Author Topic: What is a good about Covid 19 related?  (Read 4377 times)

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Offline Kasper

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Re: What is a good about Covid 19 related?
« Reply #125 on: April 01, 2020, 12:18:51 am »
Does anyone think UBI should pay well enough to build hobby projects and do home renos?

Not sure what kind of home renos you are planning but mine cost way more than welfare pays and I do low cost renos, DIY almost everything and use low cost materials. And I screw things up and need redos much less often than I expected ;)

Maybe you are one of the enlightened few that knows how to be happy with less.  A lot of people I know buy the biggest house and the most expensive vehicle the bank will allow.  I think they are the majority, based on the large portion of people who are claiming to be in big trouble right now.  They are not going to just quit and sit on UBI, if they would, they'd already be stuck on welfare.

Well how much are we talking here? My mortgage payment currently consumes about 60% of my after-tax income and I live quite comfortably. I'm less than 5 years from having my house paid off and I have zero debt beyond my mortgage. With the house paid off I'll suddenly have vastly more disposable income if I can keep earning the same wages, I'm not even sure what I'd spend it on. I prefer old cars and have always paid cash and fixed them up myself and I have no plans or desire to ever change that habit. I'm my own mechanic, carpenter, plumber, electrician, landscaper and handyman. My hobbies are not terribly expensive, maybe a couple hundred bucks a month, more if I decide to buy a new toy/tool. The two renovations I've done so far were bathrooms that I stripped down to studs and completely redid did and I spent about $1500 on each of those. I've always been content to live within my means and a bit of discipline has allowed me to live well on a modest salary, compared to friends who have consistently earned closed to double yet seem perpetually broke. Even now I'm far more limited by available time than by funds and if I didn't have to work I'd have a great deal more time. While I'd obviously like to earn more, once the house is paid off I could live more comfortably on minimum wage than most will manage while earning much more simply because most people have the ongoing expense of rent and mortgage/car payment/credit card bills which I don't have.

If I had a choice between keep working or retire and earn the current minimum wage doing nothing I would choose the latter, assuming we had national healthcare because health insurance is my next biggest expense beyond my mortgage if I had to pay out of pocket. The bigger issue though is young people who never got into a career in the first place. Given my direct experience with my friend's lazy stepson and his almost equally lazy friends along with a few family members and other people I know I feel confident in saying there are many thousands of people who have few aspirations in life that involve leaving the sofa. I don't really "get it" but quite a few people seem fully content to coast along through life doing the minimum possible to get by.

Good for you. If only more people were smart like that and would resist the urge to extend their debt as far as possible, we'd be in better shape now.

I haven't tried bathroom reno yet.  Did the kitchen, floors, yard, etc. Ton of work but I enjoyed it more than my paying job. My wife and I have been wanting to get another house so I have more renos to do for a couple years but have been waiting for housing bubble to 'correct'.  I'm glad we waited, I think we will get a much better deal soon.

Online coppice

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Re: What is a good about Covid 19 related?
« Reply #126 on: April 01, 2020, 01:39:45 am »
Anything that is not evidence based is BS.
Not BS: The UBI experiments to date actually happened (unless you're trying to deny they occurred, in which case we're having the wrong sort of discussion).

Not BS: Those UBI experiments HAVE yielded "evidence".

Not BS: They are documented to greater or lesser degrees, so their data ("evidence") is accessible.

There's no BS here. Just your opinion on whether the available evidence is sufficient to reach a conclusion. Your interpretation is it is insufficient to prove the (non)viability of UBI. I'm not disagreeing, simply pointing out the parallel with how the advocates of communism and socialism interpret previous attempts with those systems too.

A valid question is whether such advocates would ever be satisfied that their chosen systems have been proven nonviable. I suspect not.
You must have a very very very low bar for the term experiment. They don't pass the most superficial assessment of methods. At a minimum they would need to be a guaranteed payment for life to have any value. What has been done might throw up some interesting unexpected patterns of behaviour for further analysis, but they don't allow any conclusions, even of the most tenuous kind, to be formed. The only fairly solid thing we have is to look at the idle rich. People read into that what they like. Some people saying there have always been idle rich, and they've been fine. Others point out that wealth seldom lasts more than 3 or 4 generations, because an idler gets control of the wealth and blows the whole estate. The latter looks like a fuller analysis. When its happening in the odd rich family here and there its no big deal. If it happened on a mass scale it would lead to societal collapse. As I said earlier, the problem with the idle rich model is these people have lots of resources, while UBI would only provide minimal resources. This might make a profound difference to the outcome.

Offline EEVblog

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Re: What is a good about Covid 19 related?
« Reply #127 on: April 01, 2020, 01:58:26 am »
We have too much COVID on this forum, and people couldn't control themselves. Tread locked.
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