 8300 SFF PC i5-3470 to use as my cctv / server, I'm used a SFF dell with the same cpu but the HP would be better due it its intel nic. ( I use pfsense for a firewall and its quirky with realtek nics ) Not sure what your needs are for VM but there are a few Elite 8300 SFF on fleabay, they make decent servers and are pretty quite so long as the psu is dust free, the front cover / bezel clips off and can be fitted with filter foam to keep a lot of dust out, air runs from front to back on them.

[Bud]

I'm still trying to acount for the parasitic power drain since we had a smart meter installed a couple of years ago. I went completely paranoid at first about those 10s of Watts. I still prowl around in the middle of the night occasionally when I get an idea (even the RCBOs in the consumer unit run warm!).

Standby current goes up with every smart or energy saving gadget, there are so many that need to be permanently powered to maintain functionality. I'm just glad I don't have any wireless chargers.

Do not forget GFCI wall outlets (they have LEDs) , outlets with USB chargers, bathroom fan switches with timers, that sort of things. Death by a thousand of cuts.

[Electroplated]

I still prowl around in the middle of the night occasionally when I get an idea (even the RCBOs in the consumer unit run warm!)

If you fit the new all singing all dancing wylex mcb-rcd-afd  your using roughly 6  kw/h per year,per device before you even switch the kettle on

That's one reason I am holding off having a newer CU fitted, I'm a retired electrician and don't always agree new ideas are good ideas. I did rewire my own home before I retired, the cables I replaced where not even 10 years old but had reasonably low insulation resistance, badly installed, pulled tight around corners and half of it was imported junk that suffered the infernal green goo problem caused by cheap pvc reacting with the copper and moisture I thought I was going crazy because the entire power consumption dropped a little, well of course it would, it was the same as having 4 x 1 meg resistors in parallel across the supply.

[Electroplated]

When you turn off all your little 'heaters', does your heating bill go up? Or for those in warmer climates, does your a/c bill go down?

Over here when we notice the effect of turning off mini room heaters the men put on thicker socks and some of the less hardier women stop shaving their legs 

[unknownparticle]

Another little rogue power munching device is, or potentially is depending on the type you have fitted, is the central heating pump. I had a problem with mine last season, it had gone noisy so needed replacement. When I took the old, I mean OLD, as in 20+ years old, Grundfos pump out I was horrified to see that it was rated at 120 watts!!. It was a single speed non modulating pump, so when it was on it was consuming the full 120 watts.  So, the replacement was a smart pump with loads of settings depending on the type of system in use. For me that was 35 watts max and modulating, so sometimes less.  That was last year, so I'm bl00dy glad I discovered that with the situation we have now!

I've also stopped using my desktop PC, now use a laptop, and I'm going to stop even using that and go to a Raspi 400, which uses about 4 watts!!  Plus the monitor of course.

I will have to cut WAY back on messing with my high power PSU's,  I have some that are 1KW plus, so load testing those at full power is no longer viable!  The biggest offender is my Farnell H30-100, which is upto 30 volts and 100 amps, 3KW is just not on just for fun!  Fcuk Put1n, the b4stard, messing up our recreation!

[nali]

What about those natty little in home displays you get to tell you how much money you're saving with your smart meter? (according to the sales propoganda)

[SiliconWizard]

Yeah?

[Gyro]

What about those natty little in home displays you get to tell you how much money you're saving with your smart meter? (according to the sales propoganda)

At least that has the decency to blank its display at night, it must save all of 100mW. 

To be fair, the guy who installed the meter said we could unplug it and chuck it in a drawer. It would probably help with the paranoia too!

[Electroplated]

Another little rogue power munching device is, or potentially is depending on the type you have fitted, is the central heating pump. I had a problem with mine last season, it had gone noisy so needed replacement. When I took the old, I mean OLD, as in 20+ years old, Grundfos pump out I was horrified to see that it was rated at 120 watts!!. It was a single speed non modulating pump, so when it was on it was consuming the full 120 watts.  So, the replacement was a smart pump with loads of settings depending on the type of system in use. For me that was 35 watts max and modulating, so sometimes less.  That was last year, so I'm bl00dy glad I discovered that with the situation we have now!

I've also stopped using my desktop PC, now use a laptop, and I'm going to stop even using that and go to a Raspi 400, which uses about 4 watts!!  Plus the monitor of course.

I will have to cut WAY back on messing with my high power PSU's,  I have some that are 1KW plus, so load testing those at full power is no longer viable!  The biggest offender is my Farnell H30-100, which is upto 30 volts and 100 amps, 3KW is just not on just for fun!  Fcuk Put1n, the b4stard, messing up our recreation!

Old diverter valves tend to use a fair bit as well, people don't usually consider the cost of those running, its the gas they consider.

I've just finished yet another bench psu, not a new design, a rebuild of one I designed 40 years ago, doing a full load test for 24 hours seemed a good idea, that is 150w plus for a whole day !  I have a few bench supplies but they all need to boot up and be twiddled with, most times I just need instant on and simple volt and current controls.

[Electroplated]

What about those natty little in home displays you get to tell you how much money you're saving with your smart meter? (according to the sales propoganda)

At least that has the decency to blank its display at night, it must save all of 100mW. 

To be fair, the guy who installed the meter said we could unplug it and chuck it in a drawer. It would probably help with the paranoia too!

We will eventually reach a point where these little helpful gadgets will begin to use more energy than we are saving, they show us whats using what, great but the people who invented them never took people like us into account, we use them to hunt every last watt of waste until the day arrives where the last watt to save is the one the little energy monitor is using.

I have a junk box filled them, some I was sent by the companies but most where donated from people who never used them, its a pity LCD's can not act as little solar cells like LED's can, other wise I would wire them all together and collect some free solar, it could charge the battery on the led camping light I will be using if prices go up any further.

[james_s]

Other things that are now turned off, the new washing machine that goes into sleep mode after playing a fancy tune, using 8 watts, the 2 watt cooker clock and the fake electric fire that used half a zillion LED's and a motor to produce a crap flame effect, when on it used 40 watts just for the flame effect, it was rapidly replaced with a more wallet friendly led effect using fading and flickering LED's, and some ceramic logs, it now uses 5 watts and is actually better to look at and far brighter.

The whole point of an electric fire is to produce heat. All of the energy going into those zillion LEDs turns into heat, so you're not really saving anything by replacing it. Unless that is you only want the fake fire effect and don't care about actually heating the room.

[SiliconWizard]

Oh and saving a few W will save your life and the planet. Yeah, really.

[Monkeh]

There's a reason I'm ebay hunting for equipment to replace my VM host. 155W idle at 33.86p/kWh hurts.

I grabbed a HP Elite 8300 SFF PC i5-3470 to use as my cctv / server, I'm used a SFF dell with the same cpu but the HP would be better due it its intel nic. ( I use pfsense for a firewall and its quirky with realtek nics ) Not sure what your needs are for VM but there are a few Elite 8300 SFF on fleabay, they make decent servers and are pretty quite so long as the psu is dust free, the front cover / bezel clips off and can be fitted with filter foam to keep a lot of dust out, air runs from front to back on them.

Tad too crusty, but right idea.

[Ed.Kloonk]

Oh and saving a few W will save your life and the planet. Yeah, really.

Every watt is sacred.

I remember ads on TV telling us to burn power like fools.

[Kasper]

When you turn off all your little 'heaters', does your heating bill go up? Or for those in warmer climates, does your a/c bill go down?

Over here when we notice the effect of turning off mini room heaters the men put on thicker socks and some of the less hardier women stop shaving their legs 

Any good sock stocks out there?  I think sellers of sweaters, tea, and similar items might do well this winter.

[Electroplated]

When you turn off all your little 'heaters', does your heating bill go up? Or for those in warmer climates, does your a/c bill go down?

Over here when we notice the effect of turning off mini room heaters the men put on thicker socks and some of the less hardier women stop shaving their legs 

Any good sock stocks out there?  I think sellers of sweaters, tea, and similar items might do well this winter.

I'm going to do well this year that's for sure, all those little bits of fleece I collected from farm fences over the last year will be turned into socks and bobble hats, teasel and card the wool, spin it to thread then onto the wooden knitting contraption, then sell them on fleabay.

[Electroplated]

Other things that are now turned off, the new washing machine that goes into sleep mode after playing a fancy tune, using 8 watts, the 2 watt cooker clock and the fake electric fire that used half a zillion LED's and a motor to produce a crap flame effect, when on it used 40 watts just for the flame effect, it was rapidly replaced with a more wallet friendly led effect using fading and flickering LED's, and some ceramic logs, it now uses 5 watts and is actually better to look at and far brighter.

The whole point of an electric fire is to produce heat. All of the energy going into those zillion LEDs turns into heat, so you're not really saving anything by replacing it. Unless that is you only want the fake fire effect and don't care about actually heating the room.

We sat around this fire last year and we still got frostbite, we even tried turning it on to no avail. Keep in mind this fake fire was to create a cheap illusion of a fire, not warm up anything, we burn wood for that, we did try burning peat one time but he didn't burn that much.