What's a good printer for minimal usage ?

[MarkS]

Quote from: pcprogrammer on Today at 02:49:28 am

You don't have to crank up your post count any more for the supporters lounge 

It is possible to remove or just not post your post if it is not what you intended.

I'd rather complain! 

[pqass]

I have a Brother DCP-7065DN (mono laser+flat bed scanner) going on 10 years now (since discontinued).  I'm on my third toner even!  It's very economical given that I don't print much.   Handy when you want a quick copy and even can do PCB layouts (toner transfer on dollar-store sticky cupboard liner paper).

It's Ethernet connected over LPD/IPP and fully works with Linux; including the scanner.  Any colour prints are outsourced to Walmart.

[pqass]

Yes Linux support has come a long way, but its still best to find one which does support it otherwise you will be using proprietary drivers and having to source them from the manufacturer website. A nightmare, don't ask.

Even if the manufacturer advertises Linux drivers they are quite often out dated and will not work, as I discovered with my Brother FAX-2840. Best to go to a decent website and find open source drivers and buy a printer after you've found one with perfect support. Not buy a printer and then try to find drivers for it.

Hmm... 
If I recall, I had to install the driver to use the scanner.  Then I use Linux XSane or Simple Scan apps.
Fax functionality may be a different beast.

My driver is still available for download:  https://support.brother.com/g/b/downloadtop.aspx?c=ca&lang=en&prod=dcp7065dn_all

[tooki]

As someone who fundamentally prefers inkjets for a number of reasons, I completely concur with everyone’s recommendation to get a small laser printer. Laser printers simply don’t care whether they’ve been idle for an hour or a month. Toner cartridges (or specifically, the imaging drum and rubber blades inside) don’t start to go bad until they’re many years old.

To avoid driver obsolescence, get a printer that supports PCL or PostScript (or PostScript clones, like Brother and HP provide). This will rule out the smallest models, but you don’t have to go particularly high end to get PCL or PS support. Almost every OS under the sun supports one or both of those protocols, so you’ll always have, at bare minimum, the basic ability to print.

Scanning is a different matter. Unfortunately, it’s only in recent times that any kinds of generic scanning protocols have emerged, and they’re not very widespread yet.

If you rarely scan, use a good scanning app on your phone. If you do scan a lot, consider getting a standalone document scanner instead. They’re better than anything in low-end multifunction printers.

[shapirus]

Same for if you infrequently buy photo prints.  You can get miles better photo print quality ordered directly to your door, or at the supermarket at one of those print machines,

It depends. Some printers designed specifically to print photos, like Epson L805 that I use, have superb print quality provided that high quality photo paper is used. However, once you forget to print at least a small page (that contains all the six ink colors) every couple of days, the print head will clog up when you least expect it. I had to set up a calendar reminder to print a page every other day.

Unless printing photos is required, a (color or b/w) laser printer is a no-brainer. However, there comes another issue: is there a good laser printer these days at all? One that would not require to register an account and/or purchase a subscription before allowing you to print, that will print without regular firmware updates, that will not break the next day after warranty period ends (or the next day after purchase), ideally that will also be good to print PCBs for the toner transfer method.

After having done some research I'm afraid it's not an easy task, and that is even before the prices are considered.

[tooki]

Same for if you infrequently buy photo prints.  You can get miles better photo print quality ordered directly to your door, or at the supermarket at one of those print machines,

It depends. Some printers designed specifically to print photos, like Epson L805 that I use, have superb print quality provided that high quality photo paper is used. However, once you forget to print at least a small page (that contains all the six ink colors) every couple of days, the print head will clog up when you least expect it. I had to set up a calendar reminder to print a page every other day.

For what it’s worth, Canon inkjets are much more tolerant of sitting idle without clogging. I gave up on Epson after having two of them clog irreparably despite being used at least once a week. I switched back to Canon in 2003, and none of those ever suffered a permanent clog. My current Canon printer, whose printhead has finally started to fail (ink colors contaminate each other), still isn’t clogged, and it has been in use since early 2008!!

[shapirus]

For what it’s worth, Canon inkjets are much more tolerant of sitting idle without clogging. I gave up on Epson after having two of them clog irreparably despite being used at least once a week. I switched back to Canon in 2003, and none of those ever suffered a permanent clog. My current Canon printer, whose printhead has finally started to fail (ink colors contaminate each other), still isn’t clogged, and it has been in use since early 2008!!

There are many variables. Printer model, ink manufacturer, air temperature and humidity, moon phase, whatever. In other words, a consensus recommendation is not to get an ink jet printer, unless you have a specific reason to do so .

[jmelson]

Yes, buy a used HP laser printer on eBay.  You can usually get one for around $75 including delivery.  Most of them will last for many years at low volume printing.
Jon

[tooki]

Inkjet ink runs anyway if the paper is even mildly wet. I don't understand why people would want something which prints using the stay fast equivalent of 1st grade water colours.

I've had documents that are 20 years old that were printed on an Inkjet and they are useless today also due to fading.

Nowadays, most midrange and higher inkjets use pigment inks that are both lightfast and resist water to some extent. (In pro photo printers, there’s often the choice of dye or pigment inks: dye for maximum gamut, pigment for lightfastness.)

It’s sad that most people’s experience with inkjets is with entry-level models. Higher end models are fast, produce great output, and don’t suffer from fading or smearing.

Lasers have their advantages for sure. But I think people sometimes forget that they have downsides, too: poorer rendition of large areas of high density, inferior color dithering in general, annoying shine on the deposited toner, higher power consumption, and increased indoor air pollution.

As for print costs: low end lasers long ago caught up to inkjet. In particular, small color lasers are extremely expensive to operate. Simultaneously, the “ink tank” inkjets that use bottled bulk ink are extremely cheap to operate. But for very infrequent use, laser’s ability to go long periods without use is a decisive advantage.

[tooki]

Yes, buy a used HP laser printer on eBay.  You can usually get one for around $75 including delivery.  Most of them will last for many years at low volume printing.
Jon

$75?

You can get them for free in classified ads. People are constantly giving away laser printers: the toner runs out, and then they see that a new toner cartridge is $80 and instead choose to buy a new $100 laser (whose $50 cartridges only last for a few hundred pages) and give away the old printer whose $80 toner will last for 5000 pages…

Note to self: finally get around to ordering a new toner cartridge for my old HP laser. (It still has toner left, but the cartridge is old and produces lousy output, due to a worn out drum and doctor blades.)


But I totally agree that an old HP laser will last forever in home use.

[beanflying]

Interesting. I 'still' need to buy a replacement printer from this 18 month old topic  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/general-computing/laser-or-good-quality-inkjet-printer-in-2021/msg3571234/#msg3571234

I have been mooching printer time occasionally and not owning one the local library is 100m away if I am desperate. Still sort looking for the flatbed Scanner/Laser in a small form factor (so a miracle)  and the more I see of modern Inkjets being a complete race to the bottom to sell consumables I can't see my usage suits spending good $ on another mid level inkjet again.

[tooki]

For what it’s worth, Canon inkjets are much more tolerant of sitting idle without clogging. I gave up on Epson after having two of them clog irreparably despite being used at least once a week. I switched back to Canon in 2003, and none of those ever suffered a permanent clog. My current Canon printer, whose printhead has finally started to fail (ink colors contaminate each other), still isn’t clogged, and it has been in use since early 2008!!

There are many variables. Printer model, ink manufacturer, air temperature and humidity, moon phase, whatever. In other words, a consensus recommendation is not to get an ink jet printer, unless you have a specific reason to do so .

I wouldn’t call it “consensus”, especially with the ink tank inkjets whose page costs are spectacularly low.

It used to be that the general recommendation was “inkjet for low volume, laser for high volume”. Now it’s kinda the opposite: “laser for low volume/sporadic, inkjet for frequent, high volume”.

There’s actually been, over the past few years, some movement of inkjet into the large office printer market. Some models have full A3-width printheads that print at enormous speeds, with dirt-cheap ink. HP and Canon have discontinued theirs, but Epson is about to ship some new models next month, with page-wide heads capable of 60 pages per minute.

[Muttley Snickers]

My blood brother is a complete fuckwit but my inkjet Brother is, and always has been my best and most reliable friend. I really do love my Brother MFC790CW.   

[pcprogrammer]

There’s actually been, over the past few years, some movement of inkjet into the large office printer market. Some models have full A3-width printheads that print at enormous speeds, with dirt-cheap ink. HP and Canon have discontinued theirs, but Epson is about to ship some new models next month, with page-wide heads capable of 60 pages per minute.

Funny that you mention this. Some 20 years ago I wrote a dedicated driver for, at the time, Group1 Software, to output IJPDS intended for big inkjet printers with full width heads. Can't find any pictures and don't recall the name of the manufacturer. The web shows Kodak as the developer of the IJPDS format and it might well be that it was also them who made the printers. Had to make a trip to a factory in Dayton Ohio to get more information about the systems and after finishing the driver went for testing to some place in Switzerland where they had one of these printers. Filled up a big room these things and took big rolls of paper. But they where fast. Full speed about 2000 pages per minute if I recall correclty. 

[jmelson]

You can get them for free in classified ads. People are constantly giving away laser printers: the toner runs out, and then they see that a new toner cartridge is $80 and instead choose to buy a new $100 laser (whose $50 cartridges only last for a few hundred pages) and give away the old printer whose $80 toner will last for 5000 pages…

Well, I needed Ethernet + PostScript and wanted to make sure I got the right options.  The eBay seller really screwed this up TWICE, no Ethernet!
I finally got a refund and bought from a different seller, and it is working fine.

Note to self: finally get around to ordering a new toner cartridge for my old HP laser. (It still has toner left, but the cartridge is old and produces lousy output, due to a worn out drum and doctor blades.)

Yes, I kept my old LaserJet 5M running for about 15 years but always had to put new wiper blades in the NOS cartridges I got.  I finally had to put the poor beast out to pasture as one of the paper feed rollers turned to complete goo, and no replacement was available.  Now I have a M401dne, and it prints WAAAY faster and does duplex, and can also print some complex documents the old one choked on.
Jon

[westfw]

what kills it the most time is Microsoft and the next version of Windows.

Yeah; I picked up two free HP PCL4 laser printers (with extra cartridges) off of FreeCycle (I guess from some sort of small office whose owner was retiring), but only one had the needed USB to mini-centronics parallel port cord (which would be relatively difficult and expensive to replace), and setting up drivers for W10 was ... less than trivial (and could stop working with any update, I guess.)

Surely someone has written Raspberry Pi (or equivalent) printer emulation SW?  (Looks like a networked postscipt printer, runs GhostScript, outputs to any number of ancient printers that "modern" Operating Systems don't want to support.)

[alm]

Surely someone has written Raspberry Pi (or equivalent) printer emulation SW?  (Looks like a networked postscipt printer, runs GhostScript, outputs to any number of ancient printers that "modern" Operating Systems don't want to support.)

Sure, the standard Linux printing system Cups does this pretty much by default if the printer is configured.

[themadhippy]

drivers? no idea what voodoo brother or linux uses  but i aint installed any drivers,just pointed  the printer at the network and job done

[westfw]

just pointed the printer at the network

Not going to work with pre-networked printers, now is it?

[paulca]

If you only print once in a while it is best to buy a laser printer.

I concur.  Inkjets don't typically like being sat up, usually you have bad prints and need to expend half a cartridge running the cleaning cycle.  The cartridges have actual hardware obsolescence (claiming the ink has a shelf life).  So after a year, maybe 2, "computer says no".

Cheap lasers are available.

A second factor to remember with printers, is setup, config and drivers.  Finding the cables, drivers etc.  For this reason, if you can afford the extra £80-100 buy a networked printer.  These are designed for offices and usually install automatically in the background on any PC on the network.  I don't think I ever had to setup my Brother, I configured it's Wifi and it just appeared fully ready to go.  The only time it has ever failed to fire up (from deep sleep) and print within 3 minutes was the times the cat has pushed the front panel release... it's a thing she likes to do.

[Gyro]

I agree that a cheap laser is the way to go for occasional use. My (I guess old now) Dell C1760nw colour printer has quietly sat there, attached to the router, for the past 10 years at least, waking up and printing whenever required, it hasn't skipped a beat. Photo quality actually isn't at all bad for casual use, putting in some smooth surface (high clay content) laser photo paper makes a huge difference.

One tip, choose one that has readily available aftermarket toner cartridges. Cheap laser printers, like cheap inkjets aim to make money back on consumables. So far I've got through the original starter cartridges, a fresh set of official Dell starter cartridges, purchased cheaply on ebay, and am now on a set of remanufactured high capacity aftermarket cartridges, with no loss of print quality. A set of genuine high capacity Dell cartridges would have cost more than the printer, effectively writing it off. The aftermarket ones are very economical (and you hardly ever need to change them with low volume printing anyway).

[kaz911]

my favourites are Brother Laser MFC's. Silent when not running and drivers are not full of junk (just a little bit of junk not a massive pile of sh*t like HP)

[paulca]

Good point on checking the cost of consumables.  I think I checked the brother cartridges existed in popular 3rd party form for £100 a full set of 4.  The official ones are only about 150 anyway.

Not that that appears to be a concern.  My daughter has been printing full block colour drawings on it mostly what its been used for and it still reports 100% on all toners.  It's a year old.

[tooki]

Cheap lasers are available.

I just think it’s important to remind people that the toner for cheap laser printers is very, very, very expensive, frequently more expensive than inkjet ink. So while they’re great for people who truly print next to nothing, with large gaps of time between print jobs, it only takes a few hundred pages of printouts to make it cheaper, long term, to get an ink tank inkjet. Their ink is so cheap that even if you waste fully half of it on head cleaning, you’ve still spent practically nothing on ink.

[nctnico]

my favourites are Brother Laser MFC's. Silent when not running and drivers are not full of junk (just a little bit of junk not a massive pile of sh*t like HP)

The trick with HP printers is to scroll down and download the drivers only. Their software is a pile of junk indeed.

Cheap lasers are available.

I just think it’s important to remind people that the toner for cheap laser printers is very, very, very expensive, frequently more expensive than inkjet ink.

I doubt that. I always buy the largest B&W toner cartridge that fits the printer and it takes me years before it is empty. In my experience an inkjet just doesn't work for incidental printing. Been there, done that. Heads get clogged and/or ink dries out. On top of that, the print quality just isn't as sharp as you get from a laser printer. BTW I always buy original cartridges. I don't want to mess around with crap. I can easely waste more time than the toner cartridge is worth.