Author Topic: who can help me to bying a scope? i need for payment&receive&ship to my forwarde  (Read 4380 times)

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Online bdunham7

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Chinese new scopes goes over 20Gs and more, and can be freely purchased by government or military e.t.c. 
I'm the hobbyist only, this series of Lecroy is pretty good for home (compact, high performance) and low cost valued.

I understand and sympathize.  The US government doesn't.  It's not intentional AFAIK, just the way things are.
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline smaultreTopic starter

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Can you give any documented evidence that this-one scope is prohibited? I do not found no confirmation. Why do you state so affirmatively?
Just heard something like this somewhere? in this document https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/us-export-restrictions-on-oscilloscopes-to-hungary/?action=dlattach;attach=842398 on section 3A002 does not complies to 44Xi characteristics.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 07:11:17 am by smaultre »
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Offline Simon

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They won't even ship to the UK, they probably don't want the hassle of shipping abroad which I can appreciate.
 

Offline smaultreTopic starter

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They won't even ship to the UK, they probably don't want the hassle of shipping abroad which I can appreciate.
But, firstones here, me told that i'm a scammer, or isis terrorist.
Second ones says that the people, who may attempt to help me, would become accomplices in the "development of enemy weapons".
I'm just asking for help if possible.
I am not going to break laws or frame anyone.
Most likely they just do not want to contact foreign buyers in general, for all lots.
That is why I asked for mediation.
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Offline Simon

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Best way is you trust someone and pay them upfront the maximum you want to bid plus all other charges, if they can win it for you then they can forward it on to you, but if the seller is unwilling it likely means that it is a lot of hassle. For example I try to avoid items over 2kg going abroad as after that the postage is a nightmare and it is cheaper to send 2x 2kg items for less than 1x 4kg one. These are the sorts of things that turn something apparently simple into a nightmare.
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Having dealt with logistics to complicated countries myself in a distant past, I can understand the seller's stance on shipping this abroad. That said, I am in sync with others that are saying you need to find someone that you know and trust that lives in the US to do this transaction for you. It is hard to do the packaging that will survive the trip, as well as deal with the paperwork.
Not being able to do this for you, I can only wish you good luck.
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Online bdunham7

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Can you give any documented evidence that this-one scope is prohibited? I do not found no confirmation. Why do you state so affirmatively?
Just heard something like this somewhere? in this document https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/us-export-restrictions-on-oscilloscopes-to-hungary/?action=dlattach;attach=842398 on section 3A002 does not complies to 44Xi characteristics.

No I can't give you documented evidence that it is prohibited and in fact I doubt that it actually is. What I'm stating affirmatively is that I can't be sure that it is NOT prohibited. If it still is, then the regulation is a bit silly at this point.  However, read what you linked and look under ADCs of 8 bits or more with 1 billion words per second.  These regulations are not easy to interpret or comply with and most sellers just don't want the hassle and risk of dealing with these compliance issues.  The easiest path for a seller is to just avoid the issue altogether.  I'm not going to link it, so I'll hope that you take me at my word, but I do have a document that clearly indicates that at one time, scopes with greater than 2.5GS/s sample rate required an export license.
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline nctnico

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They won't even ship to the UK, they probably don't want the hassle of shipping abroad which I can appreciate.
I can kind of understand that but with Ebay's Global Shipping Program international shipping is extremely easy for (US based) sellers nowadays. They just send it to a USPS collection point and be done with it. Shipping prices are very reasonable on top of that. I have bought lots of different items from US sellers on Ebay using GSP. Works like a charm.

Most likely they just do not want to contact foreign buyers in general, for all lots.
They state that very clearly in the auction description. In such cases you can ask if they can ship using the Ebay GLobal Shipping program. I have had some success asking sellers who -principally- do not ship abroad to ship it to me anyway. However if the answer is negative you have to respect that.

Finding someone in the same country as the seller and being willing to forward it is your only option. But then again; good deals appear on Ebay all the time so it is better to wait for the next good deal. There are several Lecroy 44XI scopes for sale on Ebay. Even one from China with free shipping to Russia. If I where you I'd try to hammer out a deal with the one from China. Don't be afraid to make lowball offers.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2020, 08:26:25 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline smaultreTopic starter

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After the new year, the are new customs rules here, with greater fee's from 0$.. That's why i ask for help now.

... but I do have a document that clearly indicates that at one time, scopes with greater than 2.5GS/s sample rate required an export license.
Can you attach these document i need to explore if it is really prohibited. I think that's selling / shipping 1pcs used equip, no need any license.
And the licence needs for only a commercial batch of goods..
I do not want to break any laws, and this is for my clear understanding.
We have here in Russia, the trade mission of all distributors Lecroy, Tek, Agilent,... etc. Anyone can freely buy any scopes they made.
But the prices so high .. That's why, i search on Ebay.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2020, 04:53:29 am by smaultre »
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Offline BravoV

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All you need to do is really simple, write down the terms you are willing to do ..

1. You are willing to send the money "FIRST" to the buyer who helps you with max budget for bidding.
2. Once the bidding won, you are willingly to send more money for the shipping it to you.
3. You are willingly to pay the "fee" for the troubles that the helper going through all of these to help you. You're not expecting your helper do it for free right ?

Once you publicly announce this, hopefully this makes really good and helpful people not shy away to step up to help you, that includes bad guys too, but I leave this to you.  :P

And NO ... you just can not vaguely or intentionally never mention above terms, while keep nagging and saying ... "Trust me ! Trust me ! I am not a bad guy  ... I promise !!!" ... c'mon ....  :palm:

Also with your low post count here, people tend not to easily trust new comer, does this make any sense ?

And yes, I have couple friends that I made here in this forum alone, that already helped me in the past on buying stuffs from ebay as I don't live in US, more than once.


Kids these days ...  :palm:
 
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Offline smaultreTopic starter

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1. I willing to send the money (PayPal) "FIRST" to the buyer who try helps me with max budget for bidding.
2. Once the bidding won, i willingly send more money for the shipping it to me or my forwarder located in Delaware (discuss-able).
3. I willingly to pay the "fee" for the troubles that my helper going through all of these to help me. + become a friends (invaluable!)
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Online bdunham7

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A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline smaultreTopic starter

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...  Engaging in Prohibited Conduct by Exporting Oscilloscopes to Pakistan Without the Required Licenses  :palm:
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Online bdunham7

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Pakistan isn't the issue, this is an example of an enforcement action relating to the unlicensed export of 3 (three!) oscilloscopes with capabilities similar to the one you want.  I assure you that Russia is currently not a favored trading partner and there are many sanctions and restrictions in place.  One that I saw involved the US Government (BIS) eliminating the Civil End User exemption from the export restrictions on certain items.  In other words, they presume that any technology being exported would be diverted to prohibited or sanctioned use.  For Russia, this includes the energy industry.

Look, I'd love to be your friend.  Anyone that wants to fix an old oscilloscope sounds like a friend of mine!  But our governments aren't on good terms right now and unfortunately, there is more posturing and showmanship than any common sense.  I'm sure that there are US Attorneys that would love to grab someone up for 'illegal arms exports" and perp-walk them in front of the cameras.  It's good for their careers and they don't care if the charges would seem ludicrous to anyone with any technical knowledge.  If I get arrested for sending you that scope, how many EEs are going to be on the jury?
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline Simon

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this is ultimately the problem. If the item could fall in the restricted category anyone sending the scope out of the USA will be held responsible in a case about illegal exports.
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Try to find the HTS or ECCN number for the oscilloscope you want and see if it is EAR99 (unrestricted). I suspect it will not be. You could probably ask the manufacturer, as your freight forwarder would need this information anyways.

About ten years ago Russia had ITAR restrictions, but I didn't keep up with this.

What myself and others are showing are simply the pitfalls and details of such transaction. I lived most of my life in a country where getting minimally decent test gear was a herculean task, thus I can sympathize with your plight.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2020, 07:08:34 pm by rsjsouza »
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Offline ajb

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Best way is you trust someone and pay them upfront

In this case, it's even more important that the proxy buyer trust the OP, because it's the proxy buyer that is assuming legal liability for the export of the scope. 

Can you attach these document i need to explore if it is really prohibited. I think that's selling / shipping 1pcs used equip, no need any license.
And the licence needs for only a commercial batch of goods..
I do not want to break any laws, and this is for my clear understanding.
We have here in Russia, the trade mission of all distributors Lecroy, Tek, Agilent,... etc. Anyone can freely buy any scopes they made.
But the prices so high .. That's why, i search on Ebay.

There's generally no exemption for selling a single used item versus a thousand new ones when it comes to export controls.  It's easier to fly under the radar, but it's not a defense if you get caught, even ignorance of the law won't save you.  Shipping companies WILL ask for the export classification and/or tariff codes anyway.  It also applies to ANYTHING that leaves the US, regardless of where it was made, so it can even be illegal to send an item back to the country where it was manufactured.  It seems stupid and annoying, and some of it IS definitely non-sensical (like the way ITAR handles cryptography), but it's also genuinely hard to write laws and regulations that effectively address the real security and economic issues without being a huge pain for everyone.

If you want to definitively determine the export status of the scope, you need to look at ITAR (which I have little experience with), but also the US Commerce Control List, which is here: https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/regulations/export-administration-regulations-ear

Categories 3,4,5, and maybe even 6 could apply to the scope.  Even for a person with native english it can be challenging reading because the categories are complicated.  It's a lot of "if X but not Y and any of A, B, or D but not C" and can include some very finely-split hairs, so it can take a good hour to work through a single item for the first time.  That will get you an Export Control Classification Number that you will need for paperwork (you may also need an international uniform tariff code or other country-specific classifications), and from that you can determine which, if any, export controls apply to the item.  Then you need to look at the Commerce Country Chart to see if any of those export controls are in effect for the destination country.  Finally, you need to verify that the recipient is not subject to specific export controls based on a list maintained by the export administration, and you need to somehow assure that the recipient does not intend to re-export the item or transfer it to someone else who is subject to export controls.  So it's all complicated, and getting it wrong can result in stiff penalties as the settlement linked by bdunham7 shows.

...  Engaging in Prohibited Conduct by Exporting Oscilloscopes to Pakistan Without the Required Licenses  :palm:
FWIW Pakistan and Russia actually have similar US export controls.  Pakistan is subject to an extra Nuclear Proliferation control, and they have slightly different Crime Control export restrictions, but otherwise they have similar restrictions.
 

Offline coppercone2

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there is also tension with Turkey right now relating to the S400 system and the F35 (they don't want them together with the same operator), some one could make a stupid move with starting a investigation because it seems vaguely related to something you would use for a radar and it involves Russia. And trump seems to be driving the legislative system insane right now for the next month. These regulations might get basically randomly scrutinized or are being scrutinized right now because of panic.

Do I like the stuff because of POI restrictions on spectrum analyzers? no.

https://www.defensenews.com/air/2020/07/20/its-official-us-air-force-to-buy-turkish-f-35s/

Is this thing super outdated for EW? a definite yes.

Trump might have signed literary what ever at the end of the term.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2020, 04:42:47 am by coppercone2 »
 

Offline smaultreTopic starter

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bla-bla-bla- terrorist, isis, nuclear weapon... Turkish??  what a s????? on your heads? I only ask to help buy simple low cost scope. :palm:
I had a better opinion of yours guys, you ruined my impression. Take off the TV, from your heads..
« Last Edit: December 08, 2020, 12:17:06 pm by smaultre »
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Offline Simon

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bla-bla-bla- terrorist, isis, nuclear weapon... Turkish??  what a sheet on your heads? I only ask to help buy simple low cost scope. :palm:
I had a better opinion of yours guys, you ruined my impression.

That response is the very reason no one wants to help. No one gives a shit what you want or what it will be used for bla bla bla, they give a shit about not accidentally exporting a prohibited item without permission as "ignorance of the law is no defense", you seem to ignore the real risk the partner will have to take or at least the headache of dealing with something that could have export complications.

Why don't you at least do your own homework and find out if you can import such an item?
 

Offline Berni

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You should be angry at the US not us.

I had similar problems with trying to buy gear from the US. Also they are the reason why the thermal camera here on my desk is software handicapped to only run at 7fps. The easiest solution is to just go for a different scope from a different seller.

Even more test gear gets destroyed on purpose on site for various reasons, be it for secrecy or making the paperwork simpler by avoiding the gear having resale value and the tax that comes along with that.
 

Offline smaultreTopic starter

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I'm not talking about sanctions, I don't want to force anyone to break the law.
I'm talking about others, not related to the topic of accusations.

When you accuse us, Russians, of bad deeds. Do not forget, that this is not done by me, and not by my neighbor. It is not ordinary Russians, who do this.
And ours mafia elite, which keeps their capital, yachts, real estate, friends and family, on the territory of European countries, UK, NATO, and the United States ...
They are plundering us, conducting their gangster business, substituting the ordinary Russian people for a pre-war situation.
And this is yours politicians, allow them to  live in luxury, hide the stolen (from Us) capital, support their families, train them in your best institutions ...
This is not me doing!
« Last Edit: December 11, 2020, 07:06:31 am by smaultre »
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Offline smaultreTopic starter

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how can i delete this tread?
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Offline Simon

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just ignore the next notification and you will hear no more of it, if you don't post others are unlikely to respond.
 


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