Author Topic: [Solved - Valley Girl] What, or where from is this way of speaking, please?  (Read 2273 times)

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Online RoGeorge

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As a non native English speaker, I am asking this questions here just because Google didn't gave me any clear answers.  No clue where from did this type of speaking is coming from.

Is it a regionalism, or is it pop culture, maybe just fashion in words, or maybe is a natural evolution of English language?

I am asking about that way of speaking with a lot of unnecessary "like" words.  Sometimes the unnecessary "like" is followed by a phrase.  For me this is a way of speaking of "future to be" prom queens, usually spoiled rich girl, seen in some high school comedy movies.  "He was like ..., and I was like ..." an so on.  Sometimes followed by the word "hashtag" but this is only in movies, didn't see the hashtag used too often in real life.  In real life, this way of talking with "like" is not specific only to high school girls only.  Many seem to speak that way, no mater the sex or the age.

Many times the "like" word is there for no reason, without being followed by a comparison sentence, like the "f0cking" word is used in some movies almost everywhere.

Those who use "like" very often also have a tendency to use other unnecessary words: "literally", "basically", "totally", "you know", yet these are not used as often as the word "like". "Like" seems to beat them all.

I don't look for a rant, or for blame, just trying to understand what is this way of talking, where did it came from, when it is used, does it have a meaning, does it have a name?  Things like this.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 07:44:03 am by RoGeorge »
 

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Offline IanB

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Re: What are, or where from are the "likenians", please?
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2018, 09:46:47 pm »
I don't look for a rant, or for blame, just trying to understand what is this way of talking, where did it came from, when it is used, does it have a meaning, does it have a name?  Things like this.

"Valley Girl", San Fernando Valley, California, 1980's:

https://youtu.be/ZL6XBB-umc0
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Offline Howardlong

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Re: What are, or where from are the "likenians", please?
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2018, 10:00:03 pm »
It’s bad enough in spoken language, but when you see it in writing it’s, like, what the actual ****?

More seriously, it doesn’t come across well to your average native English speaker, although many of us have inadvertently used it as a filler even a couple of decades ago, although not to the same extent as it is nowadays. I remember an old boss of mine using the word randomly at the end of sentences in the early 90s.

If you walked into a more formal situation such as an interview and spluttered “like” every other word, it wouldn’t work in your favour, like.
 
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Offline cdev

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Re: What are, or where from are the "likenians", please?
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2018, 10:37:57 pm »
There is a technical term thats commonly used "High Rising terminal" (or "uptalk") in the lingustics community for the use of a certain characteristic of speech, one version of it is so called 'ValSpeak', it's kind of ending modulation of speech, and it has academic papers written about it.
 Also articles in the popular media. Its been found in communities all around the globe.

Even in Australia.

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-28708526

Southern California, especially the huge belt of suburbs north of LA, seems to be a sort of crucible of slang. Its been that way for a while. That's not at all new.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 12:14:14 am by cdev »
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Offline basinstreetdesign

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Re: What are, or where from are the "likenians", please?
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2018, 10:44:54 pm »
I'm sure the psychologists could write a book on the subject, but as a layman who has been observing this trend for a few decades and wincing a lot it seems to me to be thus:

The word "like" stops the usual flow of language from the speaker.  In doing so the speaker has come to a point in the middle of a sentence where they are about to utter a profound concept and they are pausing, not only for effect, but to also focus attention on themselves.  And apparently it works since so many do it.

It's also used to change the narrative from explanation to demonstration.  When ever someone says: "He was , like,..." you know that they are about to perform an imitation of the subject as if they were in a stage play - another attention focusser.

But as far as serious situations go, as in an interview, Howardlong says,  its a losing gambit at worst and just a bd habit at best.  It makes the speaker seem just that much less intelligent.

I've made a habit of avoiding it ever since I was 17 when I realized this stuff, like.   ;)
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Offline sleemanj

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Re: What are, or where from are the "likenians", please?
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2018, 11:08:35 pm »
Valley Girl or Valspeak

Fun fact, it was one of the jive filters on the Amiga, along with Jive and Swedish Chef (Bork Bork Bork), and a couple of others as well, way back when I was a kid on IRC I wrote some AREXX to run my IRC messages from ACHAT into val/jive/chef speak before they got sent, kid me thought it was HILAAArious.

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Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: What are, or where from are the "likenians", please?
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2018, 02:44:04 am »
There are a lot of things going on here.  In spoken English I think one of those things is that "like" is being used as a filler, a way of avoiding silence while waiting for another thought to creep out of the recesses of a not overly well trained mind.  The sounds "mmm" and "uh" have also been used in the same role.

Once that is embedded in speech the written form follows from trying to write as you speak.
 
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Offline GK

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Re: What are, or where from are the "likenians", please?
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2018, 06:11:26 am »
This is a kind linguistic retardation that mostly effects the "fairer" sex. I think it stems mostly from personal esteem issues when there is a natural deficit of regulating sense upstairs. At risk of being branded a misogynist, I'll refrain from opining as to why.

It (thankfully) now seems to have been a passing fad down here, but for a period a few years ago it seemed that I couldn't shop or dine anywhere that female staff were present without a => 50% chance of encountering the deliberate infantile inflection. I mean literally only just one or two steps up from baby goo-goo-gaa-gaa talk, but from one strange adult to another, perceivably as a way of attempting to be all extra special and nice, like. This, more often that not, for some stupid reason, came with the additional irritation of the very last syllable of a spoken sentence (especially if it was a sentence posing a question) being raised by an octave or more.

« Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 06:22:24 am by GK »
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Online GreyWoolfe

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Re: What are, or where from are the "likenians", please?
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2018, 05:45:00 pm »
I will admit I will occasionally use uh or umm when my mouth outruns my brain.  I have never used it in text.  The only time I type mmmmm is if it is followed by donut.  Mmmmmmmmm, donut, must go to Dunkin'.  Where are the car keys.  Sorry, lost track there.

By the way, it doesn't just affect the fairer sex, I have heard it from both sides.  Thankfully, I have not heard it whilst dining.  If I experienced what you did, GK, I would probably ask for a different server.
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Online chris_leyson

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Re: What are, or where from are the "likenians", please?
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2018, 06:16:12 pm »
Frank Zappa sprang to mind  :)
 
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Offline helius

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Re: What are, or where from are the "likenians", please?
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2018, 06:36:07 pm »
Like as the waves make towards the pebbled shore,
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Online RoGeorge

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Re: [Solved - Valley Girl] What are, or where from are the "likenians", please?
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2018, 08:00:21 pm »
"Valley" was the keyword I didn't know, now I can google for details.

Maybe it was started by LA Valley Girls San Fernando Valley Girls, but nowadays this way of speaking (and sometimes writing, too) is spreading fast no matter the location, outside US too, and no matter if boys or girls.  The singing accent is not so strong outside US, but it's still there.

I was asking because only recently I became aware of this speaking plague, and since then I am detecting it involuntarily everywhere.  Very distracting and annoying.  I need to keep removing all the stuffing words from one's speak in order to find out the content.  A continuous lure for the listener to sing along instead of thinking independently.  The hardest to ignore is the "you know" stuffing, because it either makes the listener to feel stupid when doesn't know, or it pushes to agree when the listener disagrees.

Since the roots of valley speaking are decades ago, most probably it won't go away very soon, I guess I'll just get used to it.  ^-^

It's clear now, thank you all.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 09:13:12 pm by RoGeorge »
 

Offline helius

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Re: [Solved - Valley Girl] What are, or where from are the "likenians", please?
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2018, 08:04:13 pm »
The hardest to ignore is the "you know" stuffing, because it either makes the listener to feel stupid when doesn't know, or it pushes to agree when the listener disagrees.
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Offline maginnovision

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Re: [Solved - Valley Girl] What are, or where from are the "likenians", please?
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2018, 08:50:43 pm »
"Valley" was the keyword I didn't know, now I can google for details.

Maybe it was started by LA Valley Girls, but nowadays this way of speaking (and sometimes writing, too) is spreading fast no matter the location, outside US too, and no matter if boys or girls.  The singing accent is not so strong outside US, but it's still there.

I was asking because only recently I became aware of this speaking plague, and since then I am detecting it involuntarily everywhere.  Very distracting and annoying.  I need to keep removing all the stuffing words from one's speak in order to find out the content.  A continuous lure for the listener to sing along instead of thinking independently.  The hardest to ignore is the "you know" stuffing, because it either makes the listener to feel stupid when doesn't know, or it pushes to agree when the listener disagrees.

Since the roots of valley speaking are decades ago, most probably it won't go away very soon, I guess I'll just get used to it.  ^-^

It's clear now, thank you all.

Just to clarify it's the San Fernando valley.
 

Offline Tom45

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Re: [Solved - Valley Girl] What are, or where from are the "likenians", please?
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2018, 05:19:10 am »
I have two nieces, ages 31 and 33. Both very smart college graduates. Neither one ever lived in any part of California.

The older one tends to use like several times in every sentence. The younger one not at all.

It drives me crazy, but in the interests of family harmony I don't bring the subject up. I have no theories on why one is so stricken while the other one isn't.
 

Offline GK

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Re: [Solved - Valley Girl] What are, or where from are the "likenians", please?
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2018, 06:25:23 am »
By the way, it doesn't just affect the fairer sex,


I said mostly.


A continuous lure for the listener to sing along instead of thinking independently.  The hardest to ignore is the "you know" stuffing, because it either makes the listener to feel stupid when doesn't know, or it pushes to agree when the listener disagrees.


In general, the strongest bonds in human relations are made from affirmations of self-worth; basically, a mutual assuaging of each others prejudices and insecurities. When someone takes you on as a friend there is largely subconscious, perhaps congenital expectation that in your view of things you will be openly receptive to your new friends influence. It is unnatural and an offense to behave or respond otherwise. 

Should it be that you have an unusually strong mind of you own, take some time to reflect upon just how many times, for the sake of congeniality, even in your closest relations, that you are forced by necessity to bite your tongue so as not to reveal your true feelings; both on and not on the things that aren't stupidly trivial.
Try to quantify just how much of yourself; of who or what you are, is kept hidden and then, as a necessary exercise in self-flagellation, think long, hard and honestly about exactly what even your closest acquaintances might in reality think of you if you were to suddenly shed your timidity. A sense of the shallowness of human relations in general might suddenly hit you like a freight train.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2018, 07:24:58 am by GK »
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Online Zero999

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Re: [Solved - Valley Girl] What are, or where from are the "likenians", please?
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2018, 10:22:22 am »
"Valley" was the keyword I didn't know, now I can google for details.

Maybe it was started by LA Valley Girls San Fernando Valley Girls, but nowadays this way of speaking (and sometimes writing, too) is spreading fast no matter the location, outside US too, and no matter if boys or girls.  The singing accent is not so strong outside US, but it's still there.

I was asking because only recently I became aware of this speaking plague, and since then I am detecting it involuntarily everywhere.  Very distracting and annoying.  I need to keep removing all the stuffing words from one's speak in order to find out the content.  A continuous lure for the listener to sing along instead of thinking independently.  The hardest to ignore is the "you know" stuffing, because it either makes the listener to feel stupid when doesn't know, or it pushes to agree when the listener disagrees.

Since the roots of valley speaking are decades ago, most probably it won't go away very soon, I guess I'll just get used to it.  ^-^

It's clear now, thank you all.
When I read the thread's title I thought it was about Welsh, as I've never heard of the term used to describe a variant of American English.

Words and phrases such as "basically" and "do ya know wha' I mean" are more common where I live, although I've head high rising terminal and "like" as well.

Does this really matter? How someone talks is influenced by their peers. Try to focus on the content, rather than than the superficial. I try to refrain from judging people for this sort of thing. Personally I find mumbling and speaking too quietly much more annoying as it's hard to understand, even if their accent is clear and they don't use slang or filler words.

No one speaks perfect English, because it doesn't exist. The language is continually changing and what may be deemed to be "correct" or "incorrect" use, at one time or by one group of people, will differ to the next.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2018, 10:26:12 am by Hero999 »
 
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Online SiliconWizard

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Re: [Solved - Valley Girl] What are, or where from are the "likenians", please?
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2018, 01:48:02 am »
Does this really matter? How someone talks is influenced by their peers. Try to focus on the content, rather than than the superficial. I try to refrain from judging people for this sort of thing.

Exactly... When I first read the thread's title I was like... :wtf:
 :-DD
 

Online RoGeorge

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Re: [Solved - Valley Girl] What, or where from is this way of speaking, please?
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2018, 08:14:39 am »
Does this really matter? How someone talks is influenced by their peers. Try to focus on the content, rather than than the superficial. I try to refrain from judging people for this sort of thing.

Exactly... When I first read the thread's title I was like... :wtf:
 :-DD

Title changed.

Maybe it's just me having a hard time time focusing on content during ValSpeak, but working on that.  :)

Offline Howardlong

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Re: [Solved - Valley Girl] What, or where from is this way of speaking, please?
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2018, 09:45:36 am »
That’s the point, if the communication becomes disrupted to the point of irritatation then the content will be lost. It’s like listening to a record with a bad scratch on it, for those of us who remember.

It’s the same with wrtten grammar and spelling, both of which I am becoming increasingly bad at! (Frustratingly on screen keyboards and autocorrection are not helping).

 

Offline KJDS

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Re: [Solved - Valley Girl] What, or where from is this way of speaking, please?
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2018, 09:39:08 pm »
I too thought that this thread would be about those delightful ladies, (and I use the term ladies in the loosest possible sense) that lived in the valleys north of Cardiff

Offline coppercone2

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Re: [Solved - Valley Girl] What, or where from is this way of speaking, please?
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2018, 12:01:17 am »
do high elves talk like that?
 

Offline Back2Volts

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Re: [Solved - Valley Girl] What, or where from is this way of speaking, please?
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2018, 01:20:13 pm »
Talking about current trends, what has become a bit irritating to me, is the pervasive use of "basically" as an opening to an answer. 
 

Online Bud

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Re: [Solved - Valley Girl] What, or where from is this way of speaking, please?
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2018, 02:06:34 pm »
We had a former Coca Cola executive who said "you know..." every 3 words
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