Author Topic: what brand of cutters do you like for electronics  (Read 26329 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline slburris

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 520
what brand of cutters do you like for electronics
« on: August 19, 2010, 01:52:27 pm »
What kind of ESD safe flush cutters do you like?

I ran across a few brands of flush cutters being mentioned on the TekScopes list,
none of which I've ever heard of, probably because I'm not exposed to them in
the US.

I have the Xcelite 170D.

From TekScopes, at 6X the price of the Xcelite is the Knipex 78 03 125 ESD.

http://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1216&L=1&page=group_detail&parentID=1367&groupID=1485

Also mentioned were cutters from Piergiacomi:

http://www.piergiacomi.com/

I know the value of having good tools, but are these worth what they cost?  Any other favorite options?

Scott
 

Offline allanw

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 343
    • Electronoblog
Re: what brand of cutters do you like for electronics
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2010, 03:06:09 pm »
I bought a few of these from this seller:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Xuron-9200-micro-shear-flush-cutter-used-/270611071788?pt=BI_Electrical_Equipment_Tools

They work pretty well for the price. I was going to suggest them to that poster but he does not ship outside the US.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11993
  • Country: gb
    • Mike's Electric Stuff
Re: what brand of cutters do you like for electronics
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2010, 03:15:31 pm »
I like the Lindstrom 8148, which are brilliant when in good condiiton, although I've had a couple of pairs that weren't ground very well (may have been bad regrinds - I think they came from ebay..)
Whatever brand, you absolutely must have a pair of flush-cut cutters, not bevelled, as bevelled profiles are useless for stripping.
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 3525
  • Country: gr
  • User is banned.
    • Honda AX-1 rebuild
Re: what brand of cutters do you like for electronics
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2010, 05:19:16 pm »
I like to believe that the conclusion of this mini review are more than helpful ...
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=337.0

I think ,that Dave must transfer it too , at the User reviews section.
 

Offline slburris

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 520
Re: what brand of cutters do you like for electronics
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2010, 09:44:12 pm »
So I care mostly about precision cutting of leads on PCBs, not cutting RG58, UTP for ethernet, house wiring or the like.
The other thread seems to say nothing about how ESD safe these tools are.

It seems most of the chatter I see here and on mailing lists I'm on are talking about the
Knipex and Lindstrom cutters.

Scott

 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11993
  • Country: gb
    • Mike's Electric Stuff
Re: what brand of cutters do you like for electronics
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2010, 09:52:12 pm »
The other thread seems to say nothing about how ESD safe these tools are.
ESD safe is pretty low on the priority list - it's hard to imagine a scenario where non 'safe' cutters could pose an increased hazard to anything.

Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 3525
  • Country: gr
  • User is banned.
    • Honda AX-1 rebuild
Re: what brand of cutters do you like for electronics
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2010, 10:07:39 pm »
ESD safe is pretty low on the priority list - it's hard to imagine a scenario where non 'safe' cutters could pose an increased hazard to anything.



I agree ...  all cutters has insulated grips ..  the ESD are just an specification.  
In praxis anything at this category  does the job.  
« Last Edit: August 19, 2010, 10:09:55 pm by Kiriakos-GR »
 

alm

  • Guest
Re: what brand of cutters do you like for electronics
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2010, 10:14:58 pm »
The ESD ones probably aren't that insulated (resistance in the megaohm range), but I agree that this isn't too useful, it's probably more for labs that have a policy against any non-ESD-safe tools. Just like ESD-safe tweezers, regular tweezers are 100% metal, so I don't see how they can carry a charge.
 

Offline Zad

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1013
  • Country: gb
    • Digital Wizardry, Analogue Alchemy, Software Sorcery
Re: what brand of cutters do you like for electronics
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2010, 10:20:37 pm »
I mostly use Lindstrom 7190 micro side cutters, box jointed.

Offline slburris

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 520
Re: what brand of cutters do you like for electronics
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2010, 10:36:55 pm »
[ESD safe is pretty low on the priority list - it's hard to imagine a scenario where non 'safe' cutters could pose an increased hazard to anything.

Oh, say you are clipping the leads of a J-FET.

What then is the difference between Knipex 78 03 125 and 78 03 125 ESD?
Are you saying it's mostly a marketing invention than anything else?  Doesn't this
mean the cushions on the handles are at least slightly conductive?

Scott
 

Offline slburris

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 520
Re: what brand of cutters do you like for electronics
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2010, 10:38:47 pm »
This is kinda buried on the Knipex site, don't know how meaningful it is

Quote
When using pliers on components endangered by electrostatic discharge (ESDS - electro static discharge sensitive devices) relevant regulations and standards (e. g. IEC TR 61340-5, DIN EN 61340-5, SP Method 2472) require a controlled discharge of electric energy through the handles of such pliers. The KNIPEX Electronics Pliers in ESD version discharge the electrostatic energy correspondingly slowly and under control to protect endangered components.
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 29658
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: what brand of cutters do you like for electronics
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2010, 11:03:28 pm »
Considering how often side cutter go missing in a lab, the best one is the one you can find!
This is one of the few cases where I'd rather have 5 cheapies than one good one.

I agree, "ESD safe" is pretty much a crock, don't bother.

If they are fine enough to get in and cut SO IC legs I'm happy

Lindstrom are very nice.

Dave.
 

Offline McPete

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 163
  • Country: au
  • Layout Designer, AKA eCAD monkey
Re: what brand of cutters do you like for electronics
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2010, 01:35:32 am »
I agree with Dave, Lindstrom are pretty good, but the pricetag is a bit nuts!

If I may recommend, Wiha make some very nice cutters, and other tools. My toolkit is mostly Wiha. I have the ESD cutters because the local distributor spec'd them at no addional charge.

http://www.wihatools.com/500seri/568_Serie.htm
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11993
  • Country: gb
    • Mike's Electric Stuff
Re: what brand of cutters do you like for electronics
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2010, 08:15:24 am »
[ESD safe is pretty low on the priority list - it's hard to imagine a scenario where non 'safe' cutters could pose an increased hazard to anything.

Oh, say you are clipping the leads of a J-FET.
and...? Where does the charge come from? There will almost always be a 'soft' body discharge path - the metal of the cutters themselves won't have enough capacitance to hold a damaging level of charge.
Quote

What then is the difference between Knipex 78 03 125 and 78 03 125 ESD?
Are you saying it's mostly a marketing invention than anything else?
Yes
Quote
Doesn't this mean the cushions on the handles are at least slightly conductive?
Probably. But not very useful.

I suspected this all came about as there are occasions that you do want fully insulated  cutters, and someone decided that there must be an 'esd' version of everything.
It's mostly marketing, and as Dave says, for places that blindly follow an 'ESD-safe everything' policy regardless of actual need.

In a development environment, the only thing you should really pay attention to is to avoid floor coverings that are prone to generate static. Anything else is a waste of money.

Production environments are a little different as you have staff who are less knowledgeable and possible don't care as much, combined with  potential for expensive damage, but any engineer will be aware if they can feel static, and have the sense to touch something grounded before touching an expensive board.

Just wondering - does anyone here routinely wear a wriststrap ? I'd bet it's a small minority.

.and has anyone ever actually killed anything with static? I certanly haven't. PLenty of other ways, but not static. 
« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 08:18:11 am by mikeselectricstuff »
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Offline scrat

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 606
  • Country: it
Re: what brand of cutters do you like for electronics
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2010, 10:04:45 am »
A colleague and I use one of these
http://www.piergiacomiforniture.com/piergiacomi_forniture/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=54&Itemid=159.
They do well their job, and last for a while, but the choice is also because they are the ones you find at the shop (internet is not always the best solution due to delivery cost).
One machine can do the work of fifty ordinary men. No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man. - Elbert Hubbard
 

Offline DJPhil

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 511
Re: what brand of cutters do you like for electronics
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2010, 10:32:13 am »
Just wondering - does anyone here routinely wear a wriststrap ? I'd bet it's a small minority.

.and has anyone ever actually killed anything with static? I certanly haven't. PLenty of other ways, but not static.  

Definitely not routinely, but occasionally when handling ICs or small FETs. It's primarily habit from previous indoctrination in the computer world. I built computers at a plant nearby that was owned by Inacom, Compaq, and later HP, and they had the multimillion dollar anti-static floor, footstraps with mandatory testing, and all the goodies. It's much more important with moving conveyors and pneumatic switching everywhere, but I'll be they lost more money in the one pallet of computer monitors I saw drop from twenty feet up (forklift accident) than they ever did in ESD losses. Without those precautions, who knows?

I've personally killed two things with static that I'm almost sure was my fault, both were 30pin SIMMs (remember those?). I was helping a friend work through a backlog at the small repair business he owned, and I was still in high school at the time. I was testing SIMMs with a standalone memory tester both times, and though I never saw a spark I did feel myself build a charge while taking the two steps to the machine they were going into. Pulled from the system, tested good on the tester, right back into the machine, bad memory post alert that wasn't there before, back on the tester, tested bad. It's entirely possible that it could have been a fluke with the machine, the tester, or both.

Those two incidents aside I haven't ruined anything in a mysterious manner since, and it's been about fifteen years! I've let plenty of smoke out, but any suspected ESD deaths were ruled out. I tend to take the possibility seriously when I'm working with something I don't have a spare of, but other than that I play it fast and loose.

Just weighing in. :)

Edit: Alm's post reminded me to mention that all I use for ESD nowadays is a $7 wristband. I got one from 3M that had a cord with a banana plug and alligator clip adapter. I don't have a mat, but if I was working with more expensive parts I'd consider it. I agree with the cost/benefit approach of adopting cheap insurance when I can.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 11:00:02 am by DJPhil »
 

Offline lhc

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 40
Re: what brand of cutters do you like for electronics
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2010, 10:45:46 am »
I'm using Knipex cutters - after using them you will not want to use any other cutters. The SuperKnips have a nice slim but comfortable handle and the spring tension is ideal, tere are also other types with soft rubber cushion grips. You can get them with many types of hardeness, with flat spring holding the clipped wire, different coating etc. The same is true for Wiha - best screwdrivers especially SoftFinish type - best grips ever, they are so nice to the touch and feel very comfortable in hand. I get them from local Ebay-like site for less than normal but still they are woryth the full price.
 

alm

  • Guest
Re: what brand of cutters do you like for electronics
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2010, 10:51:13 am »
I'm also a Knipex fan, although I've heard good things about Lindstrom. I dislike cheap tools, they annoy be every time I use them, as opposed to expensive tools that only annoy me once, when I pay for them. I rarely lose a tool, but my bench is small enough that I'm often forced to clean up before starting something new.

I have two suspected ESD kills. One when I was troubleshooting a computer on the carpet. It behaved funny before, and it was dead after. But it might also have been flaky components. Another was with a memory module that was dead after installing it in another computer (though it did work properly before), but again, I didn't do a proper post-mortem to confirm ESD. The climate here is usually fairly humid and I never feel a shock at home, so I guess this environment is not very susceptible.

I use a wriststrap and ESD-safe mat when working on expensive stuff, because it's cheap insurance. And I do take care when handling CMOS circuits or power MOSFET's, not because I consider it a large risk, but because it's easy to avoid and may cost a lot of time troubleshooting. ESD isn't just instant death, it may also cause a shortened lifespan.

It doesn't make sense to spend a lot of money on ESD protection in a hobby environment in my opinion, the cost of the parts you handle in a year is just too low compared to a production environment. If you'd kill 1% of your parts, it wouldn't be a big deal. If some low-margin consumer electronics company has 1% (of total production) extra DOA/RMA, it might kill their margin.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 02:51:42 pm by alm »
 

Offline scrat

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 606
  • Country: it
Re: what brand of cutters do you like for electronics
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2010, 11:30:49 am »
The speech on ESD makes me remind of a cheap laser module I used. After a few years it was lying outside the circuit (leads shorted to prevent charge accumulation), I tried to use it once more, but it was very weak. Since I heard and read of heavy ESD problems about laser LEDs, I guess the cause could be that... Any other experiences?
One machine can do the work of fifty ordinary men. No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man. - Elbert Hubbard
 

Offline squeezee

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 47
Re: what brand of cutters do you like for electronics
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2010, 02:24:47 pm »
I've killed my fair share of electronics over the years (mainly PC components) either outright or with 'soft' failures. Sometimes it's a nice big spark but most of the time you'll never notice it, you absolutely cannot feel either the buildup or the discharge in most cases.

Basic protection of a wrist strap and (ideally) a mat is going to eliminate the largest source of static discharge (you). After that it's just diminishing returns, which as alm points out is rarely worth the investment as a hobbyist. (it's just not practical to try and eliminate the myriad of potential ESD threats in a home lab)

So far I've never seen an component failure caused by ESD that i could attribute to the tools rather than the technician.  Still, it's hard to resist buying the ESD handled versions when they're only a few bucks more ($3 difference for knipex). If only for the psychological effect. :D
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Banned!
  • Posts: 3525
  • Country: gr
  • User is banned.
    • Honda AX-1 rebuild
Re: what brand of cutters do you like for electronics
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2010, 04:45:14 pm »
So far I've never seen an component failure caused by ESD that i could attribute to the tools rather than the technician.  Still, it's hard to resist buying the ESD handled versions when they're only a few bucks more ($3 difference for knipex). If only for the psychological effect. :D

Yep , that my opinion too , after 26 years of experience, working with electronics.

But I will repeat my self , about the positive feeling that the HURON 9200 left to me.
The large opening of the jaws ,  makes it unbeatable.

I have both  ( HURON & Knipex ) , I like both, they are the crop of the cream.
But if some one forced me to keep only one .... I would chose the HURON 9200.

With this large jaws  opening ,  you can replace with it , and the second larger in size cutter in your tool case,  and with this fact in mind , it works as an space saver .

 

 
« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 04:48:07 pm by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline Valhallasmith

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 26
Re: what brand of cutters do you like for electronics
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2010, 01:31:11 am »
Dealextreme.com (not dealexcel) is a pretty good place to get little anti-static items you might need.  Needle bottles, storage items, wrist straps.  Around a buck and change for little items like that.  I've tested the anti-static straps I got from them.  Runs around 1MOhm so its ok.  Its a little on the small side, but comfortable enough.
 

Offline ElektroQuark

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1216
  • Country: es
    • ElektroQuark
Re: what brand of cutters do you like for electronics
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2011, 12:01:28 pm »
Any advice about LINDSTROM 7191?, I'm thinking of buy one of those.

Offline eliocor

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 378
  • Country: it
    • rhodiatoce
Re: what brand of cutters do you like for electronics
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2011, 12:38:44 pm »
I ONLY use cutters made by Erem or Lindstrom

For tweezers I use only Lindstrom ones (if treated correctly they can last forever): they are the Rolls Royce among tweezers.
Once you use them you will never be able to go back to other producer's tweezers!!
But please do not use the ones with the "BL" suffix: they are the cheapest ones and they are ONLY like the best one made by other firms!!!  ;D
If you want get the Lindstrom tweezers at a lesser price, you can buy the IDEAL-TEK ones: IDEAL-TEK produces the tweezers for Lindstrom.
Even the IDEAL-TEK cutters are really good but their catalog is rather scarce.
I warmly suggest the complete series of SM tweezers (especially made for SMD): they are really wonderful. You will never regret the money you have spent on them!!!
 

Offline Precisiontools

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 90
  • Country: au
    • PrecisionTools's Blog
Re: what brand of cutters do you like for electronics
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2011, 01:24:37 pm »
Have used CK all my working life which I have recently discovered are made by Schmitz - http://www.schmitz-zangen.de/index.html

Lindstrom were very nice but are now owned by a French company who have farmed out most of their manufacturing to Spain and dropped the box joint on their whole range. This is beyond a disaster!

Knipex - yeah...not too bad. Cutters are OK

Have some Schmitz on the way right now but if their anything like CK they will be exquisite... ;) 

I have heard there is even some idiot doing reviews of electronic pliers on the web somewhere... ;D
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf