Author Topic: When driving and mobile/car phones were legal  (Read 3872 times)

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Offline HalcyonTopic starter

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When driving and mobile/car phones were legal
« on: October 31, 2020, 04:05:16 am »
This is more of a brain dump than anything. But today I was reminiscing about the "car phone". As I was growing up, parents of a few friends had them. I had fond memories of the initialisation tone that was heard when the car ignition was turned on (I think it was an NEC phone hard wired to the car with the handset beside the driver's seat).

Use of mobile phones by the driver while driving were introduced in Australia in 2012, which wasn't that long ago. Now, you can be caught and fined using a phone not only by police, but by automated "mobile phone detection" cameras fitted to overhead bridges, signs etc...

Don't get me wrong, I agree with these laws and methods as some people find it hard enough to drive without using a phone.


 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: When driving and mobile/car phones were legal
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2020, 04:43:39 am »
I doubt they were legal back then. Certainly weren't here, the specific law is just to drum it into the heads of those too stupid to operate either safely.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: When driving and mobile/car phones were legal
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2020, 06:06:19 am »
They were legal in the USA until relatively recently, maybe 10 years ago? Back in the early days of mobile phones they were so expensive that very few people had them and it wasn't enough of a problem for anyone to make it illegal. Also in the analog days a mobile phone was just a phone, there were no games or social media or other crap. Once it got so that everyone had one and the capabilities of the devices grew the number of accidents caused by distracted driving rose dramatically. Personally I think it should be a criminal offense if you cause any sort of accident while driving distracted, I see it so often and have nearly been run down multiple times.
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: When driving and mobile/car phones were legal
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2020, 06:25:23 am »
Personally I think it should be a criminal offense if you cause any sort of accident while driving distracted

Quote
If a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road or other public place without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road or place, he is guilty of an offence.

Dates back to 1930 at least. The US really takes a while to catch up.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: When driving and mobile/car phones were legal
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2020, 06:42:52 am »
Personally, I am all in favour of the laws.  This, perhaps, is the most compelling reason:
... as some people find it hard enough to drive without using a phone.

The thing I suspect, though, as being the most significant factor in the risk profile is SMS.  You have to take your eyes off the road to read them - and, heaven forbid, type!
 

Offline james_s

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Re: When driving and mobile/car phones were legal
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2020, 07:15:02 am »
Personally I think it should be a criminal offense if you cause any sort of accident while driving distracted

Quote
If a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road or other public place without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road or place, he is guilty of an offence.

Dates back to 1930 at least. The US really takes a while to catch up.

I don't know if you go out of your way to be a dick or are just so socially inept that you can't help it but it is rare that I see a comment from you that does not come off as snide, looking down your nose at those inferior foreigners.

Is that law used to charge people with a crime? Or is it just something you get a ticket for? "An offense" is not necessarily a criminal offense. Going 5 mph over the speed limit is an offense, but it's not something that will get you arrested and charged with a crime.
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: When driving and mobile/car phones were legal
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2020, 07:25:36 am »
I don't know if you go out of your way to be a dick or are just so socially inept that you can't help it but it is rare that I see a comment from you that does not come off as snide, looking down your nose at those inferior foreigners.

And how often do you think I see the proud Americans in the land of the free and most powerful country in the world lording it over everyone? Perhaps I am socially inept, but I actually wasn't trying to cause offence (but people are really happy to take it!). Mostly just elaborating on my earlier post and a bit surprised there's nothing similar (apparently) in the US..

Quote
Is that law used to charge people with a crime? Or is it just something you get a ticket for? "An offense" is not necessarily a criminal offense. Going 5 mph over the speed limit is an offense, but it's not something that will get you arrested and charged with a crime.

It can be treated as a criminal offence, yes. Depends on the situation, any history, if an actual accident occurs it's more likely.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2020, 07:36:30 am by Monkeh »
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: When driving and mobile/car phones were legal
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2020, 07:31:28 am »
Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't take personal offence to a comment that is really only relevant to political and bureaucratic inertia.
 

Online tautech

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Re: When driving and mobile/car phones were legal
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2020, 07:47:14 am »
Using one hands free in holder is perfectly legal here in NZ.
Siri makes it even easier....if you care to adopt the technology.
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Offline John B

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Re: When driving and mobile/car phones were legal
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2020, 09:08:56 am »
About the only thing defensible about the mobile detection cameras is that they are generally mounted in busy areas or intersections where you probably shouldn't be using your phone as you travel through them. When they are on open main roads, they're usually quite obvious.

Police behaviour is less defensible as they will typically use motorcycle police to trawl up and down stopped lines of cars at traffic lights looking for someone who is checking their phone.
 

Offline chris_leyson

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Re: When driving and mobile/car phones were legal
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2020, 10:40:17 am »
In the UK The Road Vehicle (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 was updated in 2003 with regulation 110 "Mobile Telephones". Between 1986 and 2003 the law was a bit sketchy. Old copies of the ARRL or RSGB handbooks might shed a bit of light on the subject from a historical perspective.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2020, 10:50:10 am by chris_leyson »
 

Offline Someone

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Re: When driving and mobile/car phones were legal
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2020, 10:50:48 am »
Use of mobile phones by the driver while driving were introduced in Australia in 2012, which wasn't that long ago.
They were in place by 1999 in several jurisdictions, NSW, ACT, VIC, and SA, at least. Care of a nationalisation of the road rules.

Given the narrow period of use of car phones in Australia, we can guess your age pretty well.
 

Offline pardo-bsso

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Re: When driving and mobile/car phones were legal
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2020, 01:37:07 pm »
The thing I suspect, though, as being the most significant factor in the risk profile is SMS.  You have to take your eyes off the road to read them - and, heaven forbid, type!

Typing is easier when your phone has physical buttons, albeit a bit hard on the thumb sometimes
 

Offline Siwastaja

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Re: When driving and mobile/car phones were legal
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2020, 01:58:55 pm »
Here, the law forbidding mobile phone use except handfree is from as early as 2002, but we have absolutely zero enforcement for the law. With some of the slowest speed limits on the planet, speeding laws are strictly enforced (for simple revenue purposes; the official police stance is that you should be speeding a bit to generate budget for them; which makes complete sense, if you speed enough to generate 200 EUR ticket/camera, you are following the standard European limits!), everything else goes, including texting and talking to the phone.

Very good it's forbidden, but I'm even more concerned about people driving brain completely shut down. Just today, someone ran red lights: I pressed the horn down some 10 seconds straight, while looking directly at their face (a 50yo male). No reaction whatsoever; no head movement, no facial change. They were just driving in an autonomous droid "follow the previous car" mode. Not speeding, no "reckless driving", not driving a high-performance BMW. These are people who normally drive under speed limits, in the middle of the road (law clearly says: on the right end of the lane, period), blocking the usual traffic. When I overtake them and switch high beams on at exact correct moment, it takes some 5-10 seconds of reaction time for them to turn high beams off, if that happens at all. Because their brain is shut down. If anything unexpected happens, it's a 100% surely accident.

Officially, they are the role models because they drive at 70 km/h max. This is very funny when we have a road which would be 110 km/h in any other European country, including our neighbor Sweden, but we have the 80 km/h limit furher taken down to 70 km/h by such white Kias. It becomes even funnier when a few semi trucks get behind them and cannot overtake. Then your only option is to participate in the massive jam getting even more massive, or start "driving recklessly".
« Last Edit: October 31, 2020, 02:01:35 pm by Siwastaja »
 

Offline madires

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Re: When driving and mobile/car phones were legal
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2020, 02:26:34 pm »
Modern cars have built-in mobile phones for telemetry, OTA updates and other fancy stuff. I wonder when car manufacturers will add phone calls. >:D

PS: I'm using the bluetooth based hands-free feature of my car stereo.
 

Offline HalcyonTopic starter

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Re: When driving and mobile/car phones were legal
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2020, 11:36:11 pm »
Use of mobile phones by the driver while driving were introduced in Australia in 2012, which wasn't that long ago.
They were in place by 1999 in several jurisdictions, NSW, ACT, VIC, and SA, at least. Care of a nationalisation of the road rules.

Given the narrow period of use of car phones in Australia, we can guess your age pretty well.

Ahh yes, you are correct. They were strengthened in 2012. Still, I can still remember when there was no such law prohibiting handheld phones.
 

Online themadhippy

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Re: When driving and mobile/car phones were legal
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2020, 11:52:36 pm »
Is it still the case in the uk that its illegal to use a phone whilst driving  but  a 2 way radio is fine
 

Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: When driving and mobile/car phones were legal
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2020, 12:17:45 am »
I think back then they were probably treated the same way as a CB radio... and probably outputted about the same amount of watts too! lol  And people worry about 5g.  :-DD

 

Offline vk6zgo

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Re: When driving and mobile/car phones were legal
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2020, 01:15:36 am »
I think back then they were probably treated the same way as a CB radio... and probably outputted about the same amount of watts too! lol  And people worry about 5g.  :-DD
CBs only have 5 watts output, using AM, or 12 watts PEP using SSB.
The UHF FM CBs in Oz are 5 Watts FM, so I assume the 27MHz FM ones which were used in most European countries would be similar.

Cellphones, CBs, ham radios, taxi radios, etc have one thing in common.
They spend a lot more time in receive mode than they do in transmit, so their duty cycle is very much less than a broadcasting station.
 

Offline vk6zgo

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Re: When driving and mobile/car phones were legal
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2020, 01:25:53 am »
Is it still the case in the uk that its illegal to use a phone whilst driving  but  a 2 way radio is fine

The big advantage of a 2 way radio (or a bluetooth connected phone), is that you don't have to look at them to use them.

What freaks me out are the huge central displays on modern car dashboards.
Their bright garish colour schemes just beg you to look at them.

Add to that, the transfer of some control functions to the touchscreen function on these, & they are a recipe for distraction & disaster.
If you want to select between sources for your in car entertainment system, for instance, you usually have to do it on the screen.
 

Offline Someone

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Re: When driving and mobile/car phones were legal
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2020, 03:01:30 am »
Modern cars have built-in mobile phones for telemetry, OTA updates and other fancy stuff. I wonder when car manufacturers will add phone calls. >:D
Prestige and sports vehicles have had this in various forms since the 90's including the ability to make calls. Lifespan of a mobile network technology/frequency pairing averages around 12 years in Australia, cars last much longer.
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: When driving and mobile/car phones were legal
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2020, 07:00:33 pm »
They were legal in the USA until relatively recently, maybe 10 years ago? Back in the early days of mobile phones they were so expensive that very few people had them and it wasn't enough of a problem for anyone to make it illegal. Also in the analog days a mobile phone was just a phone, there were no games or social media or other crap. Once it got so that everyone had one and the capabilities of the devices grew the number of accidents caused by distracted driving rose dramatically. Personally I think it should be a criminal offense if you cause any sort of accident while driving distracted, I see it so often and have nearly been run down multiple times.


Last winter, I heard an almighty crash on a nearby road...  I went for a walk, and found a BMW driven into a telephone pole, a total write-off.  The driver's explanation sounded a little rehearsed...  "the snow on the side of the road caught the car and forced it off the road"...   I thought, you forgot to add "while I was busy on my phone!"

 

Offline Ranayna

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Re: When driving and mobile/car phones were legal
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2020, 08:53:16 pm »
The funny thing is, that in germany, the legislation was recently expanded to *any* multimedia device with a touchscreen.
Technically, that would mean you cannot use the touchscreen of a tesla *at all* while "ready to drive" :P.
Honestly though i have no idea how "ready to drive" would be defined with a electric car, with an ICE i means while the motor is running.

And, while i have not yet driven a tesla, or any other car with such a "touch heavy" user interface, i tend to agree. I am already annoyed by the touchscreen to change radio stations of a VW Golf.
 

Offline vk6zgo

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Re: When driving and mobile/car phones were legal
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2020, 12:41:12 am »
They were legal in the USA until relatively recently, maybe 10 years ago? Back in the early days of mobile phones they were so expensive that very few people had them and it wasn't enough of a problem for anyone to make it illegal. Also in the analog days a mobile phone was just a phone, there were no games or social media or other crap. Once it got so that everyone had one and the capabilities of the devices grew the number of accidents caused by distracted driving rose dramatically. Personally I think it should be a criminal offense if you cause any sort of accident while driving distracted, I see it so often and have nearly been run down multiple times.
Last winter, I heard an almighty crash on a nearby road...  I went for a walk, and found a BMW driven into a telephone pole, a total write-off.  The driver's explanation sounded a little rehearsed...  "the snow on the side of the road caught the car and forced it off the road"...   I thought, you forgot to add "while I was busy on my phone!"

I think it could also be a failing in driver education.

We had, a few years back, in my part of Oz, a slew of cases where people inadvertently got the kerbside wheels off the sealed road & onto the "soft shoulder".
They were so paranoid about this happening that they jerked the wheel violently to get back on the road, lost control, & crashed.

Many years ago, when I was first licenced, there were a lot of country roads where the sealed part was quite narrow, with a metre or so of gravel either side (there were also many km of unsealed road).
If you drove outside the cities, if you met a car travelling in the opposite direction, you had to partially go onto this unsealed part.

The advice was to slowly steer onto & off the "soft shoulder" in such situations.
Obvious the same sort of advice worked if you drifted off the sealed road for any other reason.

 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: When driving and mobile/car phones were legal
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2020, 02:15:37 am »
They were legal in the USA until relatively recently, maybe 10 years ago? Back in the early days of mobile phones they were so expensive that very few people had them and it wasn't enough of a problem for anyone to make it illegal. Also in the analog days a mobile phone was just a phone, there were no games or social media or other crap. Once it got so that everyone had one and the capabilities of the devices grew the number of accidents caused by distracted driving rose dramatically. Personally I think it should be a criminal offense if you cause any sort of accident while driving distracted, I see it so often and have nearly been run down multiple times.
Last winter, I heard an almighty crash on a nearby road...  I went for a walk, and found a BMW driven into a telephone pole, a total write-off.  The driver's explanation sounded a little rehearsed...  "the snow on the side of the road caught the car and forced it off the road"...   I thought, you forgot to add "while I was busy on my phone!"

I think it could also be a failing in driver education.

We had, a few years back, in my part of Oz, a slew of cases where people inadvertently got the kerbside wheels off the sealed road & onto the "soft shoulder".
They were so paranoid about this happening that they jerked the wheel violently to get back on the road, lost control, & crashed.

Many years ago, when I was first licenced, there were a lot of country roads where the sealed part was quite narrow, with a metre or so of gravel either side (there were also many km of unsealed road).
If you drove outside the cities, if you met a car travelling in the opposite direction, you had to partially go onto this unsealed part.

The advice was to slowly steer onto & off the "soft shoulder" in such situations.
Obvious the same sort of advice worked if you drifted off the sealed road for any other reason.

This particular road was very narrow and there are no shoulders - the speed limit is 25.   The only way to lose control of a car on this stretch is by having your nose buried in your phone!

That said, I agree about lacking driver education.  Back in the day, my instructor forced me to do all kinds of difficult things - backing up around corners while staying close to the kerb,  reversing longs distances slaloming between cones, etc. etc. - he felt that if you couldn't confidently control the basic operation a car, you shouldn't be on the road!  One of the teachers I remember fondly...
 


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