General > General Technical Chat
When will MS replace the NT-kernel in windows?
Nominal Animal:
--- Quote from: nctnico on January 24, 2024, 10:42:32 am ---If everything that Lennart made is so bad, then why did his software end up in so many Linux distributions?
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Because he is socially very adept, as I already described.
It is at the core of the "negativity" against Poettering. To those with mediocre to poor social skills –– and that covers a large majority of the FOSS software developers (because it is one arena they can shine, and the work is their hobby, with no social life to impact on their productivity) ––, it is like having an extremely attractive co-worker who gets all the raises and bonuses just because of how they look and interact with others, even when the quality of their actual work they get paid for is horrible, always needing others to come after them and clean things up.
This is all very well documented in Debian mailing lists, when Debian decided to adopt systemd. It was a social decision, not a technical one.
Daniel J. Bernstein is just about the exact opposite of Poettering. Not only is his code output of very high quality (the bug density is orders of magnitude closer to zero than in general), but his work in math and cryptography is excellent, too. Yet, many consider him a nobody. Before the turn of the millenium, qmail was orders of magnitude better (faster, fewer bugs) than sendmail, but just about all sendmail "fanbois" (that I knew of back then, all were mail server admins) hated DJB and qmail with a passion. Similarly with djbdns and dnscache vs. bind.
He fits well within the math and crypto academia (they're all weirdos there anyway), but all software folks I know ignore him, because he hasn't marketed himself as well as the likes of Poettering.
It is the loudest squeaky wheel that gets the grease; the one that works quietly without fault for decades is always forgotten.
nctnico:
Well, there are many things on this world which are technically inferior to alternatives (like VHS video tapes, electric cars, MS Windows, etc ,etc) but got hyped by people who got very rich of it. But it takes people buying the products to actually generate that money. Maybe technology in itself is not so important as you think.
And I don't think implementing systemd on any Linux distro is a result of social engineering but based on the simple fact that systemd is more advanced and a better fit (from a maintenance perspective) for modern day systems compared to the old sysv init. Regardless who wrote it.
newbrain:
--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on January 24, 2024, 11:10:48 am ---...
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Since you blocked me, here is the text of the PM I tried to send you. The argument is closed for me.
--- Quote ---I don't want to further pollute the thread, and that was never my intention, so this PM.
Please note that I was not directly addressing you and your arguments, it just happened that yours was the last post.
What I felt is that the thread was drifting to the usual sterile diatribe that you are, I am sure, very aware of.
And I admitted the post was clumsy, though done in good faith, and to bring the opinion of someone much more qualified than me.
Why resort to personal insult?
I do not always agree with you 100% - and that's fine - but in general you are one of the few "wall of text" posters that I take the time to read, as you have reasoned arguments.
Any other person with that answer would have been in my ignore list in a nanosecond, after being reported.
You were neither, take it for what it's worth.
--- End quote ---
magic:
--- Quote from: nctnico on January 24, 2024, 11:41:53 am ---And I don't think implementing systemd on any Linux distro is a result of social engineering but based on the simple fact that systemd is more advanced and a better fit (from a maintenance perspective) for modern day systems compared to the old sysv init. Regardless who wrote it.
--- End quote ---
Yes, it gained entry into distribution by being marginally less PITA than sysvinit, and then expanded into an all-encompassing monstrosity.
Funny than Nominal mentioned DJB and DNS, because at one point systemd decided that they need to build their own DNS cache as well (obviously, everyone knows an init system needs one) and ended up repeating well known mistakes, bugs and security vulnerabilities that have long been studied and resolved by everybody else. Like, they could have avoided it by literally asking on StackOverflow "what rookie errors to avoid in a DNS implementation", maybe even by typing it into google.
And that's how Lennart's projects rise: bait distribution with promises of solving known problems, then dump loads of overengineered and unproven solutions on them and use others' production systems as testing sandbox.
Of course you get what you pay for, and that's why even free isn't cheap enough for me to buy anything from this guy. This and his arrogant attitude that everything is other people's problem, even if it could be better solved by systemd than anyone else. I recall arguing with Lennart personally about one of those things, utter waste of time.
tooki:
--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on January 24, 2024, 11:28:06 am ---It is at the core of the "negativity" against Poettering. To those with mediocre to poor social skills –– and that covers a large majority of the FOSS software developers (because it is one arena they can shine, and the work is their hobby, with no social life to impact on their productivity)
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Just to be clear, though: most open source software development today happens within the scope of people’s jobs. The days where most of it was coding people did on their own time are long gone.
See e.g. https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/evolution-open-source-contributors-hobbyists-professionals
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