Author Topic: General Apollo DSKY Replica Discussion  (Read 9001 times)

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Offline floobydust

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Re: General Apollo DSKY Replica Discussion
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2018, 03:36:55 am »
Ahhh not a total replica. It would be cool to see the EL display, totally unique. The entire UI is highly engineered:

"Human-factor engineers standardized color and intensity of each category of light within the spacecraft. Color and intensity of the DSKY's electroluminescent-type lights could not meet the standard. Green, the only color available, was reluctantly accepted for numeric displays. Spacecraft status lights were white, and caution lights were yellow. Filamentary-type bulbs were necessary to meet those color requirements."  Eldon C. Hall

The EL display seems to need 250VAC 800Hz and driven by a matrix of 120 relays.
Anybody know how to drive these with semi's and reasonable complexity?

I only know of Westaim Corp., then iFire Technology who were into EL displays, but plasma and LCD took over.
 
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Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: General Apollo DSKY Replica Discussion
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2018, 06:25:04 am »
I don't know about triacs, but these might work.

http://uk.farnell.com/hamlin/he751a2410/relay-reed-spst-no-300v-0-5a-tht/dp/9561854

It says out of stock here, but I checked and Mouser still has them (their photo is wrong though, hence the old link).

EDIT: You won't be getting them from Mouser any time soon, the minimum order is 5K, and Digikey seems the same. They might have them elsewhere though, we'll have to keep looking. But so far it's the only small relay I can find that will handle 250V.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 06:35:25 am by Cyberdragon »
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Online Bud

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Re: Ebay seller steals from Fran Blanche's DSKY project
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2018, 06:56:46 am »
https://twitter.com/contourcorsets/status/898542414469660672?lang=en

"My Apollo DSKY Display Project data has been appropriated by a for-profit company.... So Very Trumpian of them!"

Oh dear, oh dear... :palm:

I could not get rid of impression from the very first few seconds of the video that she is on some sort of medication.
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Offline donotdespisethesnake

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Re: Ebay seller steals from Fran Blanche's DSKY project
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2018, 08:33:06 am »
I could not get rid of impression from the very first few seconds of the video that she is on some sort of medication.

I doubt it. Exactingly recreating obsolete bits of kit is opioid enough for certain engineers. At least it keeps them off the streets ;D
Bob
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Offline madires

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Re: General Apollo DSKY Replica Discussion
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2018, 11:12:24 am »
The EL display seems to need 250VAC 800Hz and driven by a matrix of 120 relays.
Anybody know how to drive these with semi's and reasonable complexity?

How much current does each segment need?
 

Offline tooki

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Re: Ebay seller steals from Fran Blanche's DSKY project
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2018, 01:34:16 pm »
https://twitter.com/contourcorsets/status/898542414469660672?lang=en

"My Apollo DSKY Display Project data has been appropriated by a for-profit company.... So Very Trumpian of them!"

Oh dear, oh dear... :palm:

I could not get rid of impression from the very first few seconds of the video that she is on some sort of medication.
She’s mentioned in another video that she receives feedback that her voice is so calming that it actually reduces symptoms of some disorder that causes noise to be perceived as pain, so much that sufferers actually recommend her videos as relief!!

I’ve also wondered what her voice was like before she transitioned — but I suppose that’s not really any of our business.
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: General Apollo DSKY Replica Discussion
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2018, 01:48:35 pm »
Almost zero, as they are basically capacitors with some slight dielectric absorption ( which is the light) but you can expect around 2-10nF per segment, depending on the size. Your display is essentially a very large segmented capacitor with a saving grace of having a moderate ESR as well due to the thin ITO layer needed to make it both optically clear and conductive on the front, though the rear contacts are generally a silver plate on the EL phosphor layer with an etched display layout on it.

Generally the front will be masked to create the digits, cost depends if it is front of the glass or done with a glaze frit mask on the ITO layer before the EL screen print, which gives a much better contrast between digits at a quite lower yield and higher cost.

The current is basically a capacitor with ESR of around 100R ( varies quite a bit) in series, though with a reed relay switch I would also add a series 1k resistor to each segment as well to keep switch current low, as you really cannot use any snubber across the switch elements.

Electronically an optical MOSFET switch is nearly perfect, just have to use one with 400VDC rating, and if it is polarised then a bridge rectifier with each one will be needed, but with both being SMD you could make them a lot smaller in form than a relay ever could hope to be.

Example is AQW280EHA at http://docs-europe.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/1314/0900766b81314265.pdf which will do this without any problem with only a 5mA drive. DIP8 package as well is pretty small, available as through hole or SMD mount as well in the same size. You could fit them into the board space easily with room left over, and could even make some metal covers to emulate relays for them as well.
 

Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: General Apollo DSKY Replica Discussion
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2018, 04:08:24 pm »
Quote
Electronically an optical MOSFET switch is nearly perfect, just have to use one with 400VDC rating, and if it is polarised then a bridge rectifier with each one will be needed, but with both being SMD you could make them a lot smaller in form than a relay ever could hope to be.

I'm confused at how you'd put 250VAC through a FET. How is a rectifier going to help? That would make DC, we want AC. Also, you overestimate the size of those relays, Fran has showed them before and they were the size of small metal can transistors.

EDIT: Are they dual FETs? The datasheet doesn't seem to specify. They also run on 50mA, not 5.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 04:20:17 pm by Cyberdragon »
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: General Apollo DSKY Replica Discussion
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2018, 04:16:41 pm »
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
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Offline schmitt trigger

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Re: General Apollo DSKY Replica Discussion
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2018, 06:24:59 pm »
Quote
EAlso, you overestimate the size of those relays, Fran has showed them before and they were the size of small metal can transistors.


Correct.
Back in the 70s one could see in the pages of Electronic Design and similar trade magazines adverts from Teledyne Relays showing their miniaturized and rugged relays.
And indeed, they were in metal cans, similar if not identical to the TO-39 can used by a few ICs of the day.
 

Offline rfeecs

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Re: General Apollo DSKY Replica Discussion
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2018, 07:45:41 pm »
The rope-memory (ROM) for Block II was 36,864 words of 15-bit+parity. Weight 70lbs.

If this is a replica project, I can't see anyone hand-sewing that. Raytheon made a machine to do the sense-line wiring.


ref: Journey to the Moon: The History of the Apollo Guidance Computer (Library of Flight)

I guess most people may have seen this video.  It goes through the Guidance Computer in detail including the assembly of the memory:

 
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Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: General Apollo DSKY Replica Discussion
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2018, 08:20:53 pm »
There are videos out there of people actually tinkering with Apollo program rope modules. There are memory dumps and X-rays available.
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