When car keys are no longer keys

[GreyWoolfe]

Most of the vehicles I have owned over the years have had 'normal' keys.  The 2 current vehicles we have don't.  The 1 with the bright red panic button is for the 2013 Ram Tradesman cargo van and the rectangular box is for the 2012 Hyundai Sonata.  Does anyone else have a strange looking device for their vehicle?

[Nusa]

Note that your van key has a traditional key hidden inside of it (little slide lever near the keyring). That's so you can still open the drivers door in case your electrical system is not working. Better than smashing a window!

[Brumby]

All my cars have had keys ... but I do have a funny story about keyless systems.

Some time ago, I spent a little time doing some work in a mechanic's workshop - and one day I was helping check the lights on a BMW for a rego inspection.  The apprentice was given the task of reversing it off the hoist and couldn't start it.  The older gentleman in the workshop came over and asked him what the problem was, so the apprentice told him that he had tried pushing the Start/Stop button - and nothing happened.  The older gentleman then said something like "What's the matter with you?" and then reached in, pressed the button and the engine started straight away.  He pressed it again and said "See, It's simple.  Try again."  He pressed the button to stop the engine as he stood back up.  The apprentice tried again ... but with no success.

I then noticed the bulge in the older gentleman's shirt pocket ... and I completely cracked up - but I did it very quietly.  In his pocket was the key - and when he reached in through the window, the key was in close enough proximity that the ignition system detected it - but when he stood up, it was too far away.  The older gentleman looked at me with a smile as he knew I'd worked out what he was doing - and I let him finish his bit of fun.

Apprentices are useful for a lot of things.... 

[GreyWoolfe]

Note that your van key has a traditional key hidden inside of it (little slide lever near the keyring). That's so you can still open the drivers door in case your electrical system is not working. Better than smashing a window!

I know it's there.  The Sonata fob has it also.  That car has the push button start like the BMW that Brumby mentioned.  There is a port in the center console, if the battery in the fob dies, you can plug it into the port, the car knows you have it and will start with the push button.  Life was so much simpler when we stuck a key in a lock or ignition switch.

[Halcyon]

I love the idea of a "key-less" key. My keys remain in my pocket, as long as I have them on my person, I can unlock the doors/boot and start the car without touching the key.

Did I remember to lock the car? I can "interrogate" the car from up to 100 metres away and the key fob will tell me the current state of the door locks (see attached) and/or if the alarm has been triggered.

The only actual keys I carry along with my car key is a USB flash memory key, my letter box key and the key to the front door of my house (all conveniently stowed away in my Orbitkey (also pictured).

[Rerouter]

the real fun happens when you mount a HID card sticker somewhere within 10cm of the key barrel, most short range RFID keys use 125Khz, so having another card broadcasting over the top of it locks out the car. I've inadvertently discovered this on a number of european cars and trucks because i have a HID tag on my key ring.

[AndyC_772]

I love the idea of a "key-less" key. My keys remain in my pocket, as long as I have them on my person, I can unlock the doors/boot and start the car without touching the key.

They're very convenient, but also susceptible to 'range extender' attacks, where off-the-shelf radio equipment is used by thieves to boost the signal to and from these keys. The car can be started and driven away even when the key is still inside the house.

Keep them in a metal tin when not in use.

[wraper]

Life was so much simpler when we stuck a key in a lock or ignition switch.

So think the car thieves.

They became pretty advanced guys nowadays. Usually first comes "engineer" who hacks the car via CAN bus, then person who actually steals it. Some can be hacked wirelessly.

[tszaboo]

My parent's Renault in 2004 was keyless. It takes more time for these advances to reach the USA, but I dont get why is it surprising. And when they do, you can start a dodge viper and drive away, while the driver is having his breakfast 20m away. And show it on BBC.

the real fun happens when you mount a HID card sticker somewhere within 10cm of the key barrel, most short range RFID keys use 125Khz, so having another card broadcasting over the top of it locks out the car. I've inadvertently discovered this on a number of european cars and trucks because i have a HID tag on my key ring.

Most of these are 433 MHz, not RFID.

[MrW0lf]

Keys rock, especially in right place:

Can be quickly removed if non-competent person sneaks to drivers seat

Now only keyless car I had is some Subaru and it was a killer in direct sense. Engine had zero torque low down and you either polished clutch or risked stall. No practice helped sometimes it still stalled in most nasty places for example on x-roads. Now with normal car youre running again in second, probably w/o even stopping because just turn the key. But in this heap of crap had to push a button. If nervous and push it slightly wrong it would go into mode cycling instead of re-start. Good luck if truck coming right @ ya...

[Halcyon]

They're very convenient, but also susceptible to 'range extender' attacks, where off-the-shelf radio equipment is used by thieves to boost the signal to and from these keys. The car can be started and driven away even when the key is still inside the house.

True, however they won't get far (in most cars). Without the key being present and the car being able to poll it at regular intervals, the thief will be stranded on the side of the road pretty quickly.

A far easier solution is to break into their home and steal the keys (which is far more common).

[G7PSK]

Car thieves now look for keyless cars, they spoof the door lock and once inside reprogram the car via can bus to accept a new key and drive away. Major problem in London and other large cities here in UK. Mr Beans answer is probably best lock the steering wheel in the boot with a padlock.

[Halcyon]

Car thieves now look for keyless cars, they spoof the door lock and once inside reprogram the car via can bus to accept a new key and drive away. Major problem in London and other large cities here in UK. Mr Beans answer is probably best lock the steering wheel in the boot with a padlock.

Are thieves really that smart (or resourceful) though? I'd love to see the stats. It sounds "easy" in theory, but in reality, what is the prevalence?

In Australia there have been a few theoretical/suspected cases where this has happened, but involves far more effort and greater chances of being caught. The old "steal the keys, take the car" method is far more successful, since most people keep their keys at the front door, on the kitchen bench or in a top drawer somewhere.

Your higher end cars like BMW, Audi, Volvo, Mercedes etc... are quite hard to steal. You can't just plug in a laptop and off you go (Volvo doesn't even allow a Volvo dealer to apply the Polestar tuning to their cars, it's done remotely from Sweden). Subaru, Kia, Hyundai etc... might be a different story, I don't know?

[stmdude]

My parent's Renault in 2004 was keyless.

Oh, I house a particular kind of hatred for that exact key. It has a "giant" coil in then (2-3cm or so), which _is not_ fastened in any other way than its soldering on two SMD pads.

Take a wild guess what happens with those keys when they get a little older and have been dropped a few times?  You guessed it..

Replacement-key and reprogramming from Renault?   That'll be $400-$500, easy.

Thank god I opened it up and was able to repair it..  But, really, that's a rookie mistake by whomever designed that thing.

[AndyC_772]

Your higher end cars like BMW, Audi, Volvo, Mercedes etc... are quite hard to steal. You can't just plug in a laptop and off you go

You're right. You don't even need to plug anything in.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/04/29/thieves-could-steal-your-car-by-holding-a-bag-up-to-your-front-door-6605444/

[Halcyon]

Oh, I house a particular kind of hatred for that exact key.

Not just that but even the current Renault keys are frikkin huge! Almost the size of credit cards. I get that they are "slim" but it feels like you've got this giant, rigid* bulk in your pocket. Awful design overall.

*When I say rigid, not in a good way, it still feels "flimsy" and cheap, like it'll break at the first drop in the right place.

Your higher end cars like BMW, Audi, Volvo, Mercedes etc... are quite hard to steal. You can't just plug in a laptop and off you go

You're right. You don't even need to plug anything in.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/04/29/thieves-could-steal-your-car-by-holding-a-bag-up-to-your-front-door-6605444/

To be fair, that's what you get for buying a BMW ;-)

Seriously though, I doubt the car thieves got very far. If BMW had half a brain, the car would have been disabled after a certain timeout when the key was no longer "in range". The article doesn't mention whether their car was recovered or not.

[dr.diesel]

My Mom accidently locked her keyless 2016 Toyota Highlander with the keyfob inside, which Toyota argued for quite some time was impossible.  Being the weekend it was a fiasco getting it open, don't recall the process but it took her all day to get back in.

[Halcyon]

My Mom accidently locked her keyless 2016 Toyota Highlander with the keyfob inside, which Toyota argued for quite some time was impossible.  Being the weekend it was a fiasco getting it open, don't recall the process but it took her all day to get back in.

Same thing happened to my Hilux (stupid auto-locking feature). Called Toyota, they unlocked it remotely. I had to prove I was the owner of the vehicle by answering some ID questions they had on-file, like where the car was purchased, when etc...

[sleemanj]

I hate keyless, one of the first things I do when i buy a car is go down to the local cutters and get 3 keys cut, one spare to keep at home, one spare to keep on the keyring, and one spare to hide somewhere on the vehicle I can get to if need be.  You can never have too many spares, but with keyless even one extra spare will cost your first born with many, especially the more modern ones.

[madires]

Car thieves now look for keyless cars, they spoof the door lock and once inside reprogram the car via can bus to accept a new key and drive away. Major problem in London and other large cities here in UK. Mr Beans answer is probably best lock the steering wheel in the boot with a padlock.

Are thieves really that smart (or resourceful) though? I'd love to see the stats. It sounds "easy" in theory, but in reality, what is the prevalence?

That method is also quite common over here. Keyless Entry is a convenience function for thieves

In Australia there have been a few theoretical/suspected cases where this has happened, but involves far more effort and greater chances of being caught. The old "steal the keys, take the car" method is far more successful, since most people keep their keys at the front door, on the kitchen bench or in a top drawer somewhere.

Your higher end cars like BMW, Audi, Volvo, Mercedes etc... are quite hard to steal. You can't just plug in a laptop and off you go (Volvo doesn't even allow a Volvo dealer to apply the Polestar tuning to their cars, it's done remotely from Sweden). Subaru, Kia, Hyundai etc... might be a different story, I don't know?

Actually the opposite, range extenders for keyless entry are used primarily to steal the expensive cars. Obviously thieves have solutions for the remaining hurdles after entering the car.

[MrW0lf]

Here we had quite a large number of luxury car theft via range extender method. There was discussion in media and police suggested to place key at least 5m from nearest wall when at home. Yea... but no... basically its idiotic suggestion when you can place it in metal can instead. Better yet you can have special pocket (or bag) that is properly screened. But police carefully avoided suggesting this and news article moderators carefully deleted all such suggestions. Better let cars be stolen than make public aware how useless wireless security is... (shielded pocket/bag is common theft method in shops). Soon after some more cars were stolen But guess some shampoo bottles were saved so all moderation efforts were worth it

BTW quite appalling was that many common folk did not believe that screening would even work at all and argued quite hard. At the time I still had this s****y keyless no-torque Subaru and tested - of course it worked perfectly... Couple layers of tin foil (OMG!) and key was silent for good.
Currently driving car w normal key and no electronic aids but ABS - utter joy - RPM rarely drops below 5k

[Old Don]

More than once I've set off the car's alarm while working on something. I've pressed the key fob button against the workbench, against loose change in the pocket or just about any other bozo manner of having the car go crazy. Even worse when you've got your head under the hood checking fluids!   

[Rick Law]

Car thieves now look for keyless cars, they spoof the door lock and once inside reprogram the car via can bus to accept a new key and drive away. Major problem in London and other large cities here in UK. Mr Beans answer is probably best lock the steering wheel in the boot with a padlock.

Are thieves really that smart (or resourceful) though? I'd love to see the stats. It sounds "easy" in theory, but in reality, what is the prevalence?
...
Your higher end cars like BMW, Audi, Volvo, Mercedes etc... are quite hard to steal. You can't just plug in a laptop and off you go (Volvo doesn't even allow a Volvo dealer to apply the Polestar tuning to their cars, it's done remotely from Sweden). Subaru, Kia, Hyundai etc... might be a different story, I don't know?

These key-less stuff is creating a golden time for car thieves in my view.  In the old days, they had to break a window and/or somehow short circuit the ignition and break the steering key-lock.  With these key-less stuff, the thief can drive a car away in its pristine condition without adding a scratch.

Thieves don't need to be particularly smart.  They don't need a laptop nor need computer savvy.  They can get a variety of ready-to-go tools to that end.  They do need to be literate so they can do some web searching and perhaps do some web purchases.  These tools are so ubiquitous that you can readily find youtube video code-grabbing demonstrations and "how to's".

Some even record the code remotely when the car was started by the owner - so it can be used by the thief later.   I recall reading a news article that one street had all their BMW stolen in one night - one would assume the thief/thieves have been recording all the codes and strike all at once.

New $11 tool (but you need a pair and a two person team) in news report recently (April 2017)
Artitle: "JUST A PAIR OF THESE $11 RADIO GADGETS CAN STEAL A CAR"
_{https://www.wired.com/2017/04/just-pair-11-radio-gadgets-can-steal-car/}

Article: "Code Grabbers and Remote Keyless Entry: Warning about thieves using 'code grabbers' to record remote keyless entry signals."
_{url=http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/lockcode.asp]http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/lockcode.asp[/url]}

[amyk]

Car thieves now look for keyless cars, they spoof the door lock and once inside reprogram the car via can bus to accept a new key and drive away. Major problem in London and other large cities here in UK. Mr Beans answer is probably best lock the steering wheel in the boot with a padlock.

Or a big steering wheel locking bar.

[Rick Law]

Car thieves now look for keyless cars, they spoof the door lock and once inside reprogram the car via can bus to accept a new key and drive away. Major problem in London and other large cities here in UK. Mr Beans answer is probably best lock the steering wheel in the boot with a padlock.

Or a big steering wheel locking bar.

I did some late research some years ago (late because it was after my car was stolen).

A recommendation regarding steering bar-lock is: don't get the popular type - get an off-brand!  Popular types have the "how to break" well known, and tools available to break them.  Off-brands give them a little more trouble.  They can saw the steering wheel, but that takes time and reduces the value of the car.

Better yet are those that locks either the regular brake or emergency-brake.  The one highly recommended by some is one that when extended force the foot-brake into the down position so the car is not movable.