EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
General => General Technical Chat => Topic started by: technix on June 06, 2017, 08:42:06 am
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For me I am doing EE job on my usual hardwood desk (still a combo CS/EE home lab set up) with a pane of tempered glass on it, unless I need hot air gun action which I would move to the stainless steel surface of my kitchen. I have an antistatic strap hooked to my server rack, which grounds me from my left ankle. I also have a strict wash hands before EE work rule, discharging myself before touching ESD-sensitive components.
What material is your working surface made of? ESD mat?
Edit: Are most of you guys using bare wood or ESD mat on wood?
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Masonite.
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Wood. 15 layers with laminate. When using hot-air a sheet of fiberglass material is put on. Otherwise the wood burns.
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Masonite.
Don’t it have problems with the heat of soldering parts and hot air guns?
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Work surface is 3/4" MDF with a proper ESD mat on top.
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A painted hardwood surface on my workbench. I don't realyl take any precautions against static but wood does not build a charge that easily anyway.
As for hot air i simply prop up the board on some aluminum extrusion to hold it up off the bench. Lifting it like that also makes it easier to heat up the board since the surface its on is not taking away heat as much.
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Attached.
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non conducive and fire resistant i hope :phew:
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non conducive and fire resistant i hope :phew:
What is it? I believe tempered glass fits this bill.
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wood... well, if you can call MDF wood. lol
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I use a cheap, but sturdy, folding leg table from the office super store. The top is some kind of wood-based particle board. When new it had fake vinyl wood grain on the surface, but that didn't hold up and I eventually peeled it all off. Now it has an ESD mat on top.
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A wooden (simple MDF, i guess) table with some artificial veneer. Then I put a block of large paper sheets on it (the kind of blocks that you receive as a giveaway, usually with a printed calendar and a large sketch area). Once it is messed up, I simply remove the top sheet and throw it away. Paper isolates and isn't too static, so you can put a bare PCB on it to test it, and it prevents the table from burn marks (when something goes wrong with the circuit or whatever). I don't like ESD mats, since you cannot simply remove the top layer once it is burned/melted from hot stuff or messed up.
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Masonite.
Don’t it have problems with the heat of soldering parts and hot air guns?
No, it really doesn't. I've even heat gunned a small bga with lead-free balls off. Not so much as a mark.
The bench is actually ply and I just tack the Masonite on top with the idea I can cheaply and easliy replace it if it gets damaged. 4 years in and I haven't had to replace it yet.
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Also masonite, it will burn (darken) if you leave something directly on it. But I find it to be a nice surface as it is not too hard, hot solder doesn't bounce off it but doesn't stick either.
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Plywood, and then a nice bit of conveyor belting as a pliable surface. The belting is pretty resistant to heat, abuse and solvents, and with the carbon loading it is definitely non static holding, though I can only see any static in winter with difficulty ( At school we could never get a Van de Graaf generator to work summer, and even in winter it was not capable of more than a small spark), and the other worktop is a small computer desk with similar belting cover.
Belting was free scraps from a local belting supplier, I just raided the bin of scrap when getting a belt I had ordered. Too thick and inflexible for thin belts so to them just waste.
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1.25" laminated MDF with an ESD mat.
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Varnished plywood*.
*I used water based polyurethane to avoid the smell / fumes, but it really sucks as a coating, for several reasons. Wouldn't recommend.
Not at all ideal, but I don't care about charring it. It's cheap and, ah, "distressed" as they say. ;)
I've somewhat lusted over soapstone. Lightly greased or waxed or varnished. Probably glued to a base like plywood so it's easy to move. ESD might not be the best, but that can be dealt with by additives I think (a very slightly conductive grease, perhaps something with an ionic detergent in it?). (No, no worries about asbestos. The coating keeps dust down.)
The same can even be used for everything up to brazing steel! You'd use a thicker block and no grease or additive, but it wouldn't be very visually appealing after use, so it seems kind of an expensive/extravagant waste there.
Or less rustically, anything with a lot of polyimide or teflon or silicone (in a plastic, rubber or resin form -- take your pick) would serve excellently. Again, give or take ESD, and surface treatment.
(By the way, no, it's not good enough to simply, say, lay down a bunch of Kapton(R) tape on a wood surface -- that stuff more than handles the temperature where wood pyrolyzes, so it would just char and bubble up under the tape.)
Tim
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Attached.
harbor freight workbench. one of the best bargains there.
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Varnished plywood*.
*I used water based polyurethane to avoid the smell / fumes, but it really sucks as a coating, for several reasons. Wouldn't recommend.
Not at all ideal, but I don't care about charring it. It's cheap and, ah, "distressed" as they say. ;)
I love acrylic (water based) polyurethane finishes, they have almost no polyurethane in them though. The ease of application, the resulting appearance, and the wash-ability is what I like. Is it just the heat resistance you find a problem?
In the working/ hot areas I have the rubber esd mats scientific americas brand from canvu0_0: http://stores.ebay.ca/canvu0-0?_trksid=p2047675.l2563 (http://stores.ebay.ca/canvu0-0?_trksid=p2047675.l2563) a canadian seller. I further protect the rubber with an aluminum plate if playing with open flame.
As for the actual benches and shelves I use furniture grade maple veneer plywood. Which in my neck of the woods must be locally produced as it is cheaper than baltic birch and surprisingly also cheaper than the horrific MDF (shudder) per sheet.
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Neoprene sheet with esd mat on top.
Sent from my x600 using Tapatalk
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Glass.
Just glass.
Nobody has told me I'm an idiot yet, so I welcome the instruction.
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How good a working surface stainless steel make?
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Glass.
Just glass.
Nobody has told me I'm an idiot yet, so I welcome the instruction.
Normal plane glass? Can it stand the heat gradient caused by the soldering iron? I used tempered glass for its heat resistance.
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So far as I can tell, my working surface consists of a stratigraphic layering of the remains of my previous projects - as I recall there's a wooden table under there somewhere...
Karl.
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Varnished plywood*.
*I used water based polyurethane to avoid the smell / fumes, but it really sucks as a coating, for several reasons. Wouldn't recommend.
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I was too lazy to type the same thing again...
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I was a formulator at one of the big paint companies for a long time. Years ago the guys in their consumer division came up with what they thought was a great formula for a water-base clear wood finish. They sold it in two versions. One used 100% acrylic for the resin part, the other was 90% (the same) acrylic, with 10% polyurethane. This was so they could print labels with 2 inch tall letters that advertised "Polyurethane" (and charge a considerably higher price). The actual performance of the two versions was nearly identical.
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Glass.
Just glass.
Nobody has told me I'm an idiot yet, so I welcome the instruction.
Normal plane glass? Can it stand the heat gradient caused by the soldering iron? I used tempered glass for its heat resistance.
I don't know, and I don't know. It's never failed or deformed yet. I have scratched the shit out of it by putting heavy metal things on top of it (like vices).
It's the tabeltop glass for an Ikea desk.
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So far as I can tell, my working surface consists of a stratigraphic layering of the remains of my previous projects - as I recall there's a wooden table under there somewhere...
Karl.
Let's start an archeological dig! :popcorn:
We could determine what projects you've done right back to day 1! :-DD
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Plywood, but I plan on buying a proper esd heat resistant bench soon enough...
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my mother in law's dining table... LOL
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my mother in law's dining table... LOL
:o I'm not even sure how to comment on that one LOL.
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my mother in law's dining table... LOL
Implications... :o :scared:
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I love acrylic (water based) polyurethane finishes, they have almost no polyurethane in them though. The ease of application, the resulting appearance, and the wash-ability is what I like. Is it just the heat resistance you find a problem?
If you insist --
1. Double the cost (at the hardware store; I didn't notice an "acrylic" option).
2. Half the resin, at least. I used an entire quart to barely finish the work table.
3. It goes on thin, because of its somewhat low viscosity and high solvent fraction. I used like five coats. I probably sanded off almost as much as I painted on, each time...
4. It's not as strong as oil-based products. It scrapes away easily, and it's oil sensitive(!). (There's a somewhat rubbery spot beneath my mouse.)
5. It looks milky, both when going on, and after drying. It's not very attractive.
I was a formulator at one of the big paint companies for a long time. Years ago the guys in their consumer division came up with what they thought was a great formula for a water-base clear wood finish. They sold it in two versions. One used 100% acrylic for the resin part, the other was 90% (the same) acrylic, with 10% polyurethane. This was so they could print labels with 2 inch tall letters that advertised "Polyurethane" (and charge a considerably higher price). The actual performance of the two versions was nearly identical.
Hmm, interesting.
I guess I'll definitely not recommend that then, and not recommend the acrylic version either. :-\
Tim
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After many iterations I finally built a workbench out of birch plywood coated with two-part epoxy intended for garage floors (minus the sparkly flakes, of course). It's tough as nails and fairly heat-resistant, too. It is, however, rather expensive and the smell while it is curing is unpleasant, so I applied the coating outside and let it cure in my garage for a full day before actually building the workbench (which wraps around 3 walls in my home lab/office).
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ESD mat over a laminate covered wood table.
With a ceramic tile for soldering large not static sensitive things, and a piece of aluminum sheet for most sensitive things.
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I love acrylic (water based) polyurethane finishes, they have almost no polyurethane in them though. The ease of application, the resulting appearance, and the wash-ability is what I like. Is it just the heat resistance you find a problem?
Thank you for responding.
If you insist --
1. Double the cost (at the hardware store; I didn't notice an "acrylic" option).
2. Half the resin, at least. I used an entire quart to barely finish the work table.
3. It goes on thin, because of its somewhat low viscosity and high solvent fraction. I used like five coats. I probably sanded off almost as much as I painted on, each time...
4. It's not as strong as oil-based products. It scrapes away easily, and it's oil sensitive(!). (There's a somewhat rubbery spot beneath my mouse.)
5. It looks milky, both when going on, and after drying. It's not very attractive.
1. It is expensive, for me about 130-150% of the cost of the organic solvent type. All the water based ones contain acrylic whether the label says or not.
2.&3. I apply 6 thin coats! the first coat uses the most as the pores in the wood are still open. second coat is about half as much soakage.
thereafter each coat goes on in an extremely thin layer with a foam applicator which I put in a plastic baggy when not in use.
Each coat takes about 20-25 minutes to touch dry and the next step (at 50% humidity and room temp. )
I sand all the rough spots lightly with something like 150 to 220 grit after every odd coat, ie, 1 3 and 5. very little finish is removed.
I follow sanding with a wipe down from a water damped cloth to remove the dust and then immediately apply the next coat.
The damp surface doesn't matter as the finish is water based.
Going from memory a 8 foot by 29 inch bench surface used approximately 250ml or less, maybe 150ml for 6 coats.
4. I can believe it is not as pliable and tough as oil based poly. I haven't encountered the oil susceptibility though, have to test this.
5. Yes it is milky on application, but when I put it on I do it so thinly it is just enough to witness the area covered, it is a feature not a bug. It rapidly clears.
When dry my results are absolutely "water clear" no milkyness and none of the orange cast the oil based ones have.
Your results suggest you are putting it on way too thick in each coat. What I like about this stuff is the low skill level required to get an absolutely consistent mirror finish. It does behave differently than anything else I have used before.
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wood sagging under heavy equipment
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I also used polyurethane floor varnish to finish my hardwood workbench. The main reason for it being that its tough to scratch or dent and it does live up to that pretty well. It also looks pretty nice and fancy when combined with the stained acacia wood. I got complaints to why im using the now nicest looking table in the house as a workbench. Then again all the other tables are store bought while this one i made from scratch (mostly just because nobody was selling the exact kind of bench i wanted)
However! These types of finishes do not hold up to solvents! :scared: Eventually i found out that both ethanol or Kontakt Chemies PCB cleaner (Its mostly isopropanol and ethanol) soften and dissolve the paint on my workbench. This caused a few spots on my shiny desk to turn in to a mat finish.
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Generally speaking, the only kinds of paint or finish you can easily apply at home that will have good solvent resistance are going to be two pack types.
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<snip>
Your results suggest you are putting it on way too thick in each coat. What I like about this stuff is the low skill level required to get an absolutely consistent mirror finish. It does behave differently than anything else I have used before.
Bleh, so it is as tedious as I found.
I had the added problem that, the wood was quite open (it was somewhat weathered, actually), and very uneven. I did my best to fill and hand sand it first, but I would've liked some more leveling and filling action from the finish itself. Clearly, that isn't possible with this stuff!
Good to know it can achieve good looking results though. Thanks.
Tim
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I use oil base poly and thin it down with mineral spirits, then put down 3-4 coats with light sanding in between to knock down any tits, and use a tack cloth. I learned the hard way not to put on the poly too thick. Oh, and use a very fine quality natural bristle brush with oil poly...
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Fake granite kitchen counter top. When i use hot air I put the board on some of the crap that is always on my bench ;)
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My current setup is not really that great, it's a tiny computer desk that was originally for working on computers but use it kind of for both now. So it's just that fake wood type stuff, which is half decently durable though. I don't have any grounding mats or even use a wrist strap but I often touch the chassis of the PSU to discharge myself. I have not gotten into any major projects yet though. I also need to figure out a seating setup for that desk if I want to do any major project, I have a carpet for the computer but I don't want to roll the chair around on the hardwood floor as it will eat through it over time. Sometimes I'll go grab a kitchen chair and sit on that.
I eventually want to build myself a large computer desk that wraps around the room, it will be a work bench and computer desk in one with lot of flat space. I'll probably use plywood that is either stained/varnished or maybe just painted. Going to need to do more research on best covering but I basically want a nice looking surface that will also be durable.
When I build my desk I will also have outlets built into it, some with switches I can operate from an easy to reach area so I can detonate...errr turn on a project without having to reach over it to plug it in. :P
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Actually kitchen counter tops are pretty good workbench surfaces. The surface on them is easy to clean and pretty hard to damage, holds up to reasonable amounts of heat too.
Tho i still prefer the look and feel of a wooden surface and its still really durable with the right paint on it.
But what you really don't want to use a non painted soft wood as the surface like for example pine (It tends to nicely cheep here). A softer wood will get a ding in it every time you drop something heavy on it and dirt will get embeded in it that ends up impossible to clean. Spills also love to work there way in to that wood.
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Two layers of newspaper on the dining table or the concrete floor of the garage, no room for an electronic workbench at home.
One day, ...
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A load of cheap MDF buffet table with loads of peeling wood grain paper.
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Mine is cheap-ass MDF built table from Ikea (or similar store). This one is relatively new. The previous one had - after 15 years of usage - a lots of cuts and burnt marks, filled with 0402 resistors and little solder balls, so the surface was always smooth. Absolutely no problem whatsoever, investment of 50EUR every 15 years is just fine for me.
Not doing any mechanical work (drilling, cutting) or using heavy tools on it, though.