Who'd have thought there would be fradulent eBay auctions of IPA?

[MattP79]

Hi all,

I wanted a new 1 litre bottle of IPA as I've nearly run out so went to eBay UK and my saved listing.  Ooops - they've sold out. I should have bought some two weeks ago when I thought about it...  With the supermarkets and chemists sold out of hand sanitiser, IPA must be the latest item to panic buy / profiteer on whilst people make their own.  A 1 litre bottle of 99% IPA would normally cost around £7. Thanks to profiteering the cheapest bottle I can find is £26 with most listings wanting between £40 and £49.  I do wonder what could go wrong with masses of people playing with 99% IPA and spraying it everywhere.

Anyway.  Amongst the eBay listings I spotted a few listings for 5L bottles at only £9.95 or thereabouts. That's too cheap - even when people weren't panic buying.  This already twigs my "It's-a-scam-o-meter".  Fortnite is updating so I did some digging.  The seller is China based with zero feedback and their account was created in 2018.  They have 5 active listings - all for 5L bottles of IPA priced between £9.95 and £9.98.  I'm now pretty convinced now this is a straight up scam with a stolen account.  Sadly it's been astonishingly effective and profitable.  As of about 11:25 GMT on 17/03/20 they have sold
709 of item 353007018944 @ £9.97
448 of item 353007031572 @ £9.96
174 of item 353007049794 @ £9.96
101 of item 353007035728 @ £9.98
46 of item 353007033463 @ £9.95

A grand total £14,729.53. 

As I click refresh - they've sold even more.  The item history shows they've made multiple revisions to the quantity available.  I've reported the auctions hoping they are checked but I suspect it will take a while for eBay to respond and more people will get fleeced.

Attached is a zip file with PDF web page printouts of the pertinent info for the curious.

Personally I'm going to wait until Trade Chemicals have stock again.

[jogri]

I'd suggest that you check your local hardware store if you are in desperate need of a disinfectant, at least in my area people haven't noticed that Acetone and denatured alcohol are still available as paint supplies for cleaning brushes...

[jfiresto]

That would be my suggestion as well.

I picked a random hardware/DIY chain in a random city, B & Q in Leeds, and found plenty, there and nearby, that show stock of methylated spirit.

[wraper]

Price as such is about right if not considering that with free shipping 5L of dangerous goods won't be this cheap.

[jfiresto]

FYI, per EU regulation 162/2013 (I expect it is still followed) methylated spirit in the U.K may be made from either

a base of 90 % by volume ethanol, 9,5 % by volume wood naphtha and 0,5 % by volume crude pyridine, plus for each 10 hectolitres, 3,75 litres mineral naphtha (petroleum oil) and 1,5 grams methyl violet (C.I. No 42555)

or

a 100 hectolitre ethanol base plus 3 litres isopropyl alcohol (IPA), 3 litres methyl ethyl ketone (MEK), 1 gram denatonium benzoate, and (if not exported) an optional dye.

[jogri]

FYI, per EU regulation 162/2013 (I expected it is still followed) methylated spirit in the U.K may be made from either

a base of 90 % by volume ethanol, 9,5 % by volume wood naphtha and 0,5 % by volume crude pyridine, plus for each 10 hectolitres, 3,75 litres mineral naphtha (petroleum oil) and 1,5 grams methyl violet (C.I. No 42555)

or

a 100 hectolitre ethanol base plus 3 litres isopropyl alcohol (IPA), 3 litres methyl ethyl ketone (MEK), 1 gram denatonium benzoate, and (if not exported) an optional dye.

I don't think that anyone still uses the first recipe as it would have an ungodly smell of rotten fish. But if it has denatonium benzoate (aka Bitrex) i would only use it as a surface disinfectant as it could leave an extremely bitter taste in your mouth if you manage to ingest it (better test that before using it...).

[jfiresto]

It has a forthright Wikipedia entry:

Denatonium, usually available as denatonium benzoate ... is the most bitter chemical compound known, with bitterness thresholds of 0.05 ppm for the benzoate and 0.01 ppm for the saccharide.

I respect anyone or anything that it is the most or least there is.

[tooki]

FYI, per EU regulation 162/2013 (I expected it is still followed) methylated spirit in the U.K may be made from either

a base of 90 % by volume ethanol, 9,5 % by volume wood naphtha and 0,5 % by volume crude pyridine, plus for each 10 hectolitres, 3,75 litres mineral naphtha (petroleum oil) and 1,5 grams methyl violet (C.I. No 42555)

or

a 100 hectolitre ethanol base plus 3 litres isopropyl alcohol (IPA), 3 litres methyl ethyl ketone (MEK), 1 gram denatonium benzoate, and (if not exported) an optional dye.

I don't think that anyone still uses the first recipe as it would have an ungodly smell of rotten fish. But if it has denatonium benzoate (aka Bitrex) i would only use it as a surface disinfectant as it could leave an extremely bitter taste in your mouth if you manage to ingest it (better test that before using it...).

Having made this mistake once, I assure you that you absolutely, positively do not want to use Bitrex-denatured alcohol for surface cleaning, either: the Bitrex residue will get everywhere. You will taste bitterness for days and days as your fingers pick up tiny trace amounts of denatonium and eventually transfer it to the vicinity of your mouth. (And I’m someone who washes his hands frequently, and always before eating.)

[richard.cs]

The UK stuff is so far as I know always ethanol based, and I thought it was the first recipe. It certainly has a distinctive smell but I wouldn't describe it as "fishy". I am certain it's not got denatonium in though - I'd have noticed.

Looking up a MSDS for the bottle in my hand it's >=90% ethanol, 1-5% g and 1-5% butanone. Not all ingredients listed.
https://www.bartoline.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/BARTOLINE-Methylated-Spirits-SDS4665.pdf

As an alternative source of alcohol, EU screenwash is generally ethanol or IPA based (Americans seem to use methanol but I understand that's banned here as it's toxic by inhalation). Deduce the alcohol content from the listed undiluted freezing point. It does tend to have denatonium though.

Edit: other UK methylated spirit brands are still methanol-denatured, e.g.:
https://www.fishersci.co.uk/chemicalProductData_uk/wercs?itemCode=M/4450/15
https://www.everbuild.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Everbuild%20Methylated%20Spirit%20V1.pdf

[magic]

A 1 litre bottle of 99% IPA would normally cost around £7.

In Poland that's almost what it costs today during the coronapanic. Normal price was 3x less.

Anyway.  Amongst the eBay listings I spotted a few listings for 5L bottles at only £9.95 or thereabouts. That's too cheap - even when people weren't panic buying. 

That's a more reasonable price, but it's suspicious that the seller isn't trying to exploit the situation so it may be a scam indeed.

[jogri]

In Poland that's almost what it costs today during the coronapanic. Normal price was 3x less.

Well, there is a huge difference between 99% iPA and 99% iPA... If you want industrial/techincal grade stuff that is or isn't 99% pure and probably has some amount of sulfuric acid in it the price is rather low, but pharmacys and chemistry supply stores are going to sell you either CP (chemically pure) grade stuff that was tested to be more than 99% pure or the even more expensive pharmaceutical grade stuff that absolutely has to make sure that it is almost 100% pure.

[magic]

Well, I assumed we are talking technical grade IPA for washing electronics. The eBay price seems just about right for that, under normal conditions.

[SilverSolder]

It is nearly impossible to find IPA in the US either.  I am also waiting for the technical suppliers to get re-stocked.

All this panic buying/ hoarding is getting annoying...

[jfiresto]

The situation is probably little better in Germany. I can still find folks supposedly with IPA in stock, but at five times the price of a month ago.

Purchasing was already becoming hectic in early February, with distributors really trying hard to get things to you as soon as possible: to spare you from wasting time seeking alternative sources. One electronics distributor I have used for some 20 years, shortly after rushing me an order that included some personal protection equipment, removed all but two articles of breathing-related PPE from the catalog. It probably had become a sideshow that was not worth the hassle.

[AndyC_772]

I can't help but feel I picked a bad week to buy a resin-based 3D printer