What should I get my degree in?

[Iceclaw]

Hi everyone,

I'm about to start my sophomore year and am starting think about degrees and careers. I want to work within electrical engineering, more specifically, computer hardware and software. I understand maths and science will be big factor in this field, but don't quite know what I should major in. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for reading,
Rm

[lapm]

Computer hardware and software indicate at least two different careers. One as programmer, one as electronics engineer.

Programmers usually have very little to do with electricity, unless your embedded systems programmer...

So which one interest you more?

Just because you choose particular career now, docent prevent you learning more on your own. Don't know about school system in your country but in mine they did allow taking extra courses in things you were interested..

And once you graduate and actually start working, don't under estimate power of learning something new by yourself that might come handy at work. Career is about starting with bare basic skill set and then starting to pickup more and more skills needed. Some you learn at work, some you learn at your own time because they interest you...

I got started in electronics as hobbyist when i was 12. And it lead to all the way of me studying automation engineering. Turned out to be wrong choice in my life. But skill set has benefited me other ways tremendously.

What you do now, might not be what you do in 20-30 years from now. Don't fear change, it happens, its life.

So pick now what interest you most, once life gives you more experience, you might change your mind.

[Stonent]

I somewhat have a similar dilemma as I am back to school to finish a degree in IT, the 2 year college I'm at now does not have any courses that are electronics related but the university that I will likely transfer to does. But those courses typically have some strict math prerequisites.  Where as I have taken the barest minimum of math.

Also note that Computer Science and IT are typically under different colleges within the university and may have similar courses but   not interchangeable. Where I will be going, the IT classes are under the college of business and management but CS classes are under the college of science and engineering. 

[Bob F.]

Bearing in mind that my higher education experience was mumblemumble-ty years ago, the general idea seems to be that you can get a job as a trainee software engineer with a degree in electronic engineering (assuming you showed interest and some experience), but not the other way around.   There will be far more maths in an EE degree.  Even 30 years ago, the emphasis had moved to digital systems design which I found a lot easier - less maths. Or, at least, less difficult maths!

If I understand correctly, US degrees are more flexible than UK ones and take four years to complete,  so it may be possible for you to select modules in your first two years that would allow you to specialise in the final two years depending on where you saw yourself going.


<aside>
As a general observation, expecting an 18 - 19 year old person to make such important decisions is patently absurd - I didn't start my degree until I was 26, but that was in the days when UK Unis did not charge students for degree courses and full cost-of-living grants were available for adult students so starting a degree in your 20's was not entirely unheard of.  Happy days...

Good luck, Bob.

[tggzzz]

Choose options that you like and will therefore be prepared to do "more than the minimum necessary" simply because you like it. Such dedication impresses employers because they can see you aren't a timeserver and will do more for their company.

Choose options that don't limit your future choices - i.e. ensure your choices only "close doors" that you definitely won't want to go through. You will specialise naturally during your career; now is too early to limit what you will be allowed to do in 10 years time.

Choose options that have a good mix of theory and practical application. Theory without practice is mental masturbation. Practice without theory is blind fumbling.

[jezsmith41]

Can I suggest, looking at it from an industry insiders viewpoint, software guys are ten a penny, hardware guys are currently in high demand. Software guys who start out as general systems guys then try to do embedded systems programming are a nightmare.

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[jezsmith41]

There is also a current obsession within the computer sciences that everything must have an operating system which is partly why people who have a CS degree then move to embedded are difficult to love.

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[Daniel_Reyes]

Computer hardware and software indicate at least two different careers. One as programmer, one as electronics engineer.

Programmers usually have very little to do with electricity, unless your embedded systems programmer...

So which one interest you more?

Just because you choose particular career now, docent prevent you learning more on your own. Don't know about school system in your country but in mine they did allow taking extra courses in things you were interested..

And once you graduate and actually start working, don't under estimate power of learning something new by yourself that might come handy at work. Career is about starting with bare basic skill set and then starting to pickup more and more skills needed. Some you learn at work, some you learn at your own time because they interest you...

I got started in electronics as hobbyist when i was 12. And it lead to all the way of me studying automation engineering. Turned out to be wrong choice in my life. But skill set has benefited me other ways tremendously.

What you do now, might not be what you do in 20-30 years from now. Don't fear change, it happens, its life.

So pick now what interest you most, once life gives you more experience, you might change your mind.

Why did it turn out to be the wrong choice for you?

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[IanB]

I'm about to start my sophomore year and am starting think about degrees and careers. I want to work within electrical engineering, more specifically, computer hardware and software. I understand maths and science will be big factor in this field, but don't quite know what I should major in. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Simple answer: specialize in hardware and core science/physics as much as possible. Many hardware people have crossed over or extended into software, whereas hardly any software people have crossed over into hardware. When I review resumes for software engineers, many of them have EE degrees. When I review resumes for nuts-and-bolts engineers they don't have CompSci degrees.

[zapta]

Can I suggest, looking at it from an industry insiders viewpoint, software guys are ten a penny, hardware guys are currently in high demand. ...

The stats shows that in average embedded software engineers are payed higher than electronic engineers and less that software engineers in general.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Embedded_Software_Engineer/Salary

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Electronics_Engineer/Salary

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Software_Engineer/Salary

Dave touched on it a few times in the Amp Hour that hardware becomes more and more commodity and the complexity and the differentiation of the design is shifted to the software.

Anyway, my suggestion to the OP, learn what you love because you will good at whatever you love.

Years a go I faced the same dilemma, was already working in hardware and had to chose a college major. I ended taking the software route, mainly because I got tired with the logistic and cost reduction aspects of hardware design.

[Lightages]

Get a degree in something you enjoy. If you hate your work then no money is compensation enough. Do what you enjoy and do it as best as you can and happiness will follow.

[tggzzz]

As a general observation, expecting an 18 - 19 year old person to make such important decisions is patently absurd - I didn't start my degree until I was 26,...

While I understand why you say that, and have a good deal of sympathy and support for your route, there are disadvantages.

On a "theoretical level" the vast majority of fundamental advances are made by people under 25 - that's one reason the UK can claim to be "so good at making fundamental inventions" (note the lack of any statement about turning them into financial advantages).

On a "practical level", I've seen HR-droids use "has a standard degree" as a tick-box filter that prevents good CVs from reaching those that are competent to assess a good engineer. More pertinently, I've seen a prejudice against "mature students"  that decided to get a degree later on. No, I don't like that, but that's not the point.

[VK3DRB]

If you were an Oz, best to get a mining engineering degree.

I had a visitor around here last night and he earns $250,000 per year PLUS free accommodation and airfares to an island off WA where they mine LPG. All food paid for. Nothing to spend. And he is only 30 years old and has been in the job for four years. He only works 6 months of the year, ie: 26 days on and 26 days off, repeated.

In comparison, electronic engineers here get paid poorly, and get few benefits if any.

[kosmonooit]

If you have the head for it, general Elec Eng degree will be a great asset no matter which way you turn after graduation. Yes its hard work and commitment and the maths is challenging, but  you will never look back.  We had electives in out final year, I was more into digital systems h/w & s/w.  (it just came easier to me) but I never lost my understanding of heavy current etc.

So aim as high as you can! "Reach for the stars, but keep ur feet on the ground"

[zapta]

If you were an Oz, best to get a mining engineering degree.

I had a visitor around here last night and he earns $250,000 per year PLUS free accommodation and airfares to an island off WA where they mine LPG. All food paid for. Nothing to spend. And he is only 30 years old and has been in the job for four years. He only works 6 months of the year, ie: 26 days on and 26 days off, repeated.

In comparison, electronic engineers here get paid poorly, and get few benefits if any.

Yes, it pays better. I wouldn't expect it.

http://www.payscale.com/research/AU/Job=Mining_Engineer/Salary     median: 112k

http://www.payscale.com/research/AU/Job=Electronics_Engineer/Salary      median: 68k

[VK3DRB]

If you were an Oz, best to get a mining engineering degree.

I had a visitor around here last night and he earns $250,000 per year PLUS free accommodation and airfares to an island off WA where they mine LPG. All food paid for. Nothing to spend. And he is only 30 years old and has been in the job for four years. He only works 6 months of the year, ie: 26 days on and 26 days off, repeated.

In comparison, electronic engineers here get paid poorly, and get few benefits if any.

Yes, it pays better. I wouldn't expect it.

http://www.payscale.com/research/AU/Job=Mining_Engineer/Salary     median: 112k

http://www.payscale.com/research/AU/Job=Electronics_Engineer/Salary      median: 68k

According to your link for EE's "People in this job generally don't have more than 20 years' experience." And that is in a dying industry.

That's because they burn out, get retrenched and can't find a job because of age discrimination or there are no jobs left, have had a gut full, lose the passion, or move to greener pastures that pays better. I have seen it all before.

I know one long time friend with whom I went to uni in the 1970's. He was 100% electronics. He was a brilliant analogue design engineer and very smart (a little eccentric though), but he felt he worked long hours for little return and struggled to find decent work. He could see electronics was dying in Australia. He got disillusioned and left the profession forever, literally vowing never to return. Through desperation, he became a home handyman in his local community where a lot of old aged pensioners reside so there is heaps of work. He is booked out 3 months ahead and does not need to advertise. He is now very happy, gets a great deal of satisfaction, and earns more money than he ever did as an EE. No degree required.

I stay in the profession for one reason and one reason only... I still have the passion, can still do the work pretty well and I don't think I suffer from the illegal ageism which runs rampant in our country. But I am fortunate, because there are few hands-on EE's left at my age in Australia for the reasons I mentioned. My work is in medical electronics, one of the only electronics industries left in this country. A colleague has a PhD in medical manufacturing. He is brilliant, very experienced, gets along with everyone, and is a little older than me. He travels from Sydney to Melbourne each week (1000 km each way) because age discrimination had made it almost impossible for him to find work.

Sometimes I think my mate made the right choice. Certainly for him anyway. In any case, it is bloody shameful on our government and our sick society there are so few electronics engineers at my age in Australia.

So, anyone wanting to become an EE here must understand work will never be guaranteed. There is no job for life. You just have to do the best you can, keep learning, go the extra mile, morph with technology and above all, keep the passion of electronics!

[zapta]

I know one long time friend with whom I went to uni in the 1970's. He was 100% electronics. He was a brilliant analogue design engineer and very smart (a little eccentric though), but he felt he worked long hours for little return and struggled to find decent work. He could see electronics was dying in Australia. He got disillusioned and left the profession forever, literally vowing never to return. Through desperation, he became a home handyman in his local community where a lot of old aged pensioners reside so there is heaps of work. He is booked out 3 months ahead and does not need to advertise. He is now very happy, gets a great deal of satisfaction, and earns more money than he ever did as an EE. No degree required...

I know an chip design engineer, in his mid 40s, that could find a job, even though he lives in silicon valley, that became a RN (a nurse with a diploma), and can now find as much employment as he wants. He also seems to like it.

It's not common to see engineers in their 50s and 60s doing actual design. Most transition to do other things, some related to engineering (e.g. eng management or blogging) and  some are not (e.g. staying at home).

[snowmix]

After 14 years in law enforcement I finally figured out this is what I want to do. I'm 35 and about to take my first class in college for electronics. Just because you think you love something when your 16 doesn't mean after a few people try to kill you and you roll around with a few piss covered bums that you're still love it. Life is about taking risk and always learning. You can always start over as long as you don't let fear paralyze you. If your doing something that doesn't make you happy just have the courage to quit.

[texwitheffects]

Well for me I'm an electronic engineer. When I apply for jobs companies will love to "looking for an electronic engineer" but then when you're hired they retrain you doing something more along the lines of mechanical engineering so then after time you forget your electronic engineering and can't leave and apply for a different job because you have forgotten a lot of it and haven't stayed current with your craft, so BEWARE! Companies will try to trap you.

Now what I think is gonna happen is that there is gonna be a huge need for software guys cus hardware is converting to software, but there will always be the need for hardware guys, but gotta do what you love and I don't think I could convert to software


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[tggzzz]

Well for me I'm an electronic engineer. When I apply for jobs companies will love to "looking for an electronic engineer" but then when you're hired they retrain you doing something more along the lines of mechanical engineering so then after time you forget your electronic engineering and can't leave and apply for a different job because you have forgotten a lot of it and haven't stayed current with your craft, so BEWARE! Companies will try to trap you.

Don't be silly. Companies will try to get employees to do the best for the company - which may or may not coincide with the employees long-term interests.

They also have a problem that they may hire someone in the belief they are competant at X, only to find that they aren't. In that case they can shunt people sideways or upwards to where they can do less harm (The Peter Principle).

I note your other thread https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/frequencies/ in which you are either an effective and amusing troll, or...

[Psi]

I would highly recommend going for an embedded systems engineer route.  The interface between software and hardware.
Simply because the 'internet of things' will take off in the next 20 years. So there will be plenty of work for an embedded engineer.

[texwitheffects]

Well for me I'm an electronic engineer. When I apply for jobs companies will love to "looking for an electronic engineer" but then when you're hired they retrain you doing something more along the lines of mechanical engineering so then after time you forget your electronic engineering and can't leave and apply for a different job because you have forgotten a lot of it and haven't stayed current with your craft, so BEWARE! Companies will try to trap you.

Don't be silly. Companies will try to get employees to do the best for the company - which may or may not coincide with the employees long-term interests.

They also have a problem that they may hire someone in the belief they are competant at X, only to find that they aren't. In that case they can shunt people sideways or upwards to where they can do less harm (The Peter Principle).

I note your other thread https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/frequencies/ in which you are either an effective and amusing troll, or...

What?... I'm telling this guy my past experiences with the last 3 companies I've been with all of which hired an electronic engineer and then pretty much tricked me into doing mechanical engineering type work which is starting to get pretty annoying.
My other thread you think I'm a troll? Frequencies are fun to talk about. I'm having a hard time understanding what is so troll about wanting to learn about frequencies. No one ever talks about them and I feel that is such a big and important subject in electronic engineering

[IanB]

What?... I'm telling this guy my past experiences with the last 3 companies I've been with all of which hired an electronic engineer and then pretty much tricked me into doing mechanical engineering type work which is starting to get pretty annoying.
My other thread you think I'm a troll? Frequencies are fun to talk about. I'm having a hard time understanding what is so troll about wanting to learn about frequencies. No one ever talks about them and I feel that is such a big and important subject in electronic engineering

You can't possibly start that other thread and repeat the same nonsense here while also being an electronics engineer. The two things are not compatible.

[texwitheffects]

Hi everyone,

I'm about to start my sophomore year and am starting think about degrees and careers. I want to work within electrical engineering, more specifically, computer hardware and software. I understand maths and science will be big factor in this field, but don't quite know what I should major in. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for reading,
Rm

Oh hey btw, when you graduate with your electronic engineering degree, semiconductor manufacturing companies will try to pick you up super quick. I got with them after I graduate and it was one of the biggest mistakes I've made in my career. I want to be a design engineer and now design companies won't look at my resume because I've wasted time in that industry and lost a lot of my knowledge in designing circuits. So if you want to have an easy job putting "A1" to "A1" and "B1 to "B1" (connecting cables and chemical lines) with cheap pay (I was making 18 an hour and some of my co workers were only making 15 an hour) take the semiconductor road. But if you really want to learn electronic engineering hold out for a better job it will pay off in the long run.


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[tggzzz]

What?... I'm telling this guy my past experiences with the last 3 companies I've been with all of which hired an electronic engineer and then pretty much tricked me into doing mechanical engineering type work which is starting to get pretty annoying.
My other thread you think I'm a troll? Frequencies are fun to talk about. I'm having a hard time understanding what is so troll about wanting to learn about frequencies. No one ever talks about them and I feel that is such a big and important subject in electronic engineering

You can't possibly start that other thread and repeat the same nonsense here while also being an electronics engineer. The two things are not compatible.

To use that wonderful phrase spoken by a civil servant to his minister in "Yes, Minister".... "You might think that but I couldn't possibly comment"