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Which is more complex - car or an operating system?

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james_s:

--- Quote from: Rerouter on June 02, 2020, 11:13:30 am ---Cars and trucks usually have less total software complexity, but that is somewhat required to still be able to review and test for edge cases, its one of the few industries where its not easy to "just patch it after release"

Each module is very built for purpose, meaning there is not much generalized code, take a normal ECU, most times the ROM image is in the ballpark of 256MB or less,

The main horrible mess of complexity can be found in the "infotainment" system, e.g. the radio and all the other crap that gets packed in there, more often than not they literally run on linux, and are bodge upon bodge upon bodge, but as certain parts will be stripped down for size, likely puts it at less than a fully featured OS.

Think of it like everything but the radio is usually akin to a large microprocessor written with embedded code, the radio is like a raspberry pi with enough hats to scrape the ceiling.

--- End quote ---

It seems crazy that modern ECUs would have a 256MB ROM, the ECU in my car has a 4K ROM.

Those infotainment systems are garbage, integrating tech with a 2-4 year life cycle into an expensive machine with a 15-30 year life cycle is ludicrous. Personally when I'm driving a car I'm *driving* the car and nothing else, if I want music I've got a thumb drive full of MP3s that I can plug into my head unit. Virtually everybody on the planet already has a smartphone these days, if auto makers want to include some sort of infotainment then just provide a nice integrated cubby in the dash with a clip to hold a phone with a USB socket for charging and BT receiver in the stereo. No infotainment system can ever hope to keep up with smartphones, every one of those systems will be woefully dated and obsolete a decade or more before the car is worn out.

james_s:

--- Quote from: Syntax Error on June 02, 2020, 09:05:43 pm ---Perhaps another question is, which part of a car does not require an operating system? Just about everything from the oil flow sensor to the courtesy light subsystem is chattering away on the CAN bus. Name one device in a modern vehicle that does not require a bootloader/RTOS to function? Just one device you can fix with a multimeter rather than spending a really expensive diagnostic day/week plugged into some customer care service center, trying to figure out why the cruise control only works when the parking brake is engaged?

  :-// Fix it? It's your software mate.

--- End quote ---

The battery?

Windshield washer pump, light bulbs, a few other things, not a whole lot though.

So far I've never owned a car newer than 1990 and I doubt I'll ever have anything newer than early 2000's unless I just get some beater to get me around at some point. They're all crap now, nothing has piqued my interest in the least, especially now that I hardly ever drive anymore.

MK14:

--- Quote from: daqq on June 02, 2020, 10:55:41 am ---Which is more complex - car or an operating system?

--- End quote ---
{Quote changed to title, to make it brief}

There are some (relatively) rough and ready techniques/tricks, to guage (technical) complexity.
One method, is to go back in time, and see when a 'modern' version, of the item in question. First (significantly), appeared on the market.

E.g. In 1971, the Microprocessor first appeared on the market (opinions sometimes vary on the exact dates/years and which was the first one).

So, for the modern day car, I guess you would be talking around the mid-1990s (opinions, can easily vary).

For the modern day operating systems (windows was highlighted by the OP), I would say around the mid-1990s, windows was somewhat modern like.

So, I'd (very approximately), call it a tie.

Mr. Scram:

--- Quote from: MK14 on June 02, 2020, 09:38:32 pm ---{Quote changed to title, to make it brief}

There are some (relatively) rough and ready techniques/tricks, to guage (technical) complexity.
One method, is to go back in time, and see when a 'modern' version, of the item in question. First (significantly), appeared on the market.

E.g. In 1971, the Microprocessor first appeared on the market (opinions sometimes vary on the exact dates/years and which was the first one).

So, for the modern day car, I guess you would be talking around the mid-1990s (opinions, can easily vary).

For the modern day operating systems (windows was highlighted by the OP), I would say around the mid-1990s, windows was somewhat modern like.

So, I'd (very approximately), call it a tie.

--- End quote ---
Why would you say the modern car appeared in the 90s? I'd have said the 30s perhaps, or 50s or early 60s. The 90s feels completely arbitrary as almost all the development back then was iterative.

Mr. Scram:

--- Quote from: james_s on June 02, 2020, 09:18:02 pm ---The battery?

Windshield washer pump, light bulbs, a few other things, not a whole lot though.

So far I've never owned a car newer than 1990 and I doubt I'll ever have anything newer than early 2000's unless I just get some beater to get me around at some point. They're all crap now, nothing has piqued my interest in the least, especially now that I hardly ever drive anymore.

--- End quote ---
You absolutely positively have to mention this at the slightest provocation, don't you?  :-DD

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