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What are your thoughts on STEM education in schools? Good, bad and ugly?
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EEVblog:

--- Quote from: R4T on February 23, 2020, 09:54:44 am ---[/li][li]Show students the excitement and they will do STEM.

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A percentage of them will do STEM. That's just human nature.
coppice:

--- Quote from: R4T on February 23, 2020, 09:54:44 am ---When do you feel they trashed A-levels?  And how?

Are they too easy?

My A-levels (1983) were a walk in the park compared to my Dad's. The ones I teach have ranged from more challenging than those I did to significantly easier. I would say that the Physics I teach is currently marginally tougher in terms of content and volume than my own A-level.

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I took my A-levels in 1973. The first A-levels were (I think) in 1948. In preparing for the exams we went through past papers back to 1948, and the standard was very consistent. Maths hadn't changes at all. There were separate modern maths A-levels then, so there had been no reason to alter the traditional maths course. Physics was pretty much the same. The chemistry course had changed quite a bit, to reflect the massive changes in organic chemistry (both life sciences an polymers) over that period. I think the breadth and depth were about the same, though. When I looked at A-level papers a decade later (about the time you took your A-levels) the curriculum had changed quite a lot, and the depth of the questions asked had greatly reduced. Changing the curriculum was probably a good thing, but they had taken out a lot more than they put in, so the overall courses had been dumbed down.

Recently, in helping my son prepare for A-levels, I was shocked at how little real understanding is needed to answer most of the questions. There are certainly questions where you need to break something down, and apply 2 or 3 separate pieces of knowledge to solve the parts of the problem (i.e. do real problem solving), but too many of the answers merely require recitation. The maths papers feel more like the O-level papers of my day. With the huge expansion of education up to 18, its understandable that A-levels had to change to accomodate a broader range of abilities, but where are the courses to challenge and develop the brightest students?


--- Quote from: R4T on February 23, 2020, 09:54:44 am ---Do they not discriminate adequately?

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I'm not sure what you mean by that?


--- Quote from: R4T on February 23, 2020, 09:54:44 am ---This depends on your point of view: is an A-level a selection tool or a measure of knowledge and competence? Many teachers would argue that 'criterion referencing' - a measure of knowledge and competence - is fairest for the students, though 'norm referencing' has a role in maintaining the standards year on year.  The effect of criterion referencing is that students believe that working hard gets good grades, so many of them work hard... and get good grades.  A-levels aren't and should not be an intelligence test, though it seems to me that the harder students work at them, the more intelligent they get.

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The current A-levels seem to be exams for the people who merely do OK in the GCSE exams to take 2 years later. They aren't suitable for the brightest students, as they provide no challenge for them, and leave them poorly educated as they move to university. Several university staff from the UK have told me of remedial classes for the brightest students,t to cover material which has been dropped from the school curriculum in recent years.


--- Quote from: R4T on February 23, 2020, 09:54:44 am ---In the end, I would argue that the problem here is not one dimensional: 

* In the UK, the prospects for people with STEM qualifications are a hard sell in an economy that is 80% service based - where is the draw into science and engineering?

* We also operate in a political culture were senior politicians can say 'I am rubbish at maths' and people laughingly accept that rather than feeling sorry for their embarrassment.

* Show students the excitement and they will do STEM.

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Most people in the UK have always been proud of their inability. Its a weird national trait. However, we used to have a parallel strand of people who just got on with doing valuable things. This idea of the economy being 80% service based is made to sound like the UK has adapted to change, and now has a solid service base. It hasn't. Its still on a path of rapid decline, with the 20% of the economy that is not services still fading away. In the 80s US politicians used to love telling the populous that it wasn't worth saving low value jobs in the US, and how the US would keep the high value ones. That worked out brilliantly. The young people in Asia who got most of those low value jobs are now the majority of the world's highly experienced middle aged people capable of doing the high value jobs.

I agree that its hard to attract people in the UK to STEM subjects, and we probably shouldn't. There are too few jobs needing those skills, and its hard to go to countries where STEM prospects are better if you don't have some years of industrial experience in your home country first. However, whatever areas the country tries to participate in need people who have been challenged and stretched by their education to be the best they can be.
frogg:
I will say one thing: I think it was a mistake to name it STEM. Sure, it's catchy marketing, but it's out of order. It should be MSET (in terms of academic foundationalism.)

In fact, I would go so far as to say, it should just be MSE. 'Technology' or 'Tech' is of dubious academic value, in my humble opinion.
R4T:
Hi Coppice,

I use 'discrimination' in the technical sense of 'revealing different levels of skill/knowledge'.  There is a faction who seem to believe that the only role of an exam is to separate the 'wheat from the chaff' - I would take a more positive spin and say the role of the exams is to recognise a level of attainment.

I would suggest that good students get a richer diet than just the A-level textbook/specification in most A-level teacher's classrooms. I certainly have students who get good grades but do not sound like they have a sound grasp when you talk to them.  I also have students who genuinely link ideas and come to a deeper insight.  They can write about it and talk about it.  The A-level results seem to me to reflect that better understanding, in the end.

I suspect you and I would be singing from the same sheet on the 80% services thing. If the economy is to serve the people rather than vice-versa, the UK model is completely out of balance.

I will still work on encouraging people into STEM. But where I work, the demand is still high.
coppice:

--- Quote from: R4T on February 23, 2020, 07:00:06 pm ---Hi Coppice,

I use 'discrimination' in the technical sense of 'revealing different levels of skill/knowledge'.  There is a faction who seem to believe that the only role of an exam is to separate the 'wheat from the chaff' - I would take a more positive spin and say the role of the exams is to recognise a level of attainment.

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The pass/fail idea is appropriate, even mandatory, for many tests - a simple case being a driving test. These tests are purely a gating function, and breaking down results any further may not be in anyone's interests. Pass/fail is really inappropriate for something like A-levels, because they have many uses, with different gating thresholds. A pass for getting into a technician course is rather different from a pass to get into a top university, but A-level results are the basis for both these things.


--- Quote from: R4T on February 23, 2020, 07:00:06 pm ---I would suggest that good students get a richer diet than just the A-level textbook/specification in most A-level teacher's classrooms. I certainly have students who get good grades but do not sound like they have a sound grasp when you talk to them.  I also have students who genuinely link ideas and come to a deeper insight.  They can write about it and talk about it.  The A-level results seem to me to reflect that better understanding, in the end.

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Of course the brightest students quickly master material that doesn't push them very much. and have plenty of time to do additional things. The problem is that without being driven by tough goals few people develop their own. When they finally come face to face with the best and brightest in the world, they will be poorly prepared. I've seen many people who were convinced by people around them that they were top notch be really crushed by meeting people who truly excel. People who might be no more inherently capable, but whose practical capabilities have been better nurtured.


--- Quote from: R4T on February 23, 2020, 07:00:06 pm ---I suspect you and I would be singing from the same sheet on the 80% services thing. If the economy is to serve the people rather than vice-versa, the UK model is completely out of balance.

I will still work on encouraging people into STEM. But where I work, the demand is still high.

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