Author Topic: What ever happened to TV technicians?  (Read 10167 times)

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Offline VK3DRBTopic starter

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What ever happened to TV technicians?
« on: May 07, 2022, 04:50:49 am »
Some of the smartest electronics people I knew were experienced TV technicians. In Australia, they are almost non-existent now as repair labour is too expensive in this throw-away society. TV repair shops are gone, as one can't scratch out a living doing TV repair.

What are the TV technicians doing now? Retired? Dead? Or gone onto other pursuits in electronics, or even completely other industries? Maybe some are in this forum. It will be interesting to know what you are now doing today, and maybe your thoughts on the demise of electronics repair and its impacts.
 

Offline Ysjoelfir

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Re: What ever happened to TV technicians?
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2022, 06:00:30 am »
I was an TV technician journeyman, finished with two times shorting my apprenticeship because of good grades and still managed to achieve the best result in the journeymans exam in the country back than. TV and Radio repairs were demising back than already, and that quite notably. I worked as a repair technician for a year than, got basically nothing in terms of money or appreciation, built up my own department in the company in search for alternatives and found that in fixing coffee machines. After 3 months that already made quite a bit of money for mr. boss, still he was not willing to pay me more than what a unskilled worker gets.
Switched to another company, got kicked out after 3 months and 1 day because of a contract with germanys biggest cable TV provider that was canceled (i got hired to basically provide the support for their products in the region, and they just decided to screw up and cancel the contract after my company just bought TME, a car and, well, me.)
Went to a transport company than to get some income and worked as an IT guy there. Than I moved halfway through germany to Frankfurt and ended up studying electronics, which basically didn't teach me anything I didn't already know, but now I had a paper that says "I can do the stuff I learned years before!" and found a job at one of the world leading manufacturers for power analyzers, had a nice project I could work on there, but sadly after that was finished I was not needed any longer.
Been freelancing besides that for some years, and moved again, this time to Hamburg where I worked as a product manager and finally got some good money. Company went bankrupt this year and now I am unemployed since may and am sitting in the EEVBlog IRC channel, complaining about how miserable life sometimes is and being grumpy in general :P


Regarding the demise of electronics repairs:
That is indeed a thing, many products are absolutely not repairable, and aren't even designed with repair in mind. its just not a thing anymore, sadly. I always tried to create products with serviceability in mind, but that is not realy what customers want nowadays - all (most of them) they care about is the stuff being cheap cheap cheap. and it must have RGB LEDs, for whatever reasons. ;)
Greetings, Kai \ Ysjoelfir
 
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Online tggzzz

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Re: What ever happened to TV technicians?
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2022, 06:44:24 am »
Some of the smartest electronics people I knew were experienced TV technicians.

Smart in a limited practical area sufficient for their job.

They didn't need broad theory to do their job.

Quote
What are the TV technicians doing now? Retired? Dead? Or gone onto other pursuits in electronics, or even completely other industries? Maybe some are in this forum. It will be interesting to know what you are now doing today, and maybe your thoughts on the demise of electronics repair and its impacts.

Repairing computers.
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Offline VK3DRBTopic starter

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Re: What ever happened to TV technicians?
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2022, 08:02:17 am »
...Smart in a limited practical area sufficient for their job.
They didn't need broad theory to do their job...

I agree in that control theory is perhaps the most useful things to understand in an engineering degree, that some technicians might not know of. However, it would be a big benefit if engineers had a fraction of practical experience of a TV technician. Some techs I know went on to do an engineering degree as adults after years of experience as a technician... they made top notch engineers. France has the right idea, where one has to qualify as a technician before embarking on an electronics engineering degree.

A friend owned a TV repair shop up until about 15 years ago. When the industry died, he trained and qualified to become an electrician where there is plenty of work in this highly protected industry. He is happy.
 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: What ever happened to TV technicians?
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2022, 08:16:35 am »
I helped a friend repairing TVs in the 1980s and learned all about that trade.
My friend was about 10 years older and had a professional TV repair shop in northern Germany with several employees.
He taught me to find any problem in a TV set with a maximum of 6 measurements, If it took more, he got mad!
Our mail tool was a Fluke 70 series DMM

Eventually he closed his repair shop and started selling lights, very successfully I might add!

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Offline tom66

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Re: What ever happened to TV technicians?
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2022, 09:21:41 am »
I did it for about 5 years as a hobby/side income from 2010 onwards.

I would buy faulty sets, repair them and sell them on Gumtree/eBay/etc.

The truth is there's little money in it nowadays.  Not only do people seem to think their broken set is worth hundreds, people are more interested in the latest-and-greatest rather than a 5 year old smart TV.

TVs also became more reliable - it may be hard to believe this, but it's true.  The consequence was, however, when things did go wrong, they tended to be in the more expensive or impossible to repair components.  Like the main board, or panel failures, or LED backlights.

I also started a full time job as an engineer, so no longer being a student, I had no time for it (and my job paid an order of magnitude more than this ever did!)

I imagine a lot of technicians have just retired and few have gone into it as a new field.  More money in mobile phone repair / computer services, and many of the same skills required.
 
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Offline bd139

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Re: What ever happened to TV technicians?
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2022, 10:08:25 am »
Repairing computers.

That and phones, although that's going down the pan quickly now as things become more reliable and more robust. I reckon a large quantity of the inbound repairer potential are wrangling software and infrastructure now instead.

Most modern consumer electronics aren't really repairable past swapping out modules and those modules are extremely reliable compared to old televisions. On top of that the initial outlay for the consumer is ridiculously low compared to income generally. Consumer warranties aren't terrible these days and insurance and credit card protection allow for replacements rather than repairs. Ergo, there is no market for repairs and no repairers.

We have warm fuzzy feelings about repair here because we can do it, but it's a niche and a dying one. I only repair stuff because it's fun, not because of economical viability.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2022, 10:09:57 am by bd139 »
 

Offline PKTKS

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Re: What ever happened to TV technicians?
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2022, 10:22:30 am »
Repairing computers.

That and phones, although that's going down the pan quickly now as things become more reliable and more robust. I reckon a large quantity of the inbound repairer potential are wrangling software and infrastructure now instead.


Partially true..  I did repair from mid 70s to mid 90s extensively...
Made a good money to support my directions and my toys...

With the advent of the PC mid 80s i got totally addicted.
By mid 90s  i had already specialized myself into PCs and deep further into IT degrees..

Nevertheless the substantial time and effort invested in technical skills was never left..

I have about 10.000 of schemas not only from TVs but also HIFI audio and VCRs which I did a lot as well..

Anyone is welcome to ask for a particular schema...
 SANYO  PANASONIC  PHILIPS  Telefunken..  National as well and SONY and SANSUI and Technics ..
and YAMAHA  and MARANTZ..

Literally over 10.000 schemas...  catalogs and service manuals..

By late 90s i had already deep specialized myself into IT, network security and PCs only...
However I still do repair for myself

Truth is .. repair became unsustainable activity due to costs, time and labor...  :wtf:

Nostalgia..

Paul  :popcorn:

 
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Offline kripton2035

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Re: What ever happened to TV technicians?
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2022, 10:29:59 am »
Repairing computers.
computers become more and more unrepairable as TVs already are.
coffee machines is a good idea.
 
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Offline HighVoltage

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Re: What ever happened to TV technicians?
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2022, 10:31:15 am »

I have about 10.000 of schemas not only from TVs but also HIFI audio and VCRs which I did a lot as well..


Impressive!

In Germany, a good quality TV set had the schematics inside the set in a pouch with a troubleshooting guide. Some good schematics even had scope pictures next to the test points.

Everyone had the right to repair a TV, if you had the skills.
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Offline vk6zgo

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Re: What ever happened to TV technicians?
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2022, 01:49:03 pm »
Some of the smartest electronics people I knew were experienced TV technicians.

Smart in a limited practical area sufficient for their job.

They didn't need broad theory to do their job.

Quote
What are the TV technicians doing now? Retired? Dead? Or gone onto other pursuits in electronics, or even completely other industries? Maybe some are in this forum. It will be interesting to know what you are now doing today, and maybe your thoughts on the demise of electronics repair and its impacts.

Repairing computers.

The thing is, they did have a solid background of theory, although not to an EE level.

Over time, "dumbing down" of technical education became the accepted path for institutes of Trade training.
The education organisation would "Ask the industry" what sort of training they needed, & the answer would come back from some management drone, that they wanted people to be able to do a few specific things.

The wider theoretical knowledge of Electronics, which allowed Techs to adapt to changing techology over the years was no longer provided, but instead was replaced with a "Monkey See, Monkey Do" philosophy.

The "Technicians" turned out by this method can do things exactly as they were taught, but are "all at sea" if confronted with something different.

In an example of this type of training, over some years I would regularly call Telstra (in Oz) out for a faulty land line phone.
The problem, that the leadin from the roadside "pit" was intermittent, was determined back in early 2012, by the first attending Tech who, for some unaccountable reason, could not pull a new cable through, needing to arrange for a "team" to do it.

The "team" was scheduled to arrive while I was away, so when I returned & things worked, I assumed they were pretty neat & left no sign of their visit.

From that time, however, the line would go noisy at intervals of several months, "Techs" would attend, fiddle about, it would "come good" till next time.

When each Tech came, I would wait till they went through their set of "monkey tricks", then suggest  they check the leadin.
They would do that, play around, disturb something & temporarily "fix" it, (although the noise level was still higher than it should have been).

This went on for seven years, till NBN FTTC became available, & I decided I had better get the leadin problem sorted out "once & for all".

The phone noise had become  horrific, so I had an excuse for a callout, in any case.
The Tech came, & as he looked a bit brighter than most, I told him about the leadin,& the history of the fault.
He had a look, verified it was the fault, & promptly pulled a new cable through.

The first guy, seven years back, could have done that!
Back when Telecom Aust were running things, one of their properly trained Techs would have replaced the leadin on the first visit.

Hell, I could have done it myself, but I'm not allowed to!
 

Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: What ever happened to TV technicians?
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2022, 02:02:22 pm »
There's simply not much to break down in a modern TV and certainly nothing that would require professional adjusting. It's not like the old days when RF circuits would drift out of alignment and projection sets needed regular bulb replacements.
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Offline VK3DRBTopic starter

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Re: What ever happened to TV technicians?
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2022, 02:10:42 pm »

I have about 10.000 of schemas not only from TVs but also HIFI audio and VCRs which I did a lot as well..


Impressive!

In Germany, a good quality TV set had the schematics inside the set in a pouch with a troubleshooting guide. Some good schematics even had scope pictures next to the test points.

Everyone had the right to repair a TV, if you had the skills.

Everyone should have a right to repair. Apple's shareholders think otherwise. If the right to repair (where possible) was made a legal requirement, I suspect there would be a lot more technicians out there doing repair work. Apple purposely makes their products unrepairable. Apple even got caught providing firmware updates that purposely slowed your phone down so you go out and buy a new Apple phone. Apple is a company run by wankers.

German schematics were good, but that barely mattered because "Cherman Excellence" TV sets like Blaupunkt were junk. In fact there was a book specifically published on symptoms versus component on Blaupunkt TV's. Good quality cabinets but lousy (and unsafe) electronics. In contrast, the Japanese manufacturers ran rings over the Euros on TV sets. With a few exceptions, TVs like NEC were superior in quality, reliability and safety.
 
All the unreliable TVs (and junk like the Akai VS3 video recorder) resulted in plenty of work and income for TV technicians in the day.

 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: What ever happened to TV technicians?
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2022, 05:21:26 pm »
From my memory, Grundig TV sets were the best in Germany. Or it was just me, because I liked working on them and they were easy to repair. When the Japanese TV sets came to Germany in masses, I was out of that game.

But later I liked repairing Sony and NEC monitors, I considered them well made and good to repair.

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Offline bd139

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Re: What ever happened to TV technicians?
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2022, 05:43:46 pm »

I have about 10.000 of schemas not only from TVs but also HIFI audio and VCRs which I did a lot as well..


Impressive!

In Germany, a good quality TV set had the schematics inside the set in a pouch with a troubleshooting guide. Some good schematics even had scope pictures next to the test points.

Everyone had the right to repair a TV, if you had the skills.

Everyone should have a right to repair. Apple's shareholders think otherwise. If the right to repair (where possible) was made a legal requirement, I suspect there would be a lot more technicians out there doing repair work. Apple purposely makes their products unrepairable. Apple even got caught providing firmware updates that purposely slowed your phone down so you go out and buy a new Apple phone. Apple is a company run by wankers.

Um no. They have an official parts store and rent proper equipment to you to repair stuff with and provide service manuals:

https://www.selfservicerepair.com/

This is fairly new on the scene but they are scaling it out to most of their devices at the moment.

Here’s the service manual for what I’m writing this on: https://manuals.info.apple.com/MANUALS/2000/MA2074/en_US/iphone-13-pro-07300324A-repair.pdf

They also give you cash back for broken parts returned so they don’t end up on the grey market and people get ripped off.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2022, 05:47:09 pm by bd139 »
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: What ever happened to TV technicians?
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2022, 05:47:29 pm »
People stopped paying to have TVs repaired when new ones got so cheap. I used to repair a lot of TVs, monitors and other devices but even 15 years ago it was rarely worth it except when people would give me broken devices and I could fix them and sell them. About the only related item I repair for money these days is arcade monitors, nobody makes new CRT monitors anymore and there is demand for them to keep the vintage games original. Vector monitors are especially valuable.
 

Offline ferdieCX

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Re: What ever happened to TV technicians?
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2022, 06:04:51 pm »

I agree in that control theory is perhaps the most useful things to understand in an engineering degree, that some technicians might not know of. However, it would be a big benefit if engineers had a fraction of practical experience of a TV technician. Some techs I know went on to do an engineering degree as adults after years of experience as a technician... they made top notch engineers. France has the right idea, where one has to qualify as a technician before embarking on an electronics engineering degree.


This information about France is very interesting for me, because the same approach is used at the technical university where I teach.
Do you have a link to some specific information about that ?
It can be in French, I understand it.
 

Offline strawberry

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Re: What ever happened to TV technicians?
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2022, 06:51:03 pm »
There's simply not much to break down in a modern TV and certainly nothing that would require professional adjusting. It's not like the old days when RF circuits would drift out of alignment
I have some VEF201 and they still work as new = lazy repairmen instead of replacing bad capacitor/tube do adjustment .. next.

there is small faulty part to replace but it is not available for your 1k JBL speaker or TV = modern electronics

irreparable devices and devices that people are not wiling to pay is what makes THE END
I am probably the youngest Audio/Video ''technician'' left :-DD
for old TV technicians there is no work for them except retirement, I guess
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Offline janoc

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Re: What ever happened to TV technicians?
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2022, 07:08:28 pm »

I agree in that control theory is perhaps the most useful things to understand in an engineering degree, that some technicians might not know of. However, it would be a big benefit if engineers had a fraction of practical experience of a TV technician. Some techs I know went on to do an engineering degree as adults after years of experience as a technician... they made top notch engineers. France has the right idea, where one has to qualify as a technician before embarking on an electronics engineering degree.


This information about France is very interesting for me, because the same approach is used at the technical university where I teach.
Do you have a link to some specific information about that ?
It can be in French, I understand it.

I think it is a bit of a misunderstanding. France degree system has the DUT and "brevet" which are vocational diplomas but you certainly don't need to have one of these as a pre-requisite for studying engineering. Also, these diplomas don't give you anything in the sense of a practical "technician" experience. It is merely a two year program offered by a high school (brevet) or university (DUT) that you can then extend with an extra year to get a "licence". That's basically a form of undergraduate degree in France, equivalent to a bachelor elsewhere.

However, you don't need one of these to study engineering (which would usually be a master level program)! You can actually do a normal bachelor as well. Yes, the French system is complicated because of historical reasons and there multiple ways how one can arrive to the same degree.

But they certainly don't have or require anything one would understand as a "technician's" qualification. I suspect the confusion comes from that "professional license" certificate one gets after the third year after the DUT/brevet.

Here is the description of the French system:
https://fulbright-france.org/en/study-france/understanding-french-education-system
 
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Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: What ever happened to TV technicians?
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2022, 08:12:42 pm »
There's simply not much to break down in a modern TV

Oh really?  ;D
 

Offline mathsquid

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Re: What ever happened to TV technicians?
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2022, 08:48:11 pm »
I worked in a TV repair shop in the early 90s. I was 17 and had always been interested in electronics. I rode shotgun on service calls with a crusty old 70-something guy who got his start as a radio tech in WWII. He was a fun guy to talk with. The main things I did on those service calls were
  • Helping him carry TVs and load them into the van. (Console TVs were still really common then.)
  • Standing in front of a TV holding a mirror while he would adjust the picture.
  • Running back to the van to get mainboards for Zenith TVs.

Zeniths were the only TVs that the shop would repair in the field, because they would swap out the whole mainboard and send the old one back to be refurbished. The 9-181 board was the most common one, I think. Other brands of TVs would need to be taken back into the shop.

I helped install a few big satellite dishes (my job was digging the trench for the cable).

It was also my job to break the back off of picture tubes before the trash collector would pick them up. Once I opened up a really old TV (made in the 60s I'd think), and there was an empty vodka bottle inside the TV! I've wondered if that's where someone kept it hidden, or if a previous technician left it in there.

Good times.
 

Online tggzzz

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Re: What ever happened to TV technicians?
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2022, 10:12:39 pm »
...Smart in a limited practical area sufficient for their job.
They didn't need broad theory to do their job...

I agree in that control theory is perhaps the most useful things to understand in an engineering degree, that some technicians might not know of. However, it would be a big benefit if engineers had a fraction of practical experience of a TV technician. Some techs I know went on to do an engineering degree as adults after years of experience as a technician... they made top notch engineers. France has the right idea, where one has to qualify as a technician before embarking on an electronics engineering degree.

A friend owned a TV repair shop up until about 15 years ago. When the industry died, he trained and qualified to become an electrician where there is plenty of work in this highly protected industry. He is happy.

In general I agree. Theory without practice is mental masturbation; practice without theory is blind fumbling. Or, I suppose, if you have enough blind monkeys the new name is Machine Learning.

Just like doctors and nurses, engineers and technicians are both necessary; they have different abilities and inabilities. I know which I want to draw blood, and which I want to diagnose disease.
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Online coppice

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Re: What ever happened to TV technicians?
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2022, 10:14:55 pm »
I guess TV repairers went away when the market went flat. :-\
 
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Online tggzzz

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Re: What ever happened to TV technicians?
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2022, 10:20:46 pm »
Some of the smartest electronics people I knew were experienced TV technicians.

Smart in a limited practical area sufficient for their job.

They didn't need broad theory to do their job.

Quote
What are the TV technicians doing now? Retired? Dead? Or gone onto other pursuits in electronics, or even completely other industries? Maybe some are in this forum. It will be interesting to know what you are now doing today, and maybe your thoughts on the demise of electronics repair and its impacts.

Repairing computers.

The thing is, they did have a solid background of theory, although not to an EE level.

When he was a kid, Dick Feynmann worked in a radio/TV repair shop. He became known as the person that repaired them by analysing the problem from theory, then applying the fix. The other technicians simply changed valves until the radio started working again.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
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Offline vk6zgo

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Re: What ever happened to TV technicians?
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2022, 02:34:58 am »
...Smart in a limited practical area sufficient for their job.
They didn't need broad theory to do their job...

I agree in that control theory is perhaps the most useful things to understand in an engineering degree, that some technicians might not know of. However, it would be a big benefit if engineers had a fraction of practical experience of a TV technician. Some techs I know went on to do an engineering degree as adults after years of experience as a technician... they made top notch engineers. France has the right idea, where one has to qualify as a technician before embarking on an electronics engineering degree.

A friend owned a TV repair shop up until about 15 years ago. When the industry died, he trained and qualified to become an electrician where there is plenty of work in this highly protected industry. He is happy.

In general I agree. Theory without practice is mental masturbation; practice without theory is blind fumbling. Or, I suppose, if you have enough blind monkeys the new name is Machine Learning.

Just like doctors and nurses, engineers and technicians are both necessary; they have different abilities and inabilities. I know which I want to draw blood, and which I want to diagnose disease.

If a piece of equipment has to be fixed "yesterday", I would go for the (Real*) Tech, every time.

EEs are mostly nice people, but many get sidetracked by interesting, irrelevant abstractions, whilst others, in contrast, have tunnel vision, & chase their "instant diagnosis" down the rabbit hole for hours.

* I say "real" Tech, because there are an increasing number of semi-skilled people who couldn't "fault find their way out of a paper bag"!

 


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