General > General Technical Chat
What is the real story around heat pumps?
<< < (73/77) > >>
Siwastaja:

--- Quote from: tszaboo on February 26, 2024, 05:34:12 pm ---And no, I cannot "just install larger radiators", they are sized for 70-80C district heating, and it's completely unsuitable for low temperature heatpumps.

--- End quote ---

Yes yes yes, we heard you already, your house is not suitable for air-to-water heatpump retrofit, we got it. I could come up with a calculation how expensive it would be to run natural gas heating on the Moon, including the work to build a pipeline from NL to the Moon, and then just throw around the number of ten gazillion megagillions in every thread, but I prefer not to. Now please can you just go away wasting our time, thank you.
tszaboo:

--- Quote from: Siwastaja on February 26, 2024, 05:42:51 pm ---
--- Quote from: tszaboo on February 26, 2024, 05:34:12 pm ---And no, I cannot "just install larger radiators", they are sized for 70-80C district heating, and it's completely unsuitable for low temperature heatpumps.

--- End quote ---

Yes yes yes, we heard you already, your house is not suitable for air-to-water heatpump retrofit, we got it. I could come up with a calculation how expensive it would be to run natural gas heating on the Moon, including the work to build a pipeline from NL to the Moon, and then just throw around the number of ten gazillion megagillions in every thread, but I prefer not to. Now please can you just go away wasting our time, thank you.

--- End quote ---
Yes, because brushing off issues like the OP's issue (who is btw from the Netherlands) is the right solution. And houses are built everywhere like the Finnish standard, because we all get -40C in the winter. But that's ok, because you can just tell everyone that it's only 500 EUR. One size fits all!
Siwastaja:

--- Quote from: tszaboo on February 26, 2024, 06:12:13 pm ---Yes, because brushing off issues like the OP's issue (who is btw from the Netherlands)

--- End quote ---

.. whose house is in France and it DOES have underfloor heating lack of which you are complaining about so your game is now exposed, you did not care about helping the OP the slightest bit, you did not even read any of the OP's posts unlike me and others. You are here just trolling and spoon feeding your own case disguised as some sort of advice for others. Now enjoy the actual ignore list because it seems I can't resist replying to dishonest people like you.
nctnico:

--- Quote from: Siwastaja on February 26, 2024, 05:17:37 pm ---
--- Quote from: nctnico on February 26, 2024, 04:43:32 pm ---
--- Quote from: Siwastaja on February 26, 2024, 01:15:33 pm ---In reality, you just should do something else and not even consider air-to-water heatpump for your case.

--- End quote ---
True. You have to keep in mind though that 'something else' is easier said than done. In the NL a large number of people are stuck with homes which are not suitable for any kind of heatpump because the insulation is insufficient and it is financially not viable to upgrade the home as it would come down to rebuilding the home from scratch. The only alternatives there are to replace natural gas, are district heating or hydrogen (as a replacement for natural gas).

--- End quote ---

Air source heatpumps are quite acceptable for poorly insulated houses, they are e.g. used in traditional Japanese houses basically made out of thin wood frame and paper. You just keep the thing switched off when not present, and turn it on when you are there. It blows warm air towards you and heats up the air in the room pretty quickly. COP is very good because the condenser can run at low temperature, especially when you coldstart the heating. Of course a lot of energy is wasted with poor insulation, but this is wasted with any form of heating and therefore high COP is of high importance.

--- End quote ---
That is not going to work. One of the reasons you really need to heat a home thouroughly is to keep moisture under control to avoid issues with mold.
Siwastaja:

--- Quote from: nctnico on February 26, 2024, 06:42:18 pm ---That is not going to work. One of the reasons you really need to heat a home thouroughly is to keep moisture under control to avoid issues with mold.

--- End quote ---

It is not "going" anything, it is how millions and millions of people actually live. Complete shutdown of heating is maybe a slight exaggeration, but the level is definitely adjusted based on being present or not, and poorly insulated houses with little thermal mass cool down and heat up quickly. Remember, when people are not present, also water vapor is not being produced by breathing etc. And these poorly insulated houses are not also very windproof, so they naturally ventilate. For mold control anyway fairly small temperature differences are sufficient, such as 5-6degC as studied at Tampere University of Technology where I attended too, so if it's say 0degC outdoors you don't need to heat to +20 to keep the mold out. All that is needed is to reduce RH% to somewhere below 75% and that happens with a few degrees of difference under all conditions. "Keep dry" systems are basically constant power heaters.

This style of living is unintuitive for those who are used to having more thermal mass and good insulation - and heating which is kept to provide constant temperature. Also the control strategies to produce savings are totally different. We can easily cut the whole heating for 2-3 hours without much effect on room temperature here for savings with hourly spot prices, but we really don't do fast adjustments on per-room basis. In a poorly insulated paper house, it's the exact opposite; it would be ridiculous to use the lower cost hours to proactively heat up rooms where no one is present, but in a glasswool insulated house with inner brick walls it totally makes sense.
Navigation
Message Index
Next page
Previous page
There was an error while thanking
Thanking...

Go to full version
Powered by SMFPacks Advanced Attachments Uploader Mod