General > General Technical Chat
When is product certification required (or not!)
Benta:
@floobydust, I'm sorry to hear about your experiences.
It's seems that the NA market for this kind of thing is completely skewed (this could be a business opportunity for someone!).
Here in the EU, I've only had great experiences with the testing/certification consultants.
The first certification was difficult (you have to learn), but the subsequent ones went through like a dream.
The secret is getting the CE consultants on board already in the design phase. They provide so many tips and tricks, that the final certification is just whoosh! and it's done.
If you need CE at some point, PM me and I'll name you a couple of companies over here (don't worry, they speak English).
thm_w:
I use many products given or sold by major companies that are not certified: programmers and development kits. However, they are obviously intended to only be used by professionals and not end users.
The containing batteries and wireless functionality does make it a lot riskier.
Is there no way to achieve the same operation with an off the shelf product, eg cell phone, battery bank, etc?
floobydust:
Number one mistake is rationalizing that no product certification or approvals are even necessary.
One CEO demanded I prove that a product for sale in the USA needed safety approvals "where is it written?". The USA doesn't have Federal law about it, it's the jurisdictions -town/village/municipality that has the laws, as if it's the Wild West. Example NFPA-70 for electrical code, some states use bits and pieces or do not even require it. Other safety standards are not law until there's a fire or explosion, then the jurisdiction figure it's good to adopt it.
Point is, do your homework to see what the applicable safety standards are or ask an agency for a consult about it- although they don't like telling you that, they are liable for any mistake there.
Number two mistake is getting certification or approvals at the END of a product development project, considered as a formality.
Right when the product is "finished" and you're almost ready to sell it, there's this little formality amidst a ton of pressure to start selling it and make money.
But certification will always have findings requiring design changes, unless you've got senior engineers that know the standards and are well experienced.
Some managers try to outsmart the safety standards by coming up with some cockamamie idea, others get furious and hate the certification people (as if they don't notice the disrespect), others find a certification body that is dodgy, there are some out there.
I worked a lot on product development in oil and gas, where combustion, electrical and hazardous location safety standards are to be met.
I've had a CEO, engineering manager push to get it through approvals, regardless if it's actually safe or not. Many noob engineers/techs pleasing the boss and going along with the sneaky moves. One product a mosfet shorted due to ESD leaving a gas solenoid turned on. Well, two explosions occurred and that did nothing to change the ethics at that company. I tell them that product should not even be on the market, I will not sign off on anything about it, and let's shoot that engineer messenger lol.
CE means nothing in North America, china has thoroughly bastardized the CE label with their unsafe exports of mains-powered goods, and fake certificates if any.
I've never heard of the EU actually asking someone to provide CE proof, ever. That they allow this to happen, means nobody is actually doing any policing or enforcement it seems, and china exploits this. Even in Canada there is nothing preventing unsafe china products from being imported, we allow it.
janoc:
--- Quote from: thm_w on June 09, 2022, 01:53:04 am ---I use many products given or sold by major companies that are not certified: programmers and development kits. However, they are obviously intended to only be used by professionals and not end users.
--- End quote ---
That is irrelevant. There is no difference between "professionals" and "end users" in this regard.
What matters is that kits generally don't need to be certified - only final products do.
If something is a component intended to be assembled into something else (a module, part, even a kit), you don't need to certify. But it is often advantageous to do so for business reasons (e.g. wireless pre-certified modules are easier to get through the EMC testing than having to do it from scratch).
Re programmers - I am pretty sure if that thing is a "boxed" product (i.e. not a bare PCB with a USB connector sticking out of it), it will have an FCC/CE certification markings at least.
janoc:
--- Quote from: floobydust on June 09, 2022, 02:49:47 am ---I've never heard of the EU actually asking someone to provide CE proof, ever. That they allow this to happen, means nobody is actually doing any policing or enforcement it seems, and china exploits this.
--- End quote ---
That's not true. However, the regime is different from North America. There you must do the paperwork and lab visits before you are allowed to bring anything to the market.
In the EU you need to do the paperwork - but you are allowed to self certify. All you need to produce is a paper ("declaration of conformity") that your product conforms to the relevant regulations and standards, stick CE marking on it and you are good to sell it.
Enforcement happens only if there is a complaint or the gadget is found unsafe. Either because of some incident caused by it or by a random inspection/testing. If you have declared that the device is conforming and it is found to not be the case, that's when you will be in trouble, either as the manufacturer or importer (importers are the ones responsible for the conformity declarations on imported goods if the manufacturer doesn't provide it). As a minimum the product will get recalled and the manufacturer/importer may get fined.
There is no systematic testing and certification of everything being brought to the market in Europe, that would be completely unfeasible (and not only because of China). However, that covers only the CE marking, many products require additional things that CE may not cover and will be subjected to systematic testing (e.g. medical, safety critical stuff, etc.)
See here for details (including link to the RAPEX website listing the various alerts and notifications about dangerous products):
https://www.cemarkingassociation.co.uk/how-is-the-ce-mark-enforced/
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