General > General Technical Chat
What is the real story around heat pumps?
Zero999:
--- Quote from: zilp on February 24, 2024, 12:38:20 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on February 24, 2024, 10:27:53 am ---
--- Quote from: zilp on February 23, 2024, 02:38:44 pm ---
--- Quote from: Zero999 on February 22, 2024, 09:24:50 pm ---I'm just not going to discuss net zero, propaganda and taxes. They're political and will just result in pages of arguing, with neither of us agreeing. I just don't support it. You clearly do. We'll just have to disagree and leave it at that.
--- End quote ---
That is simply a lie. You did discuss just that, as I quoted above. You just don't want to defend your position when challenged. If you didn't want to discuss it, you wouldn't have mentioned it in the first place.
--- End quote ---
Now it appears you're tying to provoke me, which will not work. I'm more than capable of defending my position.
--- End quote ---
You really need to pay attention. I didn't say you wouldn't be capable of defending your position. I said you didn't want to defend your position. Look at it, it's right there in the quote that you are responding to. Now, you aren't trying to tell me that you wrote "I'm just not going to discuss net zero, propaganda and taxes" because you wanted to tell me that you were intent on defending your position, are you?
--- Quote from: Zero999 on February 24, 2024, 10:27:53 am ---Indeed I consider it to be fairly obvious.
--- End quote ---
I supposed as much. But you do notice how that is a pointless statement to make, right?
--- Quote from: Zero999 on February 24, 2024, 10:27:53 am ---I just do not want to discuss the matter here any more.
--- End quote ---
Which might be true or not. But that doesn't change that it is dishonest to first throw out a statement that you know is controversial, to say the least, and then pretend that it's a claim that you don't want to talk about. Obviously, you would be willing to talk about it further if you were getting agreement. If it were in fact something that you didn't want to talk about, you wouldn't talk about it. But you obviously did talk about it. And you obviously weren't forced to, either.
--- End quote ---
I was not the one who first raised the issue of net zero, which is a controversial and political point and is against the rules of this forum.
I should have just reported it to the moderator, but made an error of judgement and responded to it.
It appears as though you just want to ague now. I have no intention of responding to your disingenuous posts.
zilp:
--- Quote from: Zero999 on February 24, 2024, 11:20:56 am ---I accept what might be the most economical solution for me, won't be the case for others. For the purposes of this thread, it doesn't matter why energy prices are what they are. It's outside the scope of this forum.
--- End quote ---
Except it totally does matter, because that is what can inform you about how prices will change in the future, and thus about what investment decisions now will pay off later.
This is like saying the reasons for the chip shortage are outside the scope of this forum, just because the causes of the shortage are not something traditionally covered by an EE curriculum. The reasons very much are relevant if you want to make an informed decision as to how to deal with the situation.
zilp:
--- Quote from: Zero999 on February 24, 2024, 12:49:17 pm ---I was not the one who first raised the issue of net zero, which is a controversial and political point and is against the rules of this forum.
I should have just reported it to the moderator, but made an error of judgement and responded to it.
--- End quote ---
Erm ... you seriously think that just because someone on the planet thinks that something is controversial, therefore, it is against the rules? So, mentioning that the earth is a globe is against the rules because there are people who are convinced that it ain't so?! Saying that free energy machines don't work is against the rules because there are people who think that the knowledge is suppressed by dark cabals?!
I mean, using a "lefty" label to try and discredit someone's position is obviously a political maneuver that I would think is against the rules as it obviously can not contribute anything constructive to a discussion. Stating and explaining facts about reality ... no so much.
--- Quote from: Zero999 on February 24, 2024, 12:49:17 pm ---It appears as though you just want to ague now. I have no intention of responding to your disingenuous posts.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, sure. I totally believe you.
Siwastaja:
--- Quote from: tom66 on February 24, 2024, 10:25:33 am ---I can buy a monobloc unit for my house for about £4,000. That replaces the boiler and provides heat. I would need a hot water tank
--- End quote ---
A tip, assuming you have either a boiler, or a separate storage tank with, with heat excharger for domestic how water. Plumbing: connect the monoblock to feed heated water into the boiler or storage tank, with the heatpump's own curve as optimized for house heating needs. You then get lukewarm "preheated" DHW out of the existing heat exchanger, so all you need it to install a small electric boiler "in series". Given that it only needs to heat the water from say 30..40degC to 60, not from 10 to 60, it can be a small one, one of those you would normally use for heating water for a single sink or in a small cabin. A 60-liter, 2kW boiler has served this purpose for me very well.
During summertime, especially if you use a lot of hot water, you are losing in COP. In winter, not so much, because the "incremental" or marginal COP above the house heating temperatures is close to 1.0 anyway, even if you use compressor.
This way, you don't need a motorized turnover valve or two large-ish storage tanks, and also get 100% duty cycle (minus defrosts of course) for house heating during the coldest of times. A simpler and lower cost system for retrofits, especially DIY. Has served me well. Annual loss of COP is probably not much but I haven't exactly calculated it. Professionals probably hate the idea, just like they hate monoblocks.
zilp:
--- Quote from: Siwastaja on February 24, 2024, 02:07:18 pm ---A tip, assuming you have either a boiler, or a separate storage tank with, with heat excharger for domestic how water. Plumbing: connect the monoblock to feed heated water into the boiler or storage tank, with the heatpump's own curve as optimized for house heating needs. You then get lukewarm "preheated" DHW out of the existing heat exchanger, so all you need it to install a small electric boiler "in series".
--- End quote ---
Beware of legionella, though, if you have a storage tank that is filled with DHW (as opposed to a storage tank with a low-volume heat exchanger for DHW).
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