What's the current go-to calculator for electrical engineers?

[BreakingOhmsLaw]

Hi fellow engineers,

having to replace my trusty old calculator, I am trying to find out what current models are good for daily use by EEs.
I don't have any restrictions on functionality as a student may have. What I'm looking for are features like:
 - Easy to access constants (light speed, Boltzmann, elementary charge etc.)
 - Engineering notation
 - log functions preferably directly accessible (without using shift key)
 - Multiple memory locations
 - reasonable battery life
 - obtainable as new unit - not something I have to hunt down at EvilBay.

Any input is appreciated.

[kripton2035]

casio fx991ex

[isometrik]

HP 35s if you like to use RPN. Available at around $60 USD.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_35s

[TimFox]

For those who prefer RPN (and for those who have never tried it), Swiss Micros has put out a modern line of calculators based on the older -hp- models.
They use modern hardware and batteries, and their newer models have excellent pushbutton switches.
For normal hand-held calculations, my current model is their DM41X.

https://www.swissmicros.com/

[kripton2035]

HP 35s if you like to use RPN. Available at around $60 USD.

log needs shift key on the hp35s (even if it's a very good calculator !)
I have one hp35s, one fx991ex, one ti84 and one casio fx-cp400
love all of them.
the fx991 is the one I use most often because it never has dead batteries !

[David Hess]

I currently use an HP50g.

Those Swissmicros RPN calculators look nice though.

[BreakingOhmsLaw]

I know RPN has some advantages, but having used PN all my life that's probably an exercise in frustration.

Does anyone use a HP Prime and can report whether it's good for EE?

[Jeroen3]

Depending on what you want to do, I have the fx-991MS with the SI-prefix buttons and output. Which is nice.

[coppercone2]

honestly web programs, you can't beat stuff with hard core diagrams, text boxes, etc. I keep those view tickers running on the engineering calculator websites.

I.e.
https://hamwaves.com/inductance/en/index.html#input

You get a 20+ entry calculator and effectively MAN pages. There are some advanced useful suites for graphing calculators but honestly most places now.. the electronics lab is loaded with internet enabled computers. And the graphics on the websites help keep other engineers aligned.

If it had to be offline I would get a tablet with the websites saved on it, if possible. The heat sink designer programs some websites have are wonderful too, but its processed on their end through CAD sim so you NEED the connection and their servers to be up.

And since I often have many numbers to fill in parametric equations? if you can call it that, excel is the calculator of choice over a graphing calc because simply put the color/resize/etc functions of excel make it more clear and presentable and sharable.

What I would want though is a magic notebook that has the different pages that look like blank physical paper worksheets, so you flip to the correct page and pencil stuff in, then the answers appears, but it has the same consistency, weight, feel, etc.. of actual paper that I can bend the edges of and stick physical indexing marks into and so forth. But I suppose you need Merlin for that?

[tooki]

I know RPN has some advantages, but having used PN all my life that's probably an exercise in frustration.

Does anyone use a HP Prime and can report whether it's good for EE?

I use the HP Prime.

I chose it above all because of the excellent keypad (RSI issues require this), but I’ve been doing well with it for my electronics apprenticeship.

It does some things extremely well (like using the touch screen to easily select prior results or formulae to copy them into a calculation), others could use improvement (like the brain-dead engineering notation implementation). Overall, I’d say it’s a very, very productive calculator to work with.

Pictures don’t do justice just how much smaller it is than the TI nspire. It’s a gorgeous piece of hardware. It’s really no thicker than a typical non-graphing scientific calculator.  (It is actually thinner than my TI-30X Pro MathPrint!)

The latest firmware for it added Python support. I’m curious as to whether that will lead to more apps for it; there aren’t exactly a ton of them now, and they’re not especially exciting.

[PlainName]

casio fx991ex

I use a fx991es mostly because it's quicker to switch between decimal, hex and binary answers.

But I also use OpenCalc on the PC. And Electrodroid on my phone. And Omni Calculator: https://www.omnicalculator.com/

[Sal Ammoniac]

I don't bother with a physical calculator anymore. I use an HP-41CX app on my iPhone. It's a nearly perfect emulation of the real thing (except it runs many times faster than the original) and it's always at hand.

[TimNJ]

If you have an iPhone: http://www.archimedescalculator.com/

[blubillcanada]

I have a couple HP Prime calculators, they can do pretty much any sort of calculation thrown at them. It's a fantastic device and there's a free emulator for windows.
The Prime is super fast, color graphing & programmable.

That said, my daily driver is the cheap and cheerful Casio FX-260 Solar II $9CDN. No built-in constants though and only one memory. Dave has a review on Youtube.

For $30 the Casio FX-991EX is quite a bargain with plenty of built-in constants and a nice GLCD display.

[SiliconWizard]

I don't bother with a physical calculator anymore.

Same here. Using tools on computer is much more comfortable and powerful these days. This is a discussion that comes up on a regular basis.

As far as physical calculators, I've had quite a few over the years. The ones I have left currently are: one HP48G+ and one HP39gII. Both are nice in their own ways, but I almost never use them anymore.

[xrunner]

I don't bother with a physical calculator anymore. I use an HP-41CX app on my iPhone. It's a nearly perfect emulation of the real thing (except it runs many times faster than the original) and it's always at hand.

Same here except I use the hp 42S iPhone app. 

[PlainName]

Same here. Using tools on computer is much more comfortable and powerful these days.

They are, but suffer from the same issue that oscilloscopes on a PC have: there is nothing like stabbing actual buttons. I can type in a problem on a calculator far quicker than I can point to the keys on a PC, and also faster than using the numpad. And that's without dealing with the shift functions which could be anywhere on a PC keyboard.

Further, the calculator is divorced from the PC, so it's never hidden behind some window or obscuring a window itself, and I like being able to put it down wherever the hell it falls, and pick it up to do some sum without interrupting what I'm typing on the PC.

But copy'n'paste to the clipboard is a bitch.

[nfmax]

There ought to be a way to send a calculator result to the computer clipboards - Bluetooth or something

[SiliconWizard]

Same here. Using tools on computer is much more comfortable and powerful these days.

They are, but suffer from the same issue that oscilloscopes on a PC have: there is nothing like stabbing actual buttons. I can type in a problem on a calculator far quicker than I can point to the keys on a PC,

Uh. A computer keyboard is infinitely more comfortable and faster to type on than any calculator's keyboard, unless your computer keyboard is utter crap, in which case, ditch it.
But seriously, if you can type faster on a calculator, good for you. I've never seen that except maybe for old people these days - maybe you are, and that's ok!

[TimFox]

Back when my go-to calculator was an -hp- 25, I could hold it in my right hand and hit the keys with my thumb.  That was back in the day of LED displays to run down the battery and before arthritis.

[Sal Ammoniac]

I've got two vintage HP-25's here, but the batteries have long ago failed to hold a charge and I can't find replacements, so they're just paperweights now.

[Just_another_Dave]

I know RPN has some advantages, but having used PN all my life that's probably an exercise in frustration.

Does anyone use a HP Prime and can report whether it's good for EE?

I use the HP Prime.

I chose it above all because of the excellent keypad (RSI issues require this), but I’ve been doing well with it for my electronics apprenticeship.

It does some things extremely well (like using the touch screen to easily select prior results or formulae to copy them into a calculation), others could use improvement (like the brain-dead engineering notation implementation). Overall, I’d say it’s a very, very productive calculator to work with.

Pictures don’t do justice just how much smaller it is than the TI nspire. It’s a gorgeous piece of hardware. It’s really no thicker than a typical non-graphing scientific calculator.  (It is actually thinner than my TI-30X Pro MathPrint!)

The latest firmware for it added Python support. I’m curious as to whether that will lead to more apps for it; there aren’t exactly a ton of them now, and they’re not especially exciting.

I also use the HP prime, but finding programs for it is a bit harder. Do you know if there is any website dedicated to it?

[PlainName]

Same here. Using tools on computer is much more comfortable and powerful these days.

They are, but suffer from the same issue that oscilloscopes on a PC have: there is nothing like stabbing actual buttons. I can type in a problem on a calculator far quicker than I can point to the keys on a PC,

Uh. A computer keyboard is infinitely more comfortable and faster to type on than any calculator's keyboard, unless your computer keyboard is utter crap, in which case, ditch it.
But seriously, if you can type faster on a calculator, good for you. I've never seen that except maybe for old people these days - maybe you are, and that's ok!

I think it's not that simple. Yes, a computer keyboard is faster to type on, but you're either looking at the keyboard or the screen. I am pretty sure you can't touch-type the shift-key'd cosine function on the PC though, so you're looking at the keyboard for that (assuming you can remember where it is). On the calculator it's a one-finger stab job (better for not getting digits out of order) and you can see all of the keys and all of the screen at the same time.

And, like I said, you're not interrupting whatever you were doing on the PC - switching to the calculator app then back to whatever it was and making sure the cursor is still where it was is not an instantaneous thing and probably takes longer than the calculation.

[BigBoss]

I've been using scientific calculators since 1977 and I've used many such as Casio P3600, FX750, HP48GX, TI-nspire CX CAS ( actual one) etc.
Finally found the best one.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=cz.hipercalc.pro&hl=en&showAllReviews=true
It's only 2.89 Euros for all kind of math computations.

[kevin original]

TI-36X Pro
- Cheap $20
- Lots of physical constants
- Complex numbers
- Battery and Solar
- Not too big
- Easy to use
- Does most everything except graphs

[Psi]

HP35s for me.  (can use RPN or algebraic if you want, supports both)

Although I highly recommend the windows app SpeedCrunch
It's like a calculator but on steroids.

[David Hess]

HP35s for me.  (can use RPN or algebraic if you want, supports both)

I like the multiline displays for the stack on the later HP RPN calculators, but the HP35s would be my next choice before an AOS calculator.

Although I highly recommend the windows app SpeedCrunch
It's like a calculator but on steroids.

I don't carry my computer with me all the time, and PDA batteries do not last long enough for me to rely on them.  The current style of as thin as possible has robbed portable computers of battery life.  I can think of examples in the past which could operate for weeks.  My HP50g operates for months, and at least uses easily changeable standard batteries.

[Berni]

I stopped using dedicated calculators and now use SpeedCrunch for everything:


Typing into it using a keyboard is just as fast as a calculator, does all the usual things you would do on a scientific calculator, and i can copy paste numbers in and out of it.

My only gripe with it is that it does not take SI prefixes so instead of "k" you have to use the usual "e3"

EDIT:
Actually i found a way to make it take SI perfixes. You just have to type m=1e-3, u=1e-6, n=1e-9...etc into it and it will remember it as a variable, then typing in 3u will result in 3e-6 . This is thanks to its lenient parsing where it won't be picky about extra or missing spaces, missing operators, mixed comma and dot decimals, space separated thousands etc... and will just interpret what you typed in the most sensible way. Tho its still not quite proper because it doesn't give it higher order priority than division, so typing 1/2u results in in 500e-9

[IanB]

I am pretty sure you can't touch-type the shift-key'd cosine function on the PC though, so you're looking at the keyboard for that

I can, actually, touch-type all the keys on my keyboard, including all the punctuation keys.

[Just_another_Dave]

Same here. Using tools on computer is much more comfortable and powerful these days.

They are, but suffer from the same issue that oscilloscopes on a PC have: there is nothing like stabbing actual buttons. I can type in a problem on a calculator far quicker than I can point to the keys on a PC,

Uh. A computer keyboard is infinitely more comfortable and faster to type on than any calculator's keyboard, unless your computer keyboard is utter crap, in which case, ditch it.
But seriously, if you can type faster on a calculator, good for you. I've never seen that except maybe for old people these days - maybe you are, and that's ok!

I think it's not that simple. Yes, a computer keyboard is faster to type on, but you're either looking at the keyboard or the screen. I am pretty sure you can't touch-type the shift-key'd cosine function on the PC though, so you're looking at the keyboard for that (assuming you can remember where it is). On the calculator it's a one-finger stab job (better for not getting digits out of order) and you can see all of the keys and all of the screen at the same time.

And, like I said, you're not interrupting whatever you were doing on the PC - switching to the calculator app then back to whatever it was and making sure the cursor is still where it was is not an instantaneous thing and probably takes longer than the calculation.

I find useful graphic calculators (or a tablet) when I’m working on a prototype, as I don’t usually have space in the bench to fit a laptop. As the hp prime has an app similar to excel sheets, I can annotate measurements with it and then import them to the computer without having to copy them manually from a handbook

[PlainName]

Thinking about this, there is some raving about calculator simulators going on. The perfect simulation of whatever calculator there on your desktop. I tried this once, mostly when I was looking to buy a calculator and tried its simulation, and figured it was cool in the way nixie tubes are, but it's form over function.

A PC has a mouse and keyboard for input (not to mention a relatively ginormous screen) so with a calculator simulator you're either tapping buttons with the mouse or finding weird key combinations. This was really apparent when I downloaded the aformentioned HiperCalc (windows version) which was very slick indeed but had no way to press the function keys other than clicking with a mouse.

Does your word processor have an interface that looks exactly like a typewriter? Why should your maths tool look exactly like a calculator?

So, that's pretty much the main reason I use OpalCalc. It is very much like Berni's SpeedCrunch (not tried that, but will do thanks!) but keeps the answers off to the right. The big difference is that it calculates in real time, so as you edit or type, the answer catches up. A sample screen is shown, then I went back and changed the first 4 to a 5. As I type, dependent calculations instantly changed to reflect the edit.

It also does other neat stuff like "$73.45 in £" (currently £53.53).

[emece67]

.

[Sal Ammoniac]

I've got two vintage HP-25's here, but the batteries have long ago failed to hold a charge and I can't find replacements, so they're just paperweights now.

It is easy to replace the NiCd batteries on such battery packs. You just need to cut the plastic bridge that goes along the batteries at one of its extremes. Then the cells can be pulled out.

Yes, that would be easy to do, but the real problem is that those dead battery packs were thrown away years ago.

[nfmax]

You can get (3D-printed) replacements from https://www.thecalculatorstore.com

[Sal Ammoniac]

You can get (3D-printed) replacements from https://www.thecalculatorstore.com

Thanks! I’ll do that.

[rstofer]

I know RPN has some advantages, but having used PN all my life that's probably an exercise in frustration.

Does anyone use a HP Prime and can report whether it's good for EE?

I have the calculator in daily use, right next to my mouse.  I retired about 18 years ago so my opinion on functionality is probably worthless.  But I like it!

It is not my favorite calculator, that would be the HP 48GX - I just find it easier to use.  Why use the Prime instead?  The lighted display.  Along with old age comes failing eyesight.  The Prime has a beautiful display.

Mostly I use the calculator to evaluate simple expressions.  If I want a plot, I move to MATLAB (or Octave - free).  While I could solve matrix problems on the Prime, I find it easier to use MATLAB.  If nothing else, editing is easier.

We can go on forever about the merits of RPN versus Algebraic versus Textbook entry schemes and not get anywhere.  I have been using RPN since the HP 35 came out in '73 and it just flows from my fingers.  Of course I'm going to recommend it.  And I will understand if people don't like it.

But the HP Prime has all 3 entry schemes, take your pick.

In summary, I would highly recommend the Prime

See page 13

http://www.hp.com/united-states/calculator/HP_Prime_Quick_Start_Guide_EN_2015.pdf

[rstofer]

There's an entire series of videos related to the HP Prime.  Since complex results are disabled by default, here is a good one to start with:



Search Google YouTube for 'Technology In College Algebra' to find other helpful videos.

[bsfeechannel]

In summary, I would highly recommend the Prime

Dave's gonna love this calculator. It doesn't have an explicit hyperbolic function on the keyboard, much less a dedicated hyp key.

[Just_another_Dave]

Has anyone tried numworks (https://www.numworks.com/ )?

[RJSV]

(Sorry about blurry photo, I'm a disabled engineer, renting in Silicon Valley, so cheap Google phone)
   This 'Dollar Store's calculator: Well, it got me interested in STATISTICS... A good thing to know the basics, at least...

   The calculator from Scenery Electronics Limited, model SS 6618, features STAT functions for 'standard deviation' and a couple of other basic statistics metrics.
   Course it also features a 'HYP' button, Dave...
Plus the usual 'arc hyp tan (-1 power) blabla bla.
But ALSO 'n!' (factorial), and an extensive set of binary hex and even OCTAL translations, and number 'complement. Even a 'RND' (random) key, useful for statistics.
   I focussed on the statistics part, because that's a new subject for me...
  Top lable sez "Electronic Scientific Calculator" and it's very lightweight. 8 1/2 bucks, or some such 'Dolla Store's purchasing of various over-stocked, or Mexican market over-runs they got deal (Dollar Store buys distressed production runs etc)

[armandine2]

4th example into the YouTube video above for the HP Prime (11-i)(2+3i) = 25+31i the print is so small the 31 is written as a 3.

[mansaxel]

I use the SwissMicros DM42, or, if I'm removed from it, the hp42 emulator on my phone. Or if I'm on a real computer, "dc".

[IanB]

(Sorry about blurry photo, I'm a disabled engineer, renting in Silicon Valley, so cheap Google phone)
   This 'Dollar Store's calculator: Well, it got me interested in STATISTICS... A good thing to know the basics, at least...

Here's a sharper picture. I seem to have irresistibly bought more than one of these, since it boggles the mind how such a device can be made and sold for $1. Partly for nostalgia reasons, as I remember a calculator of similar specification in 1978 would have cost about $100 in today's money (say $20 - $25 back then).

Edit: I think, if you take one apart, you find that the circuit board is made of laminated card, and the tracks going to the keys are printed in some kind of graphite material. Not that I want to destroy such a valuable item by taking one apart myself 

[David Hess]

So the HP Prime runs for 25 hours on a custom lithium-ion battery, and barely supports RPN?  That is no better than a PDA, no thanks.

[Just_another_Dave]

So the HP Prime runs for 25 hours on a custom lithium-ion battery, and barely supports RPN?  That is no better than a PDA, no thanks.

You can change it to RPN mode in the settings

[kripton2035]

I just bought a used hp prime, and it is stuck in exam mode... plug it in a computer as it should remove the exam mode, but no.
seems it doesn't work if you connect to a mac computer... I tried some old pc's I have and same problem.
I even format the internal drive, this thing is still stuck in exam mode
is there a way to reset it factory ? thanks.

[SiliconWizard]

So the HP Prime runs for 25 hours on a custom lithium-ion battery, and barely supports RPN?  That is no better than a PDA, no thanks.

 

To be fair, the Prime is a pretty good calc. Now the fact it has limited runtime on a battery charge is very annoying, I agree. While, as I said, I almost never use real calculators anymore, if I'm gonna use one occasionally, I certainly don't want to have to bother with keeping it charged at all times.

And IMHO - sure this is opinion - RPN, while pretty nice on the older and simpler calculators, isn't all that useful on more modern calculators with much largers screens, and most of all, the ability to retain the history of the last calculations - something you could never do properly in RPN, at least nowhere near as easily. All you could have an history of were "values". Not complete expressions.

It all comes done to habits and your way of working of course. But while I also was a fervent proponent of RPN back in the days, I don't really care anymore for it now. I much prefer the ability of reading all the last expressions your entered in clear, being able to recall any and just change some values, copy and paster values or expressions partially or entirely, etc. It's infinitely more productive.

But yes, habits are all personal and hard to change, so I'm just saying what works for me.

[tooki]

So the HP Prime runs for 25 hours on a custom lithium-ion battery, and barely supports RPN?  That is no better than a PDA, no thanks.

The battery is actually a really generic thing, I think originally used in some Samsung phone.

PDAs don’t have good keypads, if they have one at all. This one has likely the best keypad of any graphing calculator.

[tooki]

I just bought a used hp prime, and it is stuck in exam mode... plug it in a computer as it should remove the exam mode, but no.
seems it doesn't work if you connect to a mac computer... I tried some old pc's I have and same problem.
I even format the internal drive, this thing is still stuck in exam mode
is there a way to reset it factory ? thanks.

Just to be clear, it’s not plugging it into a computer that ends exam mode, it’s plugging it into a computer and using the appropriate command in the HP Prime Connectivity Kit software to turn off exam mode.

On the Mac, the newest version of the connectivity kit software doesn’t run on older OSes (but will still install!) so be sure to check the system requirements and use an older version if necessary. HP’s FTP server still has all the software: ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/calculators/Prime/

[tooki]

I also use the HP prime, but finding programs for it is a bit harder. Do you know if there is any website dedicated to it?

Here:
https://www.hpcalc.org/ (scroll down to Prime Apps for the category links; there’s no home page for all Prime apps)

Some are also listed here:
https://en.hpprime.club/apps

[amwales]

Why did it take this long to find SpeedCrunch? Thanks, looks awesome

[armandine2]

HP35s for me. 

Its good to have a new HP calculator with their build quality - I'm a bit disappointed with the 35s dedicated P-R omission. And generally the P-R and R-P ease of use on a calculator might be a good starting point for an electrical engineer's calculator.

On that user point I've just worked out how to get R-P and P-R on an old Casio fx-180P calculator I was put onto from another forum - used in a fluid mechanics problem .

[kripton2035]

I just bought a used hp prime, and it is stuck in exam mode... plug it in a computer as it should remove the exam mode, but no.
seems it doesn't work if you connect to a mac computer... I tried some old pc's I have and same problem.
I even format the internal drive, this thing is still stuck in exam mode
is there a way to reset it factory ? thanks.

Just to be clear, it’s not plugging it into a computer that ends exam mode, it’s plugging it into a computer and using the appropriate command in the HP Prime Connectivity Kit software to turn off exam mode.

On the Mac, the newest version of the connectivity kit software doesn’t run on older OSes (but will still install!) so be sure to check the system requirements and use an older version if necessary. HP’s FTP server still has all the software: ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/calculators/Prime/

I installed the last, then older versions of the hp connectivity kit on my mac, and the hp prime is not shown on the usb events...
so the calc doesn't appear, and I can't end the exam mode... will have to try on a pc, but I only have very old ones, and a virtual machine on the mac doesnt see the prime either.
the calc is charging though with the same cable ...

[tooki]

Try a different cable. You could have a shoddy or failed cable, or perhaps even one designed only for charging. Or the calculator’s USB port could be damaged, which would be unfortunate.

[kripton2035]

Try a different cable. You could have a shoddy or failed cable, or perhaps even one designed only for charging. Or the calculator’s USB port could be damaged, which would be unfortunate.

you are absolutely right... I thought the cable was specific to this calculator, but not it's a simple usb to micro-usb cable. I tried another cable and it exited the exam mode !!!
more to know: I did not have to launch the hp connectivity kit for that, only connecting the cable removed the exam mode.

[tooki]

Try a different cable. You could have a shoddy or failed cable, or perhaps even one designed only for charging. Or the calculator’s USB port could be damaged, which would be unfortunate.

you are absolutely right... I thought the cable was specific to this calculator, but not it's a simple usb to micro-usb cable. I tried another cable and it exited the exam mode !!!
more to know: I did not have to launch the hp connectivity kit for that, only connecting the cable removed the exam mode.

Oh really? I stand corrected. I was going by what I read somewhere.

[bson]

I also use the HP prime, but finding programs for it is a bit harder. Do you know if there is any website dedicated to it?

I too use the HP Prime for basic arithmetic in RPN mode.  It's nice because of its backlit display and good keyboard.

I took a look at it for programming and found it utterly useless.  Unlike HP calculators of the past programs don't operate on the stack but instead are expected to prompt for input and display output.  Not exactly an engineering tool anymore.  In fact, it seems the calculator is just another program even if implemented in C and compiled to native ARM code and not part of the "system". 

Otherwise my go-to calculator is Mathematica.

[Berni]

I also use the HP prime, but finding programs for it is a bit harder. Do you know if there is any website dedicated to it?

I too use the HP Prime for basic arithmetic in RPN mode.  It's nice because of its backlit display and good keyboard.

I took a look at it for programming and found it utterly useless.  Unlike HP calculators of the past programs don't operate on the stack but instead are expected to prompt for input and display output.  Not exactly an engineering tool anymore.  In fact, it seems the calculator is just another program even if implemented in C and compiled to native ARM code and not part of the "system". 

Otherwise my go-to calculator is Mathematica.

The TI Nspire calculators are pretty similar to HP Prime.

They are built from various applications like an imediate calculator, graph, spreadsheet, text editor...etc that can open up in tabs to let you quickly switch between them and copy paste data around. One of them is a script editor that lets you write programs in a scripting language (lua i think).I don't think it ever supported running native ARM code, but as always with these calculators people have created a custom bootloader that allows you to do that.

I have the old non backlit B/W display model of the TI Nspire that i used to help me get trough university. The contrast on that LCD was horrendous and was only usable in a well lit room, but then again i also found that useful because i would often cheat by loading up a bunch of text files over USB. Overall it is a pretty impressively powerful calculator. Most of the reason why i bought it over the classical TI-89 or an HP is because it will take pretty much any math problem written into it 1:1 as it is on paper and solve it. No need to put things into correct form, just give it a system of equations with any variable names you want, burry them under complex numbers, exponents, whatever... and at the push of a button it will spit out the solution to all the variables. In the case of a underdefined system it will simply include the unknown variables as part of the result. If you suddenly want to constrain a variable to be pure imaginary then you simply add another equation to the system that says Re(x)=0

That being said as impressive as the capabilities of that calculator are, it still was kinda cumbersome and slow to type in stuff. So i kept a regular scientific calculator around for the quick easy stuff. These days even that calculator is gathering dust because i use SpeedCrunch for everything now.

[armandine2]

Museum of HP calculators has some good HP Prime programs -

just programmed BESS1 into my HP Prime - simple program for Bessel functions of the 1st kind.

[tooki]

I also use the HP prime, but finding programs for it is a bit harder. Do you know if there is any website dedicated to it?

I too use the HP Prime for basic arithmetic in RPN mode.  It's nice because of its backlit display and good keyboard.

I took a look at it for programming and found it utterly useless.  Unlike HP calculators of the past programs don't operate on the stack but instead are expected to prompt for input and display output.  Not exactly an engineering tool anymore.  In fact, it seems the calculator is just another program even if implemented in C and compiled to native ARM code and not part of the "system". 

Otherwise my go-to calculator is Mathematica.

They make no secret of the fact that its math engine is based on the open-source Xcas. I don’t know the exact software stack, but I actually doubt it’s native ARM, since the exact same code runs on their desktop (Intel) calculator simulator, so I think there’s some abstraction layer.

[Just_another_Dave]

They are built from various applications like an imediate calculator, graph, spreadsheet, text editor...etc that can open up in tabs to let you quickly switch between them and copy paste data around. One of them is a script editor that lets you write programs in a scripting language (lua i think).I don't think it ever supported running native ARM code, but as always with these calculators people have created a custom bootloader that allows you to do that.

I’m not sure, but the limitation to run compiled code might be related to the exam mode (running native code might allow bypassing it). Those limitations are a bit annoying, as those calculators could be more useful for engineering if they could interact with lab equipment or run completely custom programs (the hp prime can actually be used as a data logger using HP StreamSmart 410, but just with some Fourier sensors, making it almost useless in a real lab). It would be interesting if TI or Hp created a model targeted towards engineers without any of the limitations imposed for allowing it being used in exams

[Berni]

The decision to not run machine code executable is probably more because they don't want to put the effort into developing it as a feature.

If this was a feature then they would need to provide a SDK for developing apps, create friendly APIs for interfacing to the hardware, document all of it, make it all robust enough to not blow up if an app does something stupid. The thing probably runs on more of a RTOS type OS in there so if an app crashes it would likely take the entire calculator with it. Or even worse an app could probably mess things up enough where it runs but other features of the calculator do weird stuff and bug out(making there own product look bad).

Putting in lua scripting instead gives you a "walled garden" where the program can only talk outside where you provide an means to do it. As a bonus you can also write the script on the calculator itself without having a compiler on board.

[tooki]

The two major generations of HP Prime hardware run different software stacks. The G1 runs some proprietary OS from the OEM who manufactures it, the G2 runs FreeRTOS.

Presumably atop that is the interpreter or whatever it is that actually runs the Prime “OS” if you will.

My hunch is that they basically have 4 lower-layer host OSes: the G1’s thing, FreeRTOS, Windows, and Mac. Above that I think it’s the same software, since software versions are the same across them, even bugs apply equally to all of them.

Probably makes sense to ensure mathematical results don’t vary depending on the underlying hardware, as well as allowing for exam mode, etc.

[armandine2]

Museum of HP calculators has some good HP Prime programs -

just programmed BESS1 into my HP Prime - simple program for Bessel functions of the 1st kind.

Graphing with it though was beyond me - Excel (Ed. for me) was unsurpassable!

[Berni]

Graphing with it though was beyond me - Excel (Ed. for me) was unsurpassable!

I don't think i ever used the graphing functionality of my TI Nspire graphing calculator to ever do anything useful. For me it was mostly a machine for solving systems of equations no matter how weird and complicated of a system.

[armandine2]

Might even be interesting to try out the TI Nspire, on its (Vernier) lab cradle using the voltage and ammeter sensors,  in the data logging mode.
 I should get around to doing it - having bought the gear! 

[SparkyFX]

casio fx991ex

The solar cell feature is awesome. Battery lasts a decade or more easily.

There is also an app with a similar user interface: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=uk.co.nickfines.RealCalc&hl=de&gl=US

edit: I am old, i was referring to a somewhat similar FX992s here.

[mansaxel]

casio fx991ex

The solar cell feature is awesome. Battery lasts a decade or more easily.

There is also an app with a similar user interface: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=uk.co.nickfines.RealCalc&hl=de&gl=US

edit: I am old, i was referring to a somewhat similar FX992s here.

I have a Sharp EL-506p. It's on its first set of batteries. It was bought in 1984, by my mother, for me.

Batteries probably are very toxic, but if one has to swap them every 35 years and there are better ones now, I'm OK with that.

[SiliconWizard]

I have a Sharp EL-506p. It's on its first set of batteries. It was bought in 1984, by my mother, for me.

Batteries probably are very toxic, but if one has to swap them every 35 years and there are better ones now, I'm OK with that.

This calculator works on LR44 button cells.

They certainly contained a small amount of mercury, which was the case for pretty much all button/coin cell batteries AFAIK, and even a lot of other types of primary batteries.
Mercury-free batteries are a relativey "recent" trend due to environmental regulations. You can absolutely find mercury-free LR44 batteries these days. They may not last as long as 35 years, but they'll be good enough.

[PlainName]

Got a Casio FX-450 in the garage which hasn't seen daylight in 20 years or so. I am fairly sure I bought it around 1987, so it's about 34 years old. It will still power on just from the overhead (now not very bright) 2ft fluorescent tube over the bench, although nowadays I am reluctant to use it in case the hinge gives up.

[BreakingOhmsLaw]

Well, this thread blew up unexpectedly. Thanks to every contributor for their input. I have bought an HP Prime now and so far I'm very happy with it. Still learning to drive it, but it is really nice.
I've meddled with RPN a bit, but really can't understand the often quoted advantage that it is less buttons pushes. Having to push the space button to separate operator eats up this advantage, at least for simple operations, which make up the majority of day-to-day use.
Of course on more complex operations, I can see that it has its charms.
That said, with the possibilities of the HP Prime, you would probably be even more productive just creating a program for the job.
Going to order an 991 as well, just to have a backup in the drawer.

[Berni]

The RPN thing is mostly because old calculators often used it and people got used to it, especially the financial calculators, then HP used it on a lot of calculators too and they got pretty popular too. People get used to it and just prefer it.

Similar to the new dual row scientific calculators with cursors. People who are used to the classic ones usually don't like them. However i am young enough that the new dual row ones ware already around back when i was in school, so i much prefer the new ones. I don't have the mental muscle memory to think about order of operations when keying stuff into a calculator, since these modern calculators do that on there own. I also make lots of use of the cursor where i go back and try modifying a value and quickly get the result recalculated, or go back up the history list and grab something i already typed in previously to save me the time. This is why i love SpeedCrunch on the PC, it works in a similar way. In my opinion this is how things should work since we are no longer bound by limitations of 80s consumer LCD display technology.

So the ideal calculator is really a lot about personal taste.

[bson]

It's not about pressing fewer buttons, it's about ease of chaining calculations.  Especially calculations involving multiple results.  Even your typical algebraic calculator isn't strictly algebraic, for example you press 45 SIN to calculate a sine.  Because if you have a result from a previous calculation, like 45, and want the sine of that it's cumbersome to turn it into SINE(45).  Many algebraic systems, like Mathematica, have a history and can refer to previous values, so you might say Sin[%14] to accomplish the same.  In effect, the stack is exactly a "history" of calculations, or a notepad you can operate on.  Something like Mathematica, while superior, would be very difficult to use meaningfully in a calculator form factor.

[TimFox]

I like my Swiss Micros (link posted above in my earlier response) DM41X that uses RPN and displays the four-line stack.

[kripton2035]

because of this thread, I bought a used hp prime and I really begin to like it.
what I like most is the big tactile screen, you can tap on a result, scroll up/down, copy and the selected formula is at the input again.
very nice and speedy.

[armandine2]

I did a reset on my HP Prime the other day (not so easy to press three of the front buttons and poke a paper clip in the backside LOL). It did get the Geometry App to work again, though.

Re Swiss Micros - close but no cigar

[BreakingOhmsLaw]

So the ideal calculator is really a lot about personal taste.

Truer words have never been spoken.

I did not yet find a way of efficiently converting decimal/binary/hex on the HP Prime. If anyone knows a good practice, please let me know.

[SiliconWizard]

The RPN thing is mostly because old calculators often used it and people got used to it, especially the financial calculators, then HP used it on a lot of calculators too and they got pretty popular too. People get used to it and just prefer it.

At the time, compared to a typical "non-RPN" calculator, I must admit it was a big improvement. Mainly because said "algebraic" input was really an odd mix of stuff. You'd still not exactly press buttons in the order you'd write algebraic expressions, for instance regarding functions. And since they didn't display the whole expression anyway on screen, it was really hard to see what you were doing and keep track of it.

Of course, with modern calculators with much larger screens which show full expressions as written on paper, this is something completely different, and as I said, the ability to see full expressions, and an history of them, is much more practical than just RPN entry with a stack of numbers. Things change.

So the ideal calculator is really a lot about personal taste.

Yes of course. And habits.

[tooki]

So the ideal calculator is really a lot about personal taste.

Truer words have never been spoken.

I did not yet find a way of efficiently converting decimal/binary/hex on the HP Prime. If anyone knows a good practice, please let me know.

Pressing Base (Shift + minus sign) twice in a row (from the empty command line) opens the Edit Integer window. Press the Edit soft key and all the numbers become editable. Handy for bit masks and stuff.

[emece67]

.

[TimFox]

The Swiss DM41X I mentioned above does display the second column of your proposal (four numerical values in the stack), but not the third column (expressions).
The first time (around 1971) I encountered RPN was in a (huge) Friden 132 desktop calculator (with CRT display), introduced in 1965 after adding the square root function to the earlier 130.
It also displayed all four levels of the stack, as in the DM41X.  However, it was inherently fixed-point: a thumbwheel switch shifted the decimal point on the display, but all lines had the same position.
Prior to that, I did learn non-reverse Polish notation in a symbolic logic class, where the operator is placed ahead of the operands.  It had several advantages over "Russel-Whitehead" notation for symbolic logic, including no special characters and no parentheses.  As immature students, we joked that it was called "Polish notation" because none of us could pronounce "Łukasiewicz", especially backwards for reverse Polish notation.

[tooki]

Also, some more HP Prime tips and tricks:

- One of the first things I did was to program a few user functions for calculating parallel resistors. (I named them PAR2, PAR3, and PAR4.) Saves buttloads of time: I just type e.g. PAR2(1E3, 4E3) and Enter to get 800.

- The Triangle Solver app added in the May 2021 OS update is basically a trigonometry app that doesn’t say it’s trigonometry. Useful for vector addition.

- Entering units is clumsy, but useful on occasion nonetheless. But it won’t automatically parse units themselves (as in, if you calculate volts divided by amps, the output will be in volts over amps, not in ohms.) But the USIMPLIFY (unit simplify) function will do it, so enter USIMPLIFY(Ans) and it’ll tell you the output is ohms.

- The Sketch command in the menu of the graph (in the standard Function app) isn’t to let you doodle on a graph. You draw a curve and it attempts to find a formula to fit it! If you first set the scale accurately and then draw carefully, it’s surprisingly close. (For the handful of formula types it recognizes, like linear, quadratic, and sine functions, that is.)

- The Help is quite useful. You can press it pretty much anywhere and get a basic description of a feature.

- The May 2021 update added the ability to save and load your calculation history, which can be handy if you are working on different things alternately. But equally useful is the ability to duplicate apps. For example, if you’re working on some task that requires you to solve two different sets of linear systems, you can duplicate the Linear Solver app so that you can keep one set in one instance and the other set in the other instance, instead of clearing and re-entering the unchanged data over and over.

The top right corner is a tappable button that brings up the battery percentage, buttons to switch between degrees and radians, and the time and date, which you can tap again to bring up a calendar.

[rsjsouza]

So the ideal calculator is really a lot about personal taste.

Truer words have never been spoken.

I did not yet find a way of efficiently converting decimal/binary/hex on the HP Prime. If anyone knows a good practice, please let me know.

Indeed. Over the years I always used one of the advanced RPN calculators mentioned here for such base conversion operations (HP48SX/GX, HP35S), but a few years ago I got a vintage TI programmable that is tailored for this and has single button operations for base conversions and logic operations. The only two limitations are battery consumption (I have the older model with LED display, but there is a newer with LCD) and 32-bit only (covers 90% of my needs).
Result: I ended up with two calculators on my main desk and a few others sprinkled around my workstations.

[blacksheeplogic]

Indeed. Over the years I always used one of the advanced RPN calculators mentioned here for such base conversion operations (HP48SX/GX, HP35S), but a few years ago I got a vintage TI programmable that is tailored for this and has single button operations for base conversions and logic operations. The only two limitations are battery consumption (I have the older model with LED display, but there is a newer with LCD) and 32-bit only (covers 90% of my needs).
Result: I ended up with two calculators on my main desk and a few others sprinkled around my workstations.

I have a both an HP Prime and TI nSpire. The TI nSpire always needs charging and the HP Prime is better in every way to use. But for quick and easy I use a Sharp EL-515S. It's 3 decades old 10 digit LCD, thin & small. For quick calculation esp base conversions I'm done before any of my newer calculators boot.

[PlainName]

The FX-991ES is single-key conversion between bases (the primary reason I got this model). I though the Prime looks nice and have had the simulator on my desktop to try out and can't believe how difficult it is to do this kind of stuff. Even just entering a hex digit, for instance, needs FIVE extra keys not counting the actual number! It's ridiculous.

[rsjsouza]

Indeed. Over the years I always used one of the advanced RPN calculators mentioned here for such base conversion operations (HP48SX/GX, HP35S), but a few years ago I got a vintage TI programmable that is tailored for this and has single button operations for base conversions and logic operations. The only two limitations are battery consumption (I have the older model with LED display, but there is a newer with LCD) and 32-bit only (covers 90% of my needs).
Result: I ended up with two calculators on my main desk and a few others sprinkled around my workstations.

I have a both an HP Prime and TI nSpire. The TI nSpire always needs charging and the HP Prime is better in every way to use. But for quick and easy I use a Sharp EL-515S. It's 3 decades old 10 digit LCD, thin & small. For quick calculation esp base conversions I'm done before any of my newer calculators boot.

Quite interesting. In a modern professional environment, the concept of booting a "standalone" calculator is mind boggling.

I remember in early 1990s the PC-based dictionaries sold for a pretty penny and they weren't very common in the households due to the presence of a real, paperback one in a shelf: "why would you power up the computer and wait all that time to just look up for a word?" was the common motto for the detractors at the time. This was before computers were left powered on all the time and took quite a long time to boot and load a program.

[David Hess]

The FX-991ES is single-key conversion between bases (the primary reason I got this model). I though the Prime looks nice and have had the simulator on my desktop to try out and can't believe how difficult it is to do this kind of stuff. Even just entering a hex digit, for instance, needs FIVE extra keys not counting the actual number! It's ridiculous.

I would have liked something like an HP48/HP50 but oriented more toward engineering and programming, with easy access to base conversions.  The way HP did it was kind of cumbersome.

I remember in early 1990s the PC-based dictionaries sold for a pretty penny and they weren't very common in the households due to the presence of a real, paperback one in a shelf: "why would you power up the computer and wait all that time to just look up for a word?" was the common motto for the detractors at the time. This was before computers were left powered on all the time and took quite a long time to boot and load a program.

The first dictionary and "encyclopedia" CD-ROMs were pretty expensive also, like the first movies on videotape.

[PlainName]

The first dictionary and "encyclopedia" CD-ROMs were pretty expensive also

They still are if you want authoritative ones!

[SiliconWizard]

The first dictionary and "encyclopedia" CD-ROMs were pretty expensive also

They still are if you want authoritative ones!

Yep. These days they'll come in DVD form and are not cheap.

[Berni]

Pretty sure the vast majority of calculator sales these days are to students because a calculator is the only tool they are allowed to use in class/tests.

It's the reason why i bought that TI Nspire back then. It was the most capable piece of electronic help i was allowed to use. Didn't actually end up using it that much afterwards and has now been collecting dust on a shelf for years. I kept using a TI scientific calculator for a good while because its fast to use. But these days i use SpeedCrunch or my phone.

The classical math teacher line "You won't always have a calculator in your pocket".. well not only we do have one constantly in our pockets, it  also has more computing power than those supercomputers from the 80s.

[mansaxel]

Quite interesting. In a modern professional environment, the concept of booting a "standalone" calculator is mind boggling.

The SwissMicros DM42 is instant-on. No waiting. (it also retains the stack, which is quite useful.) Takes far less time than launching the Free42 app on my phone. Unless, of course, I have to go fetch the calculator. Then phone wins easily, assuming I'm carrying the phone.

Yes, the practice of having a standalone is relegated to old farts, people who hate computing (sic) and exams. And, people who love and support the project of building new RPN standalones.

[2N3055]

Pretty sure the vast majority of calculator sales these days are to students because a calculator is the only tool they are allowed to use in class/tests.

It's the reason why i bought that TI Nspire back then. It was the most capable piece of electronic help i was allowed to use. Didn't actually end up using it that much afterwards and has now been collecting dust on a shelf for years. I kept using a TI scientific calculator for a good while because its fast to use. But these days i use SpeedCrunch or my phone.

The classical math teacher line "You won't always have a calculator in your pocket".. well not only we do have one constantly in our pockets, it  also has more computing power than those supercomputers from the 80s.

I also bought Nspire years ago and after initial playing with it, I used it very little. Casio FX61F is just much simpler for fast and quick ( and has impedance mode with parallel operator no other calc has ). For more complicated stuff I go to PC or phone.
I like HyperCalc and RealCalc (Casio emulation) on a phone.

My son used Nspire some in last few years because of symbolic math, but also drives fx991 and piece of paper as his daily driver. For anything more complicated he goes to PC too.

[blacksheeplogic]

My son used Nspire some in last few years because of symbolic math, but also drives fx991 and piece of paper as his daily driver. For anything more complicated he goes to PC too.

The Casio fx-CG10 is not a bad upgrade, I used it for a while. The NSpire CX is about the worst I've used.

[rsjsouza]

I would have liked something like an HP48/HP50 but oriented more toward engineering and programming, with easy access to base conversions.  The way HP did it was kind of cumbersome.

Although the HP48 relegates the base conversion to a submenu of the Math button (understandable given its main focus), the data entry with a preceding hash symbol to denote base notations is easy enough for my taste. Sure, it is not as straightforward as a specialized calculator, but given it remembers the menus through a power off helps keep the functionality at hand. Also, being programmable, it helps that you can create your own routines for fast access.

The first dictionary and "encyclopedia" CD-ROMs were pretty expensive also, like the first movies on videotape.

Indeed - their price was very inflated due to the novelty of the technology. We also didn't have encyclopaedias as everything was in English back then.

Casio FX61F is just much simpler for fast and quick ( and has impedance mode with parallel operator no other calc has ). For more complicated stuff I go to PC or phone.
I like HyperCalc and RealCalc (Casio emulation) on a phone.

I never understood the fixation on the FX61F and its "electronic" functions. Sure, it is a "fit for purpose" gadget and was a cute novelty at the time, but even back then I was already doing that and much more in my dad's (already ancient) TI-59 programmable calculator.

[2N3055]

I never understood the fixation on the FX61F and its "electronic" functions. Sure, it is a "fit for purpose" gadget and was a cute novelty at the time, but even back then I was already doing that and much more in my dad's (already ancient) TI-59 programmable calculator.

I could say same about RPN... :-)

I wouldn't call it fixation :-).
And it is not about programmable either.

As I said, the "parallel" operator allows you to type dc networks pretty much directly into calculator...
Also it has Si sufixes.

It's just easy to use for simple stuff..
I already used Mathcad III on DOS for more complicated stuff looong time ago...

[SiliconWizard]

Pretty sure the vast majority of calculator sales these days are to students because a calculator is the only tool they are allowed to use in class/tests.

Yes. And it's easy to see. Almost all calculators released in the last 10 to 15 years are calculators designed for students.
Swissmicros is an exception - it's just a niche company for a niche market.

[rsjsouza]

I never understood the fixation on the FX61F and its "electronic" functions. Sure, it is a "fit for purpose" gadget and was a cute novelty at the time, but even back then I was already doing that and much more in my dad's (already ancient) TI-59 programmable calculator.

I could say same about RPN... :-)

Care to elaborate? Are there any other methods of data entry apart from RPN?

I use both methods without problems, but indeed prefer our Polish's friends M.O.

At any rate, it was not a jab at you but instead a remark about the frenzy caused when Dave mentioned the FX-61 several years back in a few random videos...

I already used Mathcad III on DOS for more complicated stuff looong time ago...

Ah... Those were the days: Mathcad, Matlab... And then we got ahold of Wolfram's Mathematica that blew our minds - terribly slow and only worked with Postscript graphics, but impressive at calculating Pi with any arbitrary number of decimal places. All this was followed by Chiwriter, Electronics Workbench, PSPICE, OrCAD (all DOS)...

[Terry Bites]

Slide rule 9000.

[Vtile]

The machine you do describe is RPN/RPL native 48x -> 50g family, with algebraic expression support (as object in stack) and unlimited stack depth (by RAM limit)...
In theory RPL, but it is more semantic.

Anyone reading I would suggest Droid48 if you like RPN or are interested (HP48 simulator, Android app, free).

Also interesting project is NewRPL OS, which have native support for 48x series command set. I think there is now versions for HP prime HW also.

SwissMicros DM42 (1980s + 2020s) or DM15 (1970s) for rpn machines, which support complex numbers. Someone will mention DM41, but those are more for HP fans who have prior experience of the original.

I use mainly RPN machines. Find it faster and easier, maybe because I find it more suited to «translate» the calculation I want to perform to keystrokes.

But having a log of previously entered expressions is a really nice, even more if you can recall such expressions and re-evaluate/edit them.

So I'm now thinking if it wouldn't be a way to combine both models. Say a machine where you use RPN to perform the calculations, and the machine keeps two stacks, one with the numerical value of the calculations and another one with the algebraic expression (obtained from the RPN keystrokes) that evaluates to such number. Say:


Nice or brain fart?

[armandine2]

interesrested.

like most people, who are interested in purchasing as consumers, quality and attention to the details go a long way to satisfying our needs.

[SteveyG]

casio fx991ex

I use a fx991es mostly because it's quicker to switch between decimal, hex and binary answers.

But I also use OpenCalc on the PC. And Electrodroid on my phone. And Omni Calculator: https://www.omnicalculator.com/

I use the FX-991MS. You can use engineering notation directly which can be handy.

[PlainName]

Gosh, how many versions do they have? There's apparently an RS as well. Couldn't find anything that spelled out the differences, though.

[tooki]

casio fx991ex

I use a fx991es mostly because it's quicker to switch between decimal, hex and binary answers.

But I also use OpenCalc on the PC. And Electrodroid on my phone. And Omni Calculator: https://www.omnicalculator.com/

I use the FX-991MS. You can use engineering notation directly which can be handy.

You mean metric SI prefixes, not engineering notation.
Engineering notation means things like 270ᴇ3 (meaning 270×10³) for 270000, whereas with metric SI prefixes that’s 270k.

Practically any scientific calculator can do scientific notation (exponent notation like 2.7ᴇ5) and engineering notation (same as scientific, but with the exponent always in multiples of 3, like 270ᴇ3). It’s metric SI prefixes that are rare as hen’s teeth.

Edited per my reply to rsjsouza.

[rsjsouza]

Interesting; I haven't seen it called "metric" before.

I learned to call them SI prefixes or SI multipliers, since in my home country we were already immersed in the metric system and the word "metric" would be redundant anyways.

Perhaps my google-fu skills are lacking, but the several references on the internet that mention "metric prefixes" seem to be originated in the U.S.

[tooki]

Interesting; I haven't seen it called "metric" before.

I learned to call them SI prefixes or SI multipliers, since in my home country we were already immersed in the metric system and the word "metric" would be redundant anyways.

Perhaps my google-fu skills are lacking, but the several references on the internet that mention "metric prefixes" seem to be originated in the U.S.

No, you’re entirely correct, calling them “metric” prefixes instead of SI prefixes is nothing but a brain fart on my part. I’ll chalk that up to the neck spasm I’ve been dealing with for the past 3 days… :/

[rsjsouza]

Interesting; I haven't seen it called "metric" before.

I learned to call them SI prefixes or SI multipliers, since in my home country we were already immersed in the metric system and the word "metric" would be redundant anyways.

Perhaps my google-fu skills are lacking, but the several references on the internet that mention "metric prefixes" seem to be originated in the U.S.

No, you’re entirely correct, calling them “metric” prefixes instead of SI prefixes is nothing but a brain fart on my part. I’ll chalk that up to the neck spasm I’ve been dealing with for the past 3 days… :/

Hope you feel better soon!

[eti]

To those who don’t use physical calculators:

~ A physical one sits there for years, rarely if ever needs a new battery. It doesn’t distract, it doesn’t chirp and beep, nor cause you to check your antisocial media nonsense.

~ A physical one just… IS. It exists, it’s buttons are there for you without a second thought - within reach - within your muscle memory.

~ Single purpose objects are still as valuable as they always were. You don’t need to unlock a screen, swipe, tap, fanny about etc.

[David Hess]

- The batteries last from months to years, are inexpensive, commonly available, and user replaceable.

- The display does not occupy screen space, or require an additional monitor.

- Requires only a minimum of space on the desk, or possibly none at all. (1)

- If RPN, will discourage others from borrowing it. (2)

- Pocket portable.

(1) I particularly despise test instruments which require a mouse and keyboard taking up even more of the limited space on my workbench.  One keyboard and mouse is enough.

(2) Vernier instruments share this advantage.

[PlainName]

(1) I particularly despise test instruments which require a mouse and keyboard taking up even more of the limited space on my workbench.  One keyboard and mouse is enough.

Going to disagree here, at least partly.

I have an EEZ BB3 PSU on my desk (not bench, so it's competing with the usual office detritus) and the thing I lurve about it is the mouse. I can control the PSU even though I can't reach it without stretching, and despite being wired the mouse doesn't take up much space and is easy to stow when not in use. A wireless jobby might be even easier.

OTOH, on the bench there is a mouse for the microscope and another for the PC, and there is often not room to move them. Not helped by both being wireless and of similar design so I tend to start waving the wrong one.

Gotta be swings and roundabouts on this one, I think.

(My Logitech mouse will connect to three devices just by pressing a button, but that seems like a) too much work, b) losing track of what's being controlled, and c) reducing everything to single-tasking.)

[SteveyG]

casio fx991ex

I use a fx991es mostly because it's quicker to switch between decimal, hex and binary answers.

But I also use OpenCalc on the PC. And Electrodroid on my phone. And Omni Calculator: https://www.omnicalculator.com/

I use the FX-991MS. You can use engineering notation directly which can be handy.

You mean metric SI prefixes, not engineering notation.
Engineering notation means things like 270ᴇ3 (meaning 270×10³) for 270000, whereas with metric SI prefixes that’s 270k.

Practically any scientific calculator can do scientific notation (exponent notation like 2.7ᴇ5) and engineering notation (same as scientific, but with the exponent always in multiples of 3, like 270ᴇ3). It’s metric SI prefixes that are rare as hen’s teeth.

Edited per my reply to rsjsouza.

I did mean engineering notation, in that it will automatically keep all output in that format. It does SI prefixes in and out too with only the shift keystroke. I've not found a calculator that will remain in either mode without needing to press a key every time to convert.

[tooki]

I use the FX-991MS. You can use engineering notation directly which can be handy.

You mean metric SI prefixes, not engineering notation.
Engineering notation means things like 270ᴇ3 (meaning 270×10³) for 270000, whereas with metric SI prefixes that’s 270k.

Practically any scientific calculator can do scientific notation (exponent notation like 2.7ᴇ5) and engineering notation (same as scientific, but with the exponent always in multiples of 3, like 270ᴇ3). It’s metric SI prefixes that are rare as hen’s teeth.

Edited per my reply to rsjsouza.

I did mean engineering notation, in that it will automatically keep all output in that format. It does SI prefixes in and out too with only the shift keystroke. I've not found a calculator that will remain in either mode without needing to press a key every time to convert.

LOL what? I have multiple scientific calculators in arm’s reach and they all stay in engineering notation. Very basic ones (like my mid-90s solar-only TI-36X) will revert if you do a full “all clear”, more advanced ones do not. My HP Prime lives permanently in engineering notation.

It’s certainly not a conversion applied to a number after the fact!!

[David Hess]

I did mean engineering notation, in that it will automatically keep all output in that format. It does SI prefixes in and out too with only the shift keystroke. I've not found a calculator that will remain in either mode without needing to press a key every time to convert.

LOL what? I have multiple scientific calculators in arm’s reach and they all stay in engineering notation. Very basic ones (like my mid-90s solar-only TI-36X) will revert if you do a full “all clear”, more advanced ones do not. My HP Prime lives permanently in engineering notation.

It’s certainly not a conversion applied to a number after the fact!!

I took that to mean a calculator which supports engineering and SI prefixes, and continues to use whichever one is selected without additional keystrokes.  I think the HP48/HP50 only supports SI prefixes for conversions but I remember a friend with a Casio that did conversions and might have done SI prefixes.

[tooki]

Yes, that’s what I assumed he meant, but since he insists it’s not…

[jonpaul]

 My favorite is still the Tektronix Circuit Computer circular slide rule circa 1961, were given by Tek reps, very rare. I use it often.

Super useful and practical for all RLC circuit computations /Zo/ with ranges to 100 M Ohm, 1 GHz, 1 femtoF etc.

https://vintagetek.org/tektronix-circuit-computer/

I still have two, the cursor plastic is easily damaged.

Bon Chance,

Jon

[PlainName]

I'm surprised no-one has made copies of these and others.

[SiliconWizard]

As I mentioned before, I mostly use computer tools these days rather than a physical calculator (unless of course I don't have a computer around.)

For symbolic calculation, mainly Maxima (wxMaxima) and for numeric stuff, I was mainly using "calc" ( https://github.com/lcn2/calc ). Lightweight, arbitrary precision, interpreted language close to C, easy to use.

I tried again Qalculate (last time I had tried it was years ago, and I was not hugely impressed) lately, and it has become very good. It almost instantly became my go-to calculator. I highly suggest to at least have a try! It does pretty much everything people have talked about here, and more.
https://qalculate.github.io/index.html

[PlainName]

I am trying it out and keep getting stuff I'm not expecting. It is presumably the way I expect it to work is not the way it actually works, and I'm not sure I want to have two different realities to choose from depending on which app I am using.

As a trivial example, I type '12' in decimal mode and '=', click the HEX button. I expect to see 0x0C (or similar) but instead I see 0x12. My FX-991 in BASE-N mode acts in the following way: when entering the number in decimal mode, pressing HEX before hitting return will simply change the entry mode to hex (so 0x12). After hitting return, pressing HEX converts decimal to hex (so 0x0C).

OK, I want to convert 12 ft to something. So, back to decimal then select the conversion pane, select Length... Foot. The answer is "~39 ft + 4.440 944 882 in".

It's probably very cool if you operate it how it expects to be operated but, personally, if I'm not 100% sure it's showing what I think it should then I can't trust it.

[SiliconWizard]

A few hints:
- Don't use the virtual keyboard - I think those are useless and a waste of time on desktop calculator applications. But if you still want to use it rather than use menus or read the manual, use pop-up hints on buttons. Here you'll see that the 'base' buttons select the base for *entries* on a single click, but a right click or long click will make them act as switches for the base of the result instead. But I personally have the virtual keyboard hidden, it's just an annoyance IMHO.
- Read the manual. You'll discover a lot of stuff.
- Conversions are one of Qalculate's strong points. You can convert any expression using the "to" keyword. Much more productive than trying to find the right button or the right menu item. It's a computer tool, use it a such, not as a poor substitute for a physical calculator.

As for trusting the base of the result, it will always be shown (in subscript) unless it's decimal (which is default). So you can't go wrong. Again, read the manual, and after a couple minutes only I can guarantee you that you'll be up to speed.

[PlainName]

I did read some of the manual, specifically the bit relating to conversions.

Call me simple, but there comes a time when there are some many magic key presses and mouse gestures that one just can't remember them all. Or even a fraction. So while it might make sense to the developer that doing x then y with a superposition of z will obviously lead to something,  as a multi-application user I am thinking "is that u or v, and is it this app or some other one". Just give me a clear button to press, a menu to select from, etc. If I get to use the thing enough I'll drift into using the magic shortcuts, but as a new user life is too short.

I like the way that this app pops us choices as you type, and the base subscript. There were many other things I wrote in response to your comment but I decided they were probably best not posted

[Berni]

You are not supposed to remember all the magic key combination shortcuts. You can typically do it with a menu, but you usually get to remember the ones you use the most often.

But i do agree that on screen keypads on calculators are the wrong way to do it. The windows calculator is the most popular example of it. A lot of people don't even know they can type in numbers using a keyboard and instead click numbers with a mouse (slow and clumsy). All the buttons in Windows Calc actually are mapped to a keyboard key, however good luck remembering what key does Sine, 1/x or Pi, there are no hints in the UI for it.

This is the main reason why i go for a text based calculator like SpeedCrunch. It's just a text box for me to type the expression into. I might not know the shortcut for Sine in Windows Calc, but here i can just type out "sin" and it works, everyone knows computers call the sine function sin. If i want a hex number input i just do "0x12" and it knows to treat it as hex.

For symbolic calculation, mainly Maxima (wxMaxima) and for numeric stuff, I was mainly using "calc" ( https://github.com/lcn2/calc ). Lightweight, arbitrary precision, interpreted language close to C, easy to use.

Feeding C-like code into a calculator is a pretty neat feature i never saw before. Don't think i would find a actual use for it very often, but i can see some rare cases where this might be really useful.

[PlainName]

however good luck remembering what key does Sine, 1/x or Pi

Well, presactly. It's pointless (ho ho) typing numbers if you then have to pop up menus or hover-hints and stuff. Just quicker and simpler to do the whole thing with the GUI.

[EEVblog]

Gosh, how many versions do they have? There's apparently an RS as well. Couldn't find anything that spelled out the differences, though.

Yeah, crazy that they use the same primary model number for vastly different calcs. For basic daily use the MS would be more suitable, and it has the engineering exponent keys.
You have to take your hat off to the EX though for removing the primary HYP key.

[snarkysparky]

I like this

http://speedcrunch.org/index.html

[ledtester]

My favorite is still the Tektronix Circuit Computer circular slide rule circa 1961, were given by Tek reps, very rare. I use it often.

Super useful and practical for all RLC circuit computations /Zo/ with ranges to 100 M Ohm, 1 GHz, 1 femtoF etc.

https://vintagetek.org/tektronix-circuit-computer/

I still have two, the cursor plastic is easily damaged.

Bon Chance,

Jon

That's a nice blast from the past... "cycles" instead of Hertz, "millimicro", "micromicro" and "millimicromicro" instead of nano, pico and femto.

[PlainName]

If I get to use the thing enough I'll drift into using the magic shortcuts....

Well not yet using shortcuts but I might be less ambivalent about this one that my earlier posts suggest. I might go as far as to say it is kind of OK.