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| What is a good about Covid 19 related? |
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| james_s:
--- Quote from: Kasper on March 31, 2020, 07:55:50 am ---Does anyone think UBI should pay well enough to build hobby projects and do home renos? Not sure what kind of home renos you are planning but mine cost way more than welfare pays and I do low cost renos, DIY almost everything and use low cost materials. And I screw things up and need redos much less often than I expected ;) Maybe you are one of the enlightened few that knows how to be happy with less. A lot of people I know buy the biggest house and the most expensive vehicle the bank will allow. I think they are the majority, based on the large portion of people who are claiming to be in big trouble right now. They are not going to just quit and sit on UBI, if they would, they'd already be stuck on welfare. --- End quote --- Well how much are we talking here? My mortgage payment currently consumes about 60% of my after-tax income and I live quite comfortably. I'm less than 5 years from having my house paid off and I have zero debt beyond my mortgage. With the house paid off I'll suddenly have vastly more disposable income if I can keep earning the same wages, I'm not even sure what I'd spend it on. I prefer old cars and have always paid cash and fixed them up myself and I have no plans or desire to ever change that habit. I'm my own mechanic, carpenter, plumber, electrician, landscaper and handyman. My hobbies are not terribly expensive, maybe a couple hundred bucks a month, more if I decide to buy a new toy/tool. The two renovations I've done so far were bathrooms that I stripped down to studs and completely redid did and I spent about $1500 on each of those. I've always been content to live within my means and a bit of discipline has allowed me to live well on a modest salary, compared to friends who have consistently earned closed to double yet seem perpetually broke. Even now I'm far more limited by available time than by funds and if I didn't have to work I'd have a great deal more time. While I'd obviously like to earn more, once the house is paid off I could live more comfortably on minimum wage than most will manage while earning much more simply because most people have the ongoing expense of rent and mortgage/car payment/credit card bills which I don't have. If I had a choice between keep working or retire and earn the current minimum wage doing nothing I would choose the latter, assuming we had national healthcare because health insurance is my next biggest expense beyond my mortgage if I had to pay out of pocket. The bigger issue though is young people who never got into a career in the first place. Given my direct experience with my friend's lazy stepson and his almost equally lazy friends along with a few family members and other people I know I feel confident in saying there are many thousands of people who have few aspirations in life that involve leaving the sofa. I don't really "get it" but quite a few people seem fully content to coast along through life doing the minimum possible to get by. |
| james_s:
--- Quote from: nctnico on March 31, 2020, 10:53:42 am ---Has anyone ever spotted someone on Star Trek cleaning the toilets? Empty the trash? Or working the garden on a cold, rainy day? --- End quote --- Now that you mention it, I don't recall ever seeing a toilet on Star Trek. Maybe people in the future don't have to pee anymore. I've also noticed that CRT displays apparently make a huge comeback in a few hundred years. :D |
| IDEngineer:
--- Quote from: bd139 on March 31, 2020, 09:55:28 am ---We’re better as a species if we have to fight a bit. It gives us value and fulfils our instincts. --- End quote --- People tend to value what they have to work for, and don't value what was gifted to them. There are edge cases of course, but anyone who has raised children has seen this behavior first-hand. It seems to be an inate characteristic of humans. Not sure how that would play out if suddenly everyone got $1K/month just for existing. And I'm still concerned about the fiscal impact of any two people being able to create a $12K/year obligation for taxpayers on a whim, by accident, etc. If you *stole* $12K from the government you'd be arrested, tried, and likely be forced to pay restitution AND a fine AND possibly some jail/prison time. Yet UBI enables people to create an ongoing government expense. That's a systemic imbalance, and imbalances tend to resolve poorly. |
| MT:
--- Quote from: olkipukki on March 29, 2020, 11:59:07 am ---There is always another side of a coin, and wondering what might be a good about Covid 19 outcome. What do you think? --- End quote --- Ah well! 1: Liberal globalism crashing down. 2: EU most likely to crash as well and dissolve thats very good. 3: Housing bubble crashing. 4: Paper gold silver market crashing 5: Stock market crashing, thats not to good but lots of oligarcs is about to going down. 6: China globalism is crashing, no one want s to trade with China. 7: DEM in USA crashing pulling socialist commies with them. 8: 2 trillion USD bank bail out again, good if your a bankster. 9: Toilet paper up! 10: Tin can manufacturers up. 11: Food stores making a fortune on peoples fear mongering other people into panic buying stuff they dont need in mass amounts. 12: Centimeter manufacturers up due to social distancing laws! 13: Anti vaccine movement growing rapidly due to NWO Bill Gates trying to make vaccing compulsory for entire planet (recent interview) while him proposing his medic companies to deliver the vaccine! 14: Nothing good will come out of Corona/Covid19 since the real agenda hiding behind is a financial heist! |
| james_s:
--- Quote from: SerieZ on March 31, 2020, 08:33:24 am ---A great example what free handouts do to a Society is the Pacific Island of Nauru. Read it up - it is not like we had actual case studies of this Idea before. --- End quote --- The American Indians are an example of this that is much closer to home for me. There's a lot of sad history behind it but the ultimate effect is they have been receiving handouts for a very long time now and the result is readily observable. I don't have to drive far to get to one of several reservations and you can immediately see the difference, a stark transition between middle class suburbia and ghetto. Dumpy houses, shacks, trailers, in various states of decay. Beat up cars, yards overgrown in weeds and piles of junk. When a person doesn't work for the things they have, those things lack value and get neglected. They have huge problems with drug and alcohol abuse, when one doesn't have to get up for work the next morning every day becomes a Friday night and bored aimless people have little better to do than get drunk or high when when done to excess lead a person to be more aimless, unmotivated and unemployable. No need to take my word for it though, you can see plenty online, explore on Google Earth or even visit yourself. If you want another example, find the wealthiest people you know and then look at their kids. I had a friend in gradeschool whose parents were rich, they lived in an enormous house, his dad was a lawyer and drove a fancy Jaguar with a phone in it, they were the only people I knew who had a bigscreen TV back in the 80s, my friend had all the cool toys and it was always great fun to hang out over there but eventually it became obvious that he was one of the laziest, stupidest people I had ever known. By highschool he was devolving into the stereotypical partying frat boy type who did little other than drink beer and party with his friends. I lost track of what happened to him after that. |
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