General > General Technical Chat
What is a good about Covid 19 related?
Kasper:
--- Quote from: james_s on March 31, 2020, 06:43:40 am ---
--- Quote from: petert on March 31, 2020, 06:38:26 am ---
--- Quote from: james_s on March 31, 2020, 06:31:46 am ---I mean even I would be tempted to semi-retire a few years from now when my house is paid off if I had a UBI. I mean why go to work for somebody if I can dink around with my hobbies and personal projects?
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I think we have different ideas of being lazy. Working for somebody else is only one possibility, but not a necessity. An entrepreneur is not an employee, yet he creates value.
There is also something rewarding about creating products that people will find useful.
And it doesn't mean that having a job you get payed for is advancing the world or creating values, either.
It is not as clear cut anymore, as when people were farmers and grew food. In other words, just because you are forced to work, does not necessarily mean you really contribute to society, even if you pay taxes. The net result for society may be negative.
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Why would I create products for other people if I can get paid to do whatever I want? I could build more RC airplanes and spend my summer days at the field flying them. I could work on my house, work on my yard, devote a lot more time to the hobby projects I build for my own enjoyment. I release many of my hobby projects as open source but they are mostly amusements and not anything that fills any need of society and hardly justify earning a living. I may be selfish but I don't think I'm atypical.
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Does anyone think UBI should pay well enough to build hobby projects and do home renos?
Not sure what kind of home renos you are planning but mine cost way more than welfare pays and I do low cost renos, DIY almost everything and use low cost materials. And I screw things up and need redos much less often than I expected ;)
Maybe you are one of the enlightened few that knows how to be happy with less. A lot of people I know buy the biggest house and the most expensive vehicle the bank will allow. I think they are the majority, based on the large portion of people who are claiming to be in big trouble right now. They are not going to just quit and sit on UBI, if they would, they'd already be stuck on welfare.
Even retirement aged people aren't quiting when they could. The small number I know, most of them are working passed retirement age. They could afford to retire comfortably but I think either they like working or they are still pushing for more. They say 'couple more years and I can retire a little more comfortably.'
There will always be some people who hate working. With UBI, they have more incentive to try working and hopefully stick with it.
SerieZ:
--- Quote ---There will always be some people who hate working. With UBI, they have more incentive to try working and hopefully stick with it.
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That is some Mental Gymnastics right there. :-DD And any country with extensive Social Security is proof to this.
There is an Argument to be made to have a safe net for those who want, but cannot work - UBI is not the answer to this. In fact It will not fix for those nor anyone or anything for the many reasons that have been stated before.
Here in Switzerland I am glad people have not had their brain melted yet by the sharlatans who promise magic handouts and infinite wealth coming from it and voted against it.
A great example what free handouts do to a Society is the Pacific Island of Nauru. Read it up - it is not like we had actual case studies of this Idea before.
When (IF) we get to a Post-Scarcity World Money will not make any sense anyway. :blah: Free this Free that... :palm:
AndreZheng:
;D Good to the birth rate. Boring when stay at home, we may make babies.
bd139:
A point with UBI to consider is the old idiom that “idle hands do the devils work”. Humans are territorial scavengers and hoarders by instinct. If you pull the rug under any artificial value someone has been assigned and make them comfortable For nothing in return then it can lead to an elite of people going awry. Not everyone can self motivate or be productive on their own and sometimes this can lead to self destruction. That has potential bad outcomes for the person or others and a second generation of folk who end up a large problem. We’re better as a species if we have to fight a bit. It gives us value and fulfils our instincts.
UBI is no Star Trek future.
nctnico:
--- Quote from: petert on March 31, 2020, 06:16:12 am ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on March 31, 2020, 12:39:06 am ---No. I'm saying that every society has a certain amount of people who get money (welfare) for literally doing nothing. Contrary to the UBI idea this group on welfare should be kept as small as possible and the amount of money as low as possible so it pays quickly to get a job.
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It's a common thing for people to say, but I wonder how many people really fall into this group. I do believe it is one of the ways to make people accept that "it's all their fault". I doubt that many people are truly happy with a "useless" life.
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You have to define useless. Some people are perfectly happy watching Youtube and messaging on Whatsapp the whole day.
--- Quote from: bd139 on March 31, 2020, 09:55:28 am ---UBI is no Star Trek future.
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Has anyone ever spotted someone on Star Trek cleaning the toilets? Empty the trash? Or working the garden on a cold, rainy day?
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