EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
General => General Technical Chat => Topic started by: KWKolb on June 09, 2017, 01:28:03 am
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To me, good, working electronics sometimes seem to have a smell, or probably more often a lack of smells, associated with them. Like that "new car smell" on the positive analogy side. Obviously burning smells are on the bad side. Are there any thoughts or experience to share as indicators of bad or better yet good.
VR,
Kevin
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While a total lack of smell is always ideal, there are some smells that are common and do not indicate a problem. In particular, electronics from the 1970s or before tends to have a "phenolic" smell from the board materials that were used. It is also common for vacuum tube equipment and CRTs to have a slight "burning dust" smell. I believe it is caused by electrostatic attraction of airborne dust particles that are then heated to partial decomposition. Neither of these should be overwhelmingly strong as that would indicate a problem.
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Bacon. Bacon is a good smell to have.
Unless you are feeling a burning sensation, then that's not a good smell.
I like the smell of fresh plastics. Some stuff that is brand new has a strange chemically smell that I like. It could also be the cause of my insanity efheifbsiufesiuwcsdfhsfiasviudwfbeuekfbewiubfeuiwgviudwgfiuwdhfihur
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What about the rancid butter smell that is common to all screwdrivers with handles made of a certain kind of plastic? Many of these are actually vanilla-scented from the factory to make it less objectionable.
Another example is ozone. All laser printers and copiers generate it from the high voltage corona discharge: office environments typically smell of ozone. If the ozone filter is broken more of it escapes, and you really don't want to breathe too much of it.
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What about the rancid butter smell that is common to all screwdrivers with handles made of a certain kind of plastic? Many of these are actually vanilla-scented from the factory to make it less objectionable.
There's a plastic that smells of rancid butter?
I don't even know what rancid butter smells of, as I tend to eat mine before it can do that.
But why don't they use ABS or some sort of thick rubber?
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There's a plastic that smells of rancid butter?
I don't even know what rancid butter smells of, as I tend to eat mine before it can do that.
But why don't they use ABS or some sort of thick rubber?
The plastic is cellulose acetate butyrate (CAB). It is tougher and less likely to crack than ABS, as well as being optically clear and solvent resistant.
Xcelite and PB Swiss are known to use it. Over time and if it is not correctly formulated, it can release butyric acid, which is the main component of the smell of vomit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butyric_acid).
ABS doesn't seem to be used in tool handles; the alternatives to CAB are soft foam-filled grips perhaps using chloroprene rubber.
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What about the rancid butter smell that is common to all screwdrivers with handles made of a certain kind of plastic? Many of these are actually vanilla-scented from the factory to make it less objectionable.
There's a plastic that smells of rancid butter?
That has been discussed elsewhere on this forum some time last year, I think.
I have had the distinct pleasure of not having experienced it personally.
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He said it smells like vomit, so I guess I can put together the concept of sour and disgusting for myself.
The real question is does it taste like rancid butter and/or vomit?
For this we will need the plastic, rancid butter, and 20 or so random assortments of vomit from different people with different diets. We will also need a test subject î suggest we pull straws with the understanding that if I lose I will kill myself.
Jk, just a bit of 2AM humour I guess.
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I like the old, slightly musty smell that old HP gear has. And the warm dust smell of vintage tube electronics. Don't mind the smell of Xcelite tool handles, either. Wouldn't want it as a cologne, but I don't find it objectionable. Nor does it remind me of vomit.
-Pat
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I like the old, slightly musty smell that old HP gear has. And the warm dust smell of vintage tube electronics. Don't mind the smell of Xcelite tool handles, either. Wouldn't want it as a cologne, but I don't find it objectionable. Nor does it remind me of vomit.
I like the smells of old stuff...well story on that is sometimes you have to know when it's normal, or your transformer has gone thermonuclear. I think the mysterious liquid condensing on and dripping down the inside of the scope screen was a clue to the source of the smell (I never found the source of the liquid, it evaporated with no residue, but man it smelled funny, and the transformer was blazing hot).
I have never encountered, and prefer to avoid, stinky rotting screwdrivers.
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At some point in the past I tried sniffing around bubble wrap and other air-filled packaging materials as I popped them, wondering if I could discern air from China or the UK or wherever. But unless the air in all other countries smells like plastic bags, I don't think it worked :D
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A new hand crafted guitar smells excellent. Nothing quite like it!
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The most common smell that I run across in older electronics is the ethylene glycol from the aluminum electrolytic capacitors. If Bakelite is used at high temperatures, then formaldehyde will be present.
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A new hand crafted guitar smells excellent. Nothing quite like it!
On that slight tangent, I love the scent of the lacquer Gibson uses on Les Pauls.
-Pat
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I get electronics stuff from China direct. If the bag is sealed I take a big sniff of the air inside right when I open it, hey it's air from China! A free road trip for your nose. :clap:
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I love HOT paxolin, think brown stuff universally used for transformer terminal panels, tag strips etc great in conjunction with power resistors and high voltages, e.g. valve amplifiers ;D
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The plastic is cellulose acetate butyrate (CAB).
You will discover, if you have the habit of holding tools in your teeth to free up both hands, that CAB has a deeply unpleasant bitter taste accompanied by a tingling numbing of the tongue. It's a bad habit, and CAB tool handles can quickly wean you off of it.
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I get electronics stuff from China direct. If the bag is sealed I take a big sniff of the air inside right when I open it, hey it's air from China! A free road trip for your nose. :clap:
I ordered some Tektronix parts from QService located in Greece and the padded envelope had a very strong tobacco smell. It reminded me of my grandfather.
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On that slight tangent, I love the scent of the lacquer Gibson uses on Les Pauls.
-Pat
I wonder if what they use for finish has changed in recent years due to environmental regulations. It used to be that the same lacquer was applied on everything, except maybe an occasional one-off job in their custom shop.
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On that slight tangent, I love the scent of the lacquer Gibson uses on Les Pauls.
-Pat
I wonder if what they use for finish has changed in recent years due to environmental regulations. It used to be that the same lacquer was applied on everything, except maybe an occasional one-off job in their custom shop.
Oh, it has changed massively. Back in the day Cellulose lacquer was the norm and, because of the VOC content, has disappeared from mass guitar production and also from most of the small custom shops. Water based, normally acrylic, products are the norm nowadays. At least one of the small boutique manufacturers is using a zero-solvent UV cured varnish system - I forget which off the top of my head.
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The typical "vintage electronics" smell would be equal parts burning dust (from the tubes), hot wax (from paper capacitors), and phenolic (from terminal boards and carbon comp resistors). Some old military gear adds it's own peculiar smell from the "MFP" (moisture/fungus proofing) varnish that was often coated over everything.
All quickly fade into the background when a selenium rectifier decides to call it quits, though.... ;D
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Oh, it has changed massively. Back in the day Cellulose lacquer was the norm and, because of the VOC content, has disappeared from mass guitar production and also from most of the small custom shops. Water based, normally acrylic, products are the norm nowadays. At least one of the small boutique manufacturers is using a zero-solvent UV cured varnish system - I forget which off the top of my head.
I wasn't wondering about guitars, or any wood finishing in in general. I know that industry well. I also know that until roughly 10 years ago, Les Pauls were finished with nitrocellulose lacquer. Given the application, appearance, and performance requirements there was nothing else suitable at the time. I'd really be surprised if that had changed, but it's possible.
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Oh, it has changed massively. Back in the day Cellulose lacquer was the norm and, because of the VOC content, has disappeared from mass guitar production and also from most of the small custom shops. Water based, normally acrylic, products are the norm nowadays. At least one of the small boutique manufacturers is using a zero-solvent UV cured varnish system - I forget which off the top of my head.
I wasn't wondering about guitars, or any wood finishing in in general. I know that industry well. I also know that until roughly 10 years ago, Les Pauls were finished with nitrocellulose lacquer. Given the application, appearance, and performance requirements there was nothing else suitable at the time. I'd really be surprised if that had changed, but it's possible.
The Gibson USA Les Paul models at least still use nitrocellulose lacquer for a finish. I don't know about any of the others.
-Pat
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The plastic is cellulose acetate butyrate (CAB).
You will discover, if you have the habit of holding tools in your teeth to free up both hands, that CAB has a deeply unpleasant bitter taste accompanied by a tingling numbing of the tongue. It's a bad habit, and CAB tool handles can quickly wean you off of it.
Well, thanks to this thread, now I know what that crappy taste in my mouth was. And, yes, didn't take long to get me to keep it out of my mouth. By the way, I have a couple of Xcellite series 99 handles and a multi tip screwdriver for about 15 years and I only notice the smell if I stick them right under my nose, otherwise I don't smell anything. Since I typically don't work with my tools directly under my nose, not a problem ;D
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I remember an incident where a cabinet company accidentally used double the normal amount of pTSA catalyst in a wood sealer containing a type of CAB, and that sealer was used to finish cabinets for a school's laboratory classrooms. The cabinets were installed after the school year was over and then the building was closed for the summer. When the school reopened after the summer months, the excess acid catalyst had caused much of the CAB to decompose into butyric acid. The smell was so bad respirators were required when the cabinets were replaced. It was a very expensive mistake.