Author Topic: What's the real reason that laptop batteries are made not-accessible?  (Read 22482 times)

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Offline Miyuki

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Re: What's the real reason that laptop batteries are made not-accessible?
« Reply #150 on: December 10, 2021, 10:58:40 am »
And now I have a $200 phone instead of a $800 phone. It features a high-capacity battery and a headphone jack. I can even use it to call people. Sometimes I miss my old phones camera (it was really good) but it is a phone, that can make pictures, and no camera I can make calls with.
Yes you made your vote with a wallet
There is plenty of choice on the market. Smaller manufacturers fill the gaps in the market.
Phone market have reasonably small blocks to enter the market. Everything that people will buy is manufactured.
Phones like this will be made and sold as long as some people will buy them. But there is not a lot of people who buy them.
 

Offline heutnoch

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Re: What's the real reason that laptop batteries are made not-accessible?
« Reply #151 on: December 10, 2021, 11:31:28 am »
Yes, there is no ideal phone for anyone. Or for very very few people. You can try to balance things out. I for my part am happier, when I’m a little unhappy about some aspects of a phone, that did only cost me $200. And while it is sometimes useful to have internet to go in your pocket, I don’t really use it as a multimedia platform, for gaming or other demanding stuff. So why pay for it? Different people use their phones in different ways and buy different phones. That’s why there is a market.

It might also be a smart choice (for some people) to buy a phone, that costed $1000 a few years ago. The specs might be similar to a budget pone in many regards, but I guess the investment into developing a flagship phone is higher. Pictures and sound might be better, power consumption more optimized and so on.

And yeah, a brand-new flagship phone can be a damn nice piece of technic you just want to own for… reasons. I’m not immune to that. I tried it out and might do so again at some point.

But as you can’t expect to find a phone, that meets your demand in every single feature, you can’t conclude that a sold phone is a vote, that every single design decision was the right one in the buyers opinion. And you can’t expect every buyer to know, how to rate design decisions.
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: What's the real reason that laptop batteries are made not-accessible?
« Reply #152 on: December 10, 2021, 11:55:47 am »
Quote
A more similar comparison would be HDMI, Displayport or whatever they are using now disappearing and being replaced by a wireless video standard that requires purchasing a new monitor or using a dongle.

My Dell laptop of some years came without an RJ45 port (too thick for the case, I think). I have to use a USB->Ethernet dongle. And I think many laptops now come with USB-C only, so if you want serial or network of even video you're going to need a dongle.

Hmmm. Thinking about all the stuff that's missing nowadays (optical drive, before that floppy drive, miscellaneous ports) it seems like Apple was the first to jump ship and everyone else followed.
 

Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: What's the real reason that laptop batteries are made not-accessible?
« Reply #153 on: December 10, 2021, 01:25:55 pm »
It's a lot different. VGA had been going away for a while, it was always an inferior solution for digital flat panels which have had DVI for at least 20 years. The only thing VGA makes any sense for is CRT monitors and those have been out of production for years. Analog audio products are widespread and still in production. The analog headphone jack is superior to bluetooth in many ways and it is still used by countless people. This is apples and oranges. A more similar comparison would be HDMI, Displayport or whatever they are using now disappearing and being replaced by a wireless video standard that requires purchasing a new monitor or using a dongle.
Every smartphone I'm aware of still supports wired audio output, just in digital form.
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Offline SilverSolder

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Re: What's the real reason that laptop batteries are made not-accessible?
« Reply #154 on: December 10, 2021, 01:52:41 pm »
And now I have a $200 phone instead of a $800 phone. It features a high-capacity battery and a headphone jack. I can even use it to call people. Sometimes I miss my old phones camera (it was really good) but it is a phone, that can make pictures, and no camera I can make calls with.
Yes you made your vote with a wallet
There is plenty of choice on the market. Smaller manufacturers fill the gaps in the market.
Phone market have reasonably small blocks to enter the market. Everything that people will buy is manufactured.
Phones like this will be made and sold as long as some people will buy them. But there is not a lot of people who buy them.

The "flagship phones" are promoted heavily with advertising and media trend setters etc., and fetch a premium price.  It almost doesn't matter what the technology is at that level, as long as customers can be convinced it is "the best"...
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: What's the real reason that laptop batteries are made not-accessible?
« Reply #155 on: December 10, 2021, 01:58:03 pm »
[...]
And you can buy noname wireless earbuds for a single-digit price. They are manufactured in huge numbers because people want them.

I don't know for a fact because I haven't looked, but I would be very surprised if the Apple wireless earbuds used an open protocol that allows competing products to be made...
 

Offline Miyuki

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Re: What's the real reason that laptop batteries are made not-accessible?
« Reply #156 on: December 10, 2021, 04:19:02 pm »
[...]
And you can buy noname wireless earbuds for a single-digit price. They are manufactured in huge numbers because people want them.

I don't know for a fact because I haven't looked, but I would be very surprised if the Apple wireless earbuds used an open protocol that allows competing products to be made...
They are Bluetooth compatible audio device
They work with any device and the same way you can use any Bluetooth earbuds with an apple phone
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: What's the real reason that laptop batteries are made not-accessible?
« Reply #157 on: December 10, 2021, 04:39:45 pm »
[...]
And you can buy noname wireless earbuds for a single-digit price. They are manufactured in huge numbers because people want them.

I don't know for a fact because I haven't looked, but I would be very surprised if the Apple wireless earbuds used an open protocol that allows competing products to be made...
They are Bluetooth compatible audio device
They work with any device and the same way you can use any Bluetooth earbuds with an apple phone

Fair enough.

I did stumble on the paragraph below, a propos the whole question of sealed batteries, which also affects Airpods, apparently:

"The lithium-ion batteries in AirPods can see significant degradation over time, with two-year-old sets lasting for less than half of the advertised five hours. Apple has a program to service batteries and purchase replacement individual AirPods and charging cases. The replacement of one or both AirPods or the charging case has a lower price with AppleCare+ than without. Apple offers battery servicing for free with AppleCare+ and for a fee without. However, this is just a replacement service, as AirPods batteries cannot be removed."

 

Offline james_s

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Re: What's the real reason that laptop batteries are made not-accessible?
« Reply #158 on: December 10, 2021, 08:31:42 pm »
Every smartphone I'm aware of still supports wired audio output, just in digital form.

Maybe you can show me how to plug headphones or an external amplifier into a current generation iPhone while it's charging because I can only seem to find one single connector that can be used for one thing or the other.

The point remains that I can't plug in any of my existing headphones with the new ones, and I can do so with the older one I have, so the new models have taken away useful functionality while offering nothing to me in return for that loss of functionality and convenience.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: What's the real reason that laptop batteries are made not-accessible?
« Reply #159 on: December 10, 2021, 08:40:16 pm »
But it is dozens of people vs millions who do not need it.

Dozens of people *THAT I PERSONALLY KNOW/INTERACT WITH*, are you saying that you personally know millions of people who think removing it is an improvement? I don't care if not everyone needs it, if they don't need it they don't have to use it, what harm does it cause by being there? A study was quoted earlier saying fully 2/3 of consumers would prefer to have it, and you are still trying to suggest that a majority not only don't need it, but would prefer to not have it? Millions of people don't need it, even more millions would prefer to have it. I swear, the almighty Apple could remove any feature they wanted and cripple their devices in any way imaginable and a significant number of people would gush about what a great improvement it is. It's bizarre to me the way some people seem to get so personally invested in a company and will endlessly apologize for them and refuse to acknowledge stupid/irritating design decisions.
 
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Offline james_s

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Re: What's the real reason that laptop batteries are made not-accessible?
« Reply #160 on: December 10, 2021, 08:47:46 pm »
I don't know for a fact because I haven't looked, but I would be very surprised if the Apple wireless earbuds used an open protocol that allows competing products to be made...

They're all compatible. I frequently use bluetooth headphones with my iPhone, I have a couple different pairs, one is a basic set and the other has active noise cancelling. I like bluetooth and find it to be very useful, I would not want to go without it. I also like having a headphone jack because sometimes I want to plug in something analog that does not have bluetooth. People are treating this like it's an either-or thing, like we have to ditch analog in order to have bluetooth. That's totally stupid, I already have bluetooth, ditching the headphone jack is not giving me anything at all, it is only taking something away. It doesn't matter if I only used it even once a year, for that alone it is worth having. In reality though I use it much more than that, several times when I've been on the bus or in the office and my bluetooth headphones went dead I pulled the cable out of my pack and connected them to the headphone jack. I'm afraid I will never understand the mentality that having less choice and fewer options is somehow an improvement.
 
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Offline SilverSolder

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Re: What's the real reason that laptop batteries are made not-accessible?
« Reply #161 on: December 10, 2021, 10:27:06 pm »

DIY guy adds headphone jack to an iPhone 7...  LOL!  :D

 

Offline ogden

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Re: What's the real reason that laptop batteries are made not-accessible?
« Reply #162 on: December 11, 2021, 12:36:06 am »
Maybe you can show me how to plug headphones or an external amplifier into a current generation iPhone while it's charging

As current generation iPhones have wireless charging capability, it's easy ;)
 

Offline james_s

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Re: What's the real reason that laptop batteries are made not-accessible?
« Reply #163 on: December 11, 2021, 01:17:07 am »
Only if I lug around a wireless charging pad with me, I don't know anyone that owns one of those, but everyone has a few regular phone chargers around.

I hope my iPhone SE lasts a long time because unless Apple changes their mind and brings back the headphone jack I'm going to keep the phone I have for as long as I possibly can before I'm forced to downgrade to a newer model.
 

Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: What's the real reason that laptop batteries are made not-accessible?
« Reply #164 on: December 11, 2021, 01:55:48 am »
Maybe you can show me how to plug headphones or an external amplifier into a current generation iPhone while it's charging because I can only seem to find one single connector that can be used for one thing or the other.
I don't know about iPhone but for USB-C devices, there are lots of cheap adapters that give you charging, multiple USB ports, HDMI, and Ethernet with just one connection.
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Offline IanB

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Re: What's the real reason that laptop batteries are made not-accessible?
« Reply #165 on: December 11, 2021, 03:42:33 am »
Maybe you can show me how to plug headphones or an external amplifier into a current generation iPhone while it's charging because I can only seem to find one single connector that can be used for one thing or the other.

If you can ask the question, there is probably an answer.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/anker-lightning-to-3-5mm-audio-adapter-and-pass-through-charging-white/6413591.p?skuId=6413591

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/belkin-lightning-to-headphone-jack-charging-adapter-white/6091909.p?skuId=6091909

 
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Offline ogden

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Re: What's the real reason that laptop batteries are made not-accessible?
« Reply #166 on: December 11, 2021, 08:45:35 am »
Whining why my "made for the masses" phone do not have specific feature is nonsense, especially when there are plenty of decent phones with 3.5mm jacks and microSDXC cards around. Honestly prehistoric 3.5mm audio connector is for losers. True audiophiles are using 2.5mm or 4.4mm balanced audio with headphones like Beyerdynamic T1, SENNHEISER HD 820 or alike and play music on proper music players like Astell&Kern A&futura SE200, Shanling M8, Sony WM1Z Walkman and so on :)
 
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Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: What's the real reason that laptop batteries are made not-accessible?
« Reply #167 on: December 11, 2021, 12:02:05 pm »
Whining why my "made for the masses" phone do not have specific feature is nonsense, especially when there are plenty of decent phones with 3.5mm jacks and microSDXC cards around. Honestly prehistoric 3.5mm audio connector is for losers. True audiophiles are using 2.5mm or 4.4mm balanced audio with headphones like Beyerdynamic T1, SENNHEISER HD 820 or alike and play music on proper music players like Astell&Kern A&futura SE200, Shanling M8, Sony WM1Z Walkman and so on :)

I understand your point but these cans are still a simulation of a live room. Don't get me wrong they are a great simulation. I wish I had them when my ears still worked.

But I think the only people pining for the 1/8 audio jack are quite satisfied with the passive sound quality in a pedestrian environment. A portable audio player, yes, will deliver a superb quality. But the phone with it's noisy SOCs and wifi BT and Cell antennas, will never, I think, satisfy a true audio purist.
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Offline SilverSolder

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Re: What's the real reason that laptop batteries are made not-accessible?
« Reply #168 on: December 11, 2021, 01:28:15 pm »
Whining why my "made for the masses" phone do not have specific feature is nonsense, especially when there are plenty of decent phones with 3.5mm jacks and microSDXC cards around. Honestly prehistoric 3.5mm audio connector is for losers. True audiophiles are using 2.5mm or 4.4mm balanced audio with headphones like Beyerdynamic T1, SENNHEISER HD 820 or alike and play music on proper music players like Astell&Kern A&futura SE200, Shanling M8, Sony WM1Z Walkman and so on :)

I understand your point but these cans are still a simulation of a live room. Don't get me wrong they are a great simulation. I wish I had them when my ears still worked.

But I think the only people pining for the 1/8 audio jack are quite satisfied with the passive sound quality in a pedestrian environment. A portable audio player, yes, will deliver a superb quality. But the phone with it's noisy SOCs and wifi BT and Cell antennas, will never, I think, satisfy a true audio purist.

There is always the LG V20, which had a quad DAC audio circuit, 3.5mm headphone jack, replaceable battery, and SD card slot.  Possibly the pinnacle of smartphone development so far!  :D



 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: What's the real reason that laptop batteries are made not-accessible?
« Reply #169 on: December 11, 2021, 01:33:07 pm »

While driving around yesterday, I thought of another situation that seems similar to removing the audio jack:   The demise of the stick shift in cars!

You almost can't get a stick shift in a sports car any longer, most of them are paddle shifters or "manumatics" nowadays.

Someone that prefers a stick shift would probably not appreciate these developments!  :D

 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: What's the real reason that laptop batteries are made not-accessible?
« Reply #170 on: December 11, 2021, 01:46:00 pm »
Whining why my "made for the masses" phone do not have specific feature is nonsense, especially when there are plenty of decent phones with 3.5mm jacks and microSDXC cards around. Honestly prehistoric 3.5mm audio connector is for losers. True audiophiles are using 2.5mm or 4.4mm balanced audio with headphones like Beyerdynamic T1, SENNHEISER HD 820 or alike and play music on proper music players like Astell&Kern A&futura SE200, Shanling M8, Sony WM1Z Walkman and so on :)

Fair enough, but you can get excellent results driving a set of decent headphones via a 3.5mm headphone jack...    And then there's the fact that the girls like wired headphones, so who's the loser now? :D    https://www.teenvogue.com/story/wired-headphones-2021-it-accessory

It is fair to say that the Airpods (and similar) are great, but have introduced some problems of their own that the previous tech didn't have.  I am thinking of:
(1) Added cost,
(2) Have to keep'em charged,
(3) The batteries wear out in ~2 years.

If the benefits outweigh the disadvantages for you, fine.   But you have to accept that not everyone comes to the same conclusion!
 

Online magic

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Re: What's the real reason that laptop batteries are made not-accessible?
« Reply #171 on: December 11, 2021, 01:53:10 pm »
What's a "quack DAC" and who thinks it is more important than what buffer is used to actually drive the headphone load? ;)
 

Offline heutnoch

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Re: What's the real reason that laptop batteries are made not-accessible?
« Reply #172 on: December 11, 2021, 02:04:03 pm »
And then there's the fact that the girls like wired headphones, so who's the loser now? :D

I also use my head phones as an accessory only. So I'm totally fine with not having them connected anywhere. Just stuff the cable in your pocket.  :-DD
 

Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: What's the real reason that laptop batteries are made not-accessible?
« Reply #173 on: December 11, 2021, 03:20:56 pm »
And then there's the fact that the girls like wired headphones, so who's the loser now? :D   
USB is wired, no problems there. I think it's mainly gamer girls who prefer wired since Bluetooth has higher latency.
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Offline ogden

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Re: What's the real reason that laptop batteries are made not-accessible?
« Reply #174 on: December 11, 2021, 03:33:21 pm »
If the benefits outweigh the disadvantages for you, fine. But you have to accept that not everyone comes to the same conclusion!

Sure. That's why we have endless list of different shopping choices. BTW I prefer function to fashion/religion and use what is best for occasion. When sitting @computer - I will be using decent wired over-ear headphones. As soon as I expect myself moving, I do not put studio headphones in my pocket, but rather BT earbuds. Charging is not an issue either - because earbud case can receive charging wirelessly from phone back-to-back.
 
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