What's the real reason that laptop batteries are made not-accessible?

[james_s]

Are you also the kind to complain that the latest RTX 3090 doesn't have a VGA port so you can't plug your Trinitron into it? Really, single ended signals that can go below ground aren't the easiest to design particularly for portable devices and is also not ideal for signal quality.

I suppose a differential analog audio standard for consumer use could be developed, but it would be facing a losing battle compared to digital audio.

I have no idea what a RTX 3090 is so I don't know. I do still have a nice Trinitron TV set up in my rec room though, I mostly use it for the vintage console games.

Oh come on, not the easiest? That's absurd. Analog headphone audio is a problem solved decades ago, it is trivial, even easier now than it was then with single chip class D amplifier solutions that can run off batteries and produce ample power. If I can buy a $10 MP3 player from China that sounds great through analog headphones then there is no reason a $500 smartphone should lack that capability. My current iPhone has a headphone jack that works perfectly fine, I'm just not sure what I'd replace it with if I ever have to upgrade.

[SilverSolder]

Wireless headphones are now passé, all the cool kids want wired headphones now!

https://www.teenvogue.com/story/wired-headphones-2021-it-accessory


https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/internet/gen-z-making-wired-headphones-cool-again


https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2021/11/22/wired-earphones-comeback/


If you're not "Committed to the wire", you are just basically uncool! 

[james_s]

Cheap SD cards are slow, their presence significantly complicates the UI and device management needs to pick what goes on internal vs. external storage, and it is hard to reconcile with "just works" device encryption.

So don't use cheap SD cards, just require cards of a certain class and display a warning if it is too slow. The UI and device management is not rocket science, this is another largely solved problem, just have a selection for photos, videos, music and podcasts, store internally or store on removable storage by default. For retrieval just automatically grab items from both locations. There is IMO no reason to support storing apps and other things on the SD card, it is only needed for media storage. A competent project manager could spec out this functionality in a day.

[SiliconWizard]

Support for SD cards in any modern mobile device takes an absolutely negligible amount of resources compared to all the rest. It's absolutely nearly "zero" cost software-wise, considering how gigantic software on those has become. And support is built in OSs that those phones use anyway. Software-wise, everything is already solved on the OS level. There is absolutely nothing to do, except actually explicitely configure the OS (say, Android) without SD card support if you absolutely want to trim that. Which is an extra effort.

Now sure, you have the annoyance of having to add an SD card connector. It doesn't even have to be accessible "externally", since most phones have used trays for SD cards for years, most often combined with the SIM card.

[NiHaoMike]

Oh come on, not the easiest? That's absurd. Analog headphone audio is a problem solved decades ago, it is trivial, even easier now than it was then with single chip class D amplifier solutions that can run off batteries and produce ample power. If I can buy a $10 MP3 player from China that sounds great through analog headphones then there is no reason a $500 smartphone should lack that capability. My current iPhone has a headphone jack that works perfectly fine, I'm just not sure what I'd replace it with if I ever have to upgrade.

The problem comes down to either you'll have to have fairly large coupling caps to allow the use of a single voltage rail or you'll have to add a negative rail to a device that otherwise would not need one. Then there's the issue that while it works well for headphones since they don't have any other connection to ground, using it to connect an amplifier is just asking for ground loops. Making a new consumer standard for differential analog audio with allowance for up to a few volts of common mode offset solves both those problems, but such a standard has few advantages compared to USB audio. Most higher end consumer amplifiers nowadays are digital so a digital interconnect makes a lot of sense.

Wireless headphones are now passé, all the cool kids want wired headphones now!

https://www.teenvogue.com/story/wired-headphones-2021-it-accessory


https://www.insidehook.com/daily_brief/internet/gen-z-making-wired-headphones-cool-again


https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2021/11/22/wired-earphones-comeback/


If you're not "Committed to the wire", you are just basically uncool! 

If studio style headphones become "cool" instead of IEMs, that would give plenty of room for additional batteries. With USB-C, those batteries can supply extra power to the phone or other portable device. It could then be possible to make it dual mode wired or wireless and even have seamless switching between those modes.

[David Hess]

I far prefer to have devices that use AA or AAA rechargeable batteries, so I can simply swap or replace the battery when needed.

I prefer AA and AAA cells also but have recently expanded my acceptable battery list to CR123A and rechargeable 18650s which are twice the length of CR123As.  Many 18650 devices can use a pair of CR123As instead if necessary.

[james_s]

The problem comes down to either you'll have to have fairly large coupling caps to allow the use of a single voltage rail or you'll have to add a negative rail to a device that otherwise would not need one. Then there's the issue that while it works well for headphones since they don't have any other connection to ground, using it to connect an amplifier is just asking for ground loops. Making a new consumer standard for differential analog audio with allowance for up to a few volts of common mode offset solves both those problems, but such a standard has few advantages compared to USB audio. Most higher end consumer amplifiers nowadays are digital so a digital interconnect makes a lot of sense.

There is no problem, you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. The PAM8403 for example puts out several watts running from a single supply and requires only a few tiny chip capacitors and there are numerous other options. I don't know what amp is inside my iPhone SE but it works perfectly both to drive headphones and feeding an amplifier and it works perfectly in countless other phones, music players and other devices made over the years. This "problem" has been solved years ago, we don't need to reinvent the wheel.

I'm not against differential audio, but it isn't needed on a phone. I just want a standard headphone jack, like the one I already have on my phone, which is like the one I had on my last phone, and on my iPod, and on the dozens of other gadgets I've owned that had one. It's not like this is some hypothetical new invention, it's literally something I already have, have had for years, and would like to keep having.

[tooki]

Yeah. Batteries are held in place with this double sided stuff. Heck, most of the time, there's even a strip underneath that's supposed to make it easy to remove the double-sided tape and thus the battery. In practice, after a few months of use, with regular heating from the battery, the double-sided tape becomes almost impossible to remove this easily. So the strip is great for servicing batteries after just a short time of use - probably for phones still under warranty - but after 2 years or so, that becomes a lost cause and removing the battery almost always imply fighting with the adhesive and eventually butchering the battery, hoping you don't damage it enough for it to leak or something. Yes, done this a few times...

I recently replaced the battery on my old iPhone 6S (from 2015) and the adhesive strip pulled off just as it was supposed to. If I’m not mistaken, I had had the battery replaced 2 or 3 years prior, so at the very youngest it was a 2 year old battery, but probably longer.

[Miyuki]

There is no problem, you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. The PAM8403 for example puts out several watts running from a single supply and requires only a few tiny chip capacitors and there are numerous other options. I don't know what amp is inside my iPhone SE but it works perfectly both to drive headphones and feeding an amplifier and it works perfectly in countless other phones, music players and other devices made over the years. This "problem" has been solved years ago, we don't need to reinvent the wheel.

I'm not against differential audio, but it isn't needed on a phone. I just want a standard headphone jack, like the one I already have on my phone, which is like the one I had on my last phone, and on my iPod, and on the dozens of other gadgets I've owned that had one. It's not like this is some hypothetical new invention, it's literally something I already have, have had for years, and would like to keep having.

And most phones have already that analog audio signal routed to the connector (either USB C or Lightning). It is just a matter of the shape of the plug on the headphones.
It is not a bigger problem than 6.3 mm jack vs 3.5 mm one and small 2.5 mm
When I really want to use big headphones with bulky cable is that connector reduction that big problem? 

[NiHaoMike]

There is no problem, you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. The PAM8403 for example puts out several watts running from a single supply and requires only a few tiny chip capacitors and there are numerous other options. I don't know what amp is inside my iPhone SE but it works perfectly both to drive headphones and feeding an amplifier and it works perfectly in countless other phones, music players and other devices made over the years. This "problem" has been solved years ago, we don't need to reinvent the wheel.

PAM8403 is differential output and will not work for driving headphones. There's no way around coupling capacitors or a negative supply rail with that antiquated design.

I recall that back when the iPod was popular, the output capacitors were too small causing substantial waveform distortion at lower frequencies. Hence the emergence of portable headphone amplifiers, something that really shouldn't be needed for a device specifically designed for portable audio.

When I really want to use big headphones with bulky cable is that connector reduction that big problem? 

As mentioned, USB-C gives extra capabilities like using the headphones to hold extra battery capacity for a portable device that's made thinner than it needs to be.

[tooki]

And most phones have already that analog audio signal routed to the connector (either USB C or Lightning). It is just a matter of the shape of the plug on the headphones.

FWIW, I know that some Android phones do that, but on Apple devices the ports are purely digital, and the headphone adapters contain full DACs and ADCs. (Lightning doesn’t even have the option of analog audio out. It’s a strictly all-digital interface. Video output on Lightning is actually implemented as an h.264 stream, decoded in the HDMI “adapter” which actually contains an entire ARM SoC running a super-lightweight version of iOS just to decode the h.264 stream and run the HDMI port!)

[tooki]

There is no problem, you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. The PAM8403 for example puts out several watts running from a single supply and requires only a few tiny chip capacitors and there are numerous other options. I don't know what amp is inside my iPhone SE but it works perfectly both to drive headphones and feeding an amplifier and it works perfectly in countless other phones, music players and other devices made over the years. This "problem" has been solved years ago, we don't need to reinvent the wheel.

PAM8403 is differential output and will not work for driving headphones. There's no way around coupling capacitors or a negative supply rail with that antiquated design.

I recall that back when the iPod was popular, the output capacitors were too small causing substantial waveform distortion at lower frequencies. Hence the emergence of portable headphone amplifiers, something that really shouldn't be needed for a device specifically designed for portable audio.

I’m skeptical of such claims. Perhaps with 600 ohm cans that needed tons of voltage, but test after test showed the iPod and iPhone DACs to be exceptionally good. Even the microscopic ones in the Lightning headphone adapters test really, really well.

As for the PAM8403: you have to use a big resistor network to drive headphones with it, as shown here: https://www.edn.com/add-headphones-to-a-class-d-amplifier/

(It does work, I’ve done it in a pinch, though I’d just use a real headphone amp IC if given the choice.) But I have no idea what you mean about needing a negative supply rail: it doesn’t even support dual-rail operation, never mind require a negative rail! And caps are definitely not required, though they are recommended.

[SilverSolder]

[...]
The problem comes down to either you'll have to have fairly large coupling caps to allow the use of a single voltage rail or you'll have to add a negative rail to a device that otherwise would not need one. [...]

Most modern designs would probably use a bridged pair of amps, to avoid this problem entirely.  Silicon is cheap...  Notice how smartphones have 2 or 3 cameras on the back, it is cheaper and more compact to put multiple sensors in there than it is to make the lenses move for different focal lengths!

[edit] hmmm thinking about it, the common ground shared between Right and Left may be an issue with bridged amps.  -  Still, the problem seems to have been solved for decades!

[james_s]

I was not suggesting using the PAM8403 for driving headphones, I was using it as an example of a small, simple and relatively powerful audio amplifier that runs on a single supply and doesn't require large capacitors. I'm quite sure there are numerous parts on the market more suitable for driving headphones, I'm just not familiar with anything specific.

The big problem with headphone audio through USB-C is there is only one port, you cannot plug in headphones (or an external amp) while the phone is charging. It's all kind of silly anyway, I already have exactly what I want, a standard headphone jack on my phone, so just keep making phones that have that, problem solved. There is no good reason to get rid of it.

[ogden]

The big problem with headphone audio through USB-C is there is only one port, you cannot plug in headphones (or an external amp) while the phone is charging. It's all kind of silly anyway, I already have exactly what I want, a standard headphone jack on my phone, so just keep making phones that have that, problem solved. There is no good reason to get rid of it.

Phones with audio jacks are still manufactured. Just get one. Stating things like "I like mechanical buttons" so every phone on the market shall have such, sounds laughable to say it politely.

[tooki]

I was not suggesting using the PAM8403 for driving headphones, I was using it as an example of a small, simple and relatively powerful audio amplifier that runs on a single supply and doesn't require large capacitors. I'm quite sure there are numerous parts on the market more suitable for driving headphones, I'm just not familiar with anything specific.

The big problem with headphone audio through USB-C is there is only one port, you cannot plug in headphones (or an external amp) while the phone is charging. It's all kind of silly anyway, I already have exactly what I want, a standard headphone jack on my phone, so just keep making phones that have that, problem solved. There is no good reason to get rid of it.

There is no shortage of USB-C to headphone jack adapters that also have a pass-through USB-C port. I just bought one last week for my new iPad. Even though it’s only advertised for pass-through charging, it actually works for data, too!

[SilverSolder]

I was not suggesting using the PAM8403 for driving headphones, I was using it as an example of a small, simple and relatively powerful audio amplifier that runs on a single supply and doesn't require large capacitors. I'm quite sure there are numerous parts on the market more suitable for driving headphones, I'm just not familiar with anything specific.

The big problem with headphone audio through USB-C is there is only one port, you cannot plug in headphones (or an external amp) while the phone is charging. It's all kind of silly anyway, I already have exactly what I want, a standard headphone jack on my phone, so just keep making phones that have that, problem solved. There is no good reason to get rid of it.

There is no shortage of USB-C to headphone jack adapters that also have a pass-through USB-C port. I just bought one last week for my new iPad. Even though it’s only advertised for pass-through charging, it actually works for data, too!

Why force the customers to use adapters and dongles?

The EU was right to force Big (Ripoff) Tech to standardise on one single charging port a while back...   

I hope the EU eventually investigates the "coincidence" that all the manufacturers drop replaceable batteries, ports, and SD cards from flagship models all at the same time.

I don't think Big Tech are the good guys any longer...  now, they are more like America's railroad robber barons back in the day!

[PlainName]

I think the disappearance of SD cards is surely due to pervasive availability of wireless networking and cloud storage?

Maybe because the phones just come with more flash now. A few years ago I regularly trimmed what was stored on the phone, and with my latest (which isn't even a current model) I just don't bother thinking about it. Actually, I lie - my real latest, which I don't use because I prefer the previous one, has just run out of flash, but that's because it's running two completely separate instances of Android so is really two phones sharing one memory.

The other thing could be cost and space - leaving out the flash card means they don't need the carrier nor the electronics to access it.

[NiHaoMike]

test after test showed the iPod and iPhone DACs to be exceptionally good. Even the microscopic ones in the Lightning headphone adapters test really, really well.

The DAC is good, the weak link has been the output capacitors that are sized too small causing the waveform to distort with headphones connected. (There was an article about that issue showing the waveforms that look good with nothing connected but become really distorted with headphones connected.) Hence why the external headphone amplifiers are able to work around it, by presenting a high impedance that masks the issue. I recall that Apple switched to a direct coupled design starting with the iPod Shuffle as the proper fix.

There is no shortage of USB-C to headphone jack adapters that also have a pass-through USB-C port. I just bought one last week for my new iPad. Even though it’s only advertised for pass-through charging, it actually works for data, too!

Not only that, there are lots of cheap USB-C adapters that break out more USB ports, pass through charging, HDMI, and Ethernet.

[cortex_m0]

Why force the customers to use adapters and dongles?

Headphones with a cable have some technical advantages (most notably audio quality, no need to re-charge), but technical advantage does not imply a winning product. The consumer has embraced wireless headphones and rejected the dongle.
The products in the marketplace will change as consumer preferences become more clear, and it doesn't look like a lot of consumers agree with you and me on the superiority of headphone jacks.

I hope the EU eventually investigates the "coincidence" that all the manufacturers drop replaceable batteries, ports, and SD cards from flagship models all at the same time.

At the time the iPhone eliminated the headphone jack, more than two-thirds of respondents to a web survey said they thought Apple removing the headphone jack was a mistake. I think it is clear now that their move was not a loser in the market place.

So it's not a coincidence. The 3.5mm jack-free iPhone has been a success, since it was launched 6 years ago so everyone else followed. The iPhone has never had a user-serviceable battery or an SD card.

[ogden]

I hope the EU eventually investigates the "coincidence" that all the manufacturers drop replaceable batteries, ports, and SD cards from flagship models all at the same time.

Right. Add to your list disappeared features and peripherals all over the place. Why there is no built-in CD-RW drives anymore in the laptops, casette players in the cars? Big tech is robbing consumers!

[james_s]

Phones with audio jacks are still manufactured. Just get one. Stating things like "I like mechanical buttons" so every phone on the market shall have such, sounds laughable to say it politely.

I have one, but what iPhone can I get to replace it if I ever need to do that? The only alternative is Android and it doesn't support iMessage so it doesn't meet my needs.

I don't expect every phone to have mechanical buttons, but I won't buy one that doesn't have a physical home button unless there is absolutely no other option, and in that case I'll keep my existing phone for as long as possible.

I don't expect EVERY phone to have anything, but it would certainly be nice if virtually EVERY phone didn't copy the same stupid design decisions Apple makes.

[james_s]

At the time the iPhone eliminated the headphone jack, more than two-thirds of respondents to a web survey said they thought Apple removing the headphone jack was a mistake. I think it is clear now that their move was not a loser in the market place.

So it's not a coincidence. The 3.5mm jack-free iPhone has been a success, since it was launched 6 years ago so everyone else followed. The iPhone has never had a user-serviceable battery or an SD card.

That's a false comparison, how can you say it was a success when they removed it from all of their flagship models and people still kept buying the phones? If you're invested in the iOS ecosystem you can buy any phone you want, as long as it's an iPhone. The fact that a feature is removed and people keep on buying them doesn't mean it was a good decision or that the phone would be any less successful without the headphone jack, it just means there is so little competition and most of the competition copies whatever Apple does anyway that the only real option is to bend over and take it. Seriously, how can it be argued that removing a feature that is useful to a significant number of people an improvement? If you don't need it you don't have to use it, but if it isn't there you can't use it whether you want to or not. The battery is user serviceable, I've replaced several iPhone batteries, it was easy. The lack of SD card support is something that has always annoyed me, but what choice do I have? I could get an Android phone and that would bring a different set of problems.

There is no really good mobile phone platform on the market, it is not a matter of choosing the one I like best, I had to choose the one I hate least, and I have every right to complain about it, and I find corporate apologists and fanbois with their smug and dismissive attitudes to be some of the most irritating people on the planet.

[tooki]

One feature, one I consider genuinely useful, that digitally connected headphones (be it Bluetooth, Lightning, or USB-C), in a tightly controlled ecosystem like apple’s, is headphone volume safety. When using digitally-connected Apple-made headphones, iOS can carefully monitor the actual headphone output, optionally limiting to an actual volume output, and not just a “dumb” maximum setting that’s unaware of the sensitive of the headphones in use. With compatible headphones, you can view real-time output (see attached screenshot from my iPhone). You can optionally configure it to limit to a particular dB level, and again it’s based on actual content volume. So if you need to turn the volume way up for a quiet recording, you still can, and if you forget to turn it back down for a “hot” recording, it will protect your ears.

(Way better than the old EU volume limit, which has no way of knowing what headphones were in use, and so by law the limit was based on the included headphones, often leaving you with insufficient volume with headphones.)

What I don’t know is whether Apple has a mechanism to allow third-party Made for iPhone headphones with digital connections to work with this system. If they don’t, I hope they enable it eventually.

[Miyuki]

FWIW, I know that some Android phones do that, but on Apple devices the ports are purely digital, and the headphone adapters contain full DACs and ADCs. (Lightning doesn’t even have the option of analog audio out. It’s a strictly all-digital interface. Video output on Lightning is actually implemented as an h.264 stream, decoded in the HDMI “adapter” which actually contains an entire ARM SoC running a super-lightweight version of iOS just to decode the h.264 stream and run the HDMI port!)

I was not aware of that. Yet they are still available almost for no cost, so why not.
I use USB headphones even for a computer. They can regulate volume and mute/pause. Have mic. They have only benefits for me as I do not have any analog audio setup and if I will have one, it will have dedicated headphones anyway.
And USB one I can connect to hub conveniently placed on the table.