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When will MS replace the NT-kernel in windows?

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Karel:
So, it's not true that, when windows Vista was introduced, new drivers had to be written...

Binary compatibility inside the kernel is only important if you support closed source drivers which Linux doesn't
so it's a non-problem. Except maybe for nvidia graphics cards but I'm convinced that if MS would switch to a Linux
kernel, also nvidia would switch to open source drivers like AMD and Intel already do.

nctnico:

--- Quote from: asmi on January 23, 2024, 09:54:02 pm ---
--- Quote from: Karel on January 23, 2024, 05:00:45 pm ---Technical difficulties aside, all this justifies the question when MS will replace the NT kernel with a Linux kernel.

--- End quote ---
Not anytime soon for sure. Linux kernel is a total mess compared to modern NT kernel, and their propensity to break binary compatibility on just about every kernel release turns driver maintenance into a nightmare, while for NT kernel, even quite old drivers tend to work just fine. Couple that with incredibly slow and convoluted process of upstreaming a driver (which is the only semi-reliable way to ensure your driver won't break down after every other kernel release), and you can see why Windows model is much more appealing. One can get a device driver from zero to release in a couple of months, good luck achieving the same for Linux driver - you'll be lucky if somebody bothers to even look at your PR a year after submission, and then will complain about some BS like a semicolon being in a wrong place, and you will have to go through entire process again :palm: While Windows kernel interface is mature and stable, and so you can simply compile your kernel once, get it signed - and you're done.

--- End quote ---
That is why sensible manufacturers of hardware  (or software needing special drivers) distribute their drivers as source code which gets compiled during installation of the supporting software. Take Virtualbox and Nvidia as an example. All the infrastructure to do this exists from the kernel side.

shapirus:

--- Quote from: asmi on January 23, 2024, 09:54:02 pm ---Not anytime soon for sure. Linux kernel is a total mess compared to modern NT kernel, and their propensity to break binary compatibility on just about every kernel release turns driver maintenance into a nightmare, while for NT kernel, even quite old drivers tend to work just fine. Couple that with incredibly slow and convoluted process of upstreaming a driver (which is the only semi-reliable way to ensure your driver won't break down after every other kernel release), and you can see why Windows model is much more appealing.

--- End quote ---
Ironically, Windows NT kernel is much more of Unix way example than Linux, which is indeed an absolutely monstrous monolith now.

You're absolutely right about drivers, and that's a big problem in real life, which must be obvious for anyone who has not isolated himself, like e.g. RMS, in a bubble where nothing but FOSS exists and nothing but FOSS has any importance. In reality, the practical impossibility of distributing binary drivers that will work across a wide range of Linux kernel versions is, in addition to userspace problems of a similar nature, a significant hindrance to its wider adoption on desktops.

Zero999:
What's the point in binary drivers? The vendor makes money from the hardware, not drivers and they can still distribute the driver source, under a proprietary licence if they want to.

langwadt:

--- Quote from: Zero999 on January 23, 2024, 11:27:37 pm ---What's the point in binary drivers? The vendor makes money from the hardware, not drivers and they can still distribute the driver source, under a proprietary licence if they want to.

--- End quote ---

They might have bought some of the code from someone else so they can't opensource it. The are are afraid the source code would reveal some of their secret sauce in the hardware

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