EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
General => General Technical Chat => Topic started by: tron9000 on June 13, 2018, 08:57:13 am
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I don't know if anyone else has noticed but go a search for 0603 0.1uF caps from either digikey, farnell or RS or whoever you use...
...where have they all gone?!
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https://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/passive-components/capacitors/ceramic-multilayer-capacitors/?redirect-relevancy-data=636F3D3126696E3D4931384E53656172636847656E65726963266C753D656E266D6D3D6D61746368616C6C7061727469616C26706D3D5E2E2A2426706F3D31333326736E3D592673723D2673743D43415443485F414C4C5F44454641554C542673633D592677633D4E4F4E45267573743D30363033203130306E66267374613D30363033203130306E6626&r=f&searchTerm=0603%20100nf
plenty there
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Check the RS lead times. October/December on anything other than noddy quantities.
Also all the 120nF ones are gone now as well.
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plenty there
if you want to wait till october!
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Found some. TME has Yageo ones in half mil quantities: https://www.tme.eu/en/details/cc0603krx7r7104/0603-mlcc-smd-capacitors/yageo/cc0603krx7r7bb104/ (https://www.tme.eu/en/details/cc0603krx7r7104/0603-mlcc-smd-capacitors/yageo/cc0603krx7r7bb104/)
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try maplin :-DD
I only ordered 10 100nf tants the other day with no issue
https://www.rapidonline.com/w-rth-csgp-100nf-10-16vdc-mlcc-ceramic-capacitors-0603-61-5447 (https://www.rapidonline.com/w-rth-csgp-100nf-10-16vdc-mlcc-ceramic-capacitors-0603-61-5447) rapid have a few
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Lot of components get long leadtimes, economy is booming, factories are running 24/7.
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try maplin :-DD
I only ordered 10 100nf tants the other day with no issue
https://www.rapidonline.com/w-rth-csgp-100nf-10-16vdc-mlcc-ceramic-capacitors-0603-61-5447 (https://www.rapidonline.com/w-rth-csgp-100nf-10-16vdc-mlcc-ceramic-capacitors-0603-61-5447) rapid have a few
Need a couple of thousand
Here's the guff from a Farnell Agent
You may be aware that there is currently an unprecedented global demand on certain electronic components. The biggest impacted technologies are SMD, MLCCs and SMD resistors. This is due to the current scale and usage of smart technologies and the automotive industry, and has led to highly extended lead times and allocation on some products we supply.
Our Purchasing and Support teams are working hard with suppliers and manufacturers to establish confirmed supply dates and, where possible, seek alternative products for our customers.
We appreciate your understanding during this period of globally increased demand on our products and hope to reassure you that as a business we are doing all that we can to bring stock in as soon as possible.
Please also be aware that this is a global issue and is not unique to Farnell as a business. We endeavor to provide stock on the promised dates but this may fluctuate
I think I smell BS....this has never been a problem before?
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That smells like someone just paid more than Farnell were willing to.
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Mouser has plenty stock, your have to take a hit on the shipping charge
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You may be aware that there is currently an unprecedented global demand on certain electronic components. The biggest impacted technologies are SMD, MLCCs and SMD resistors. This is due to the current scale and usage of smart technologies and the automotive industry, and has led to highly extended lead times and allocation on some products we supply.
Our Purchasing and Support teams are working hard with suppliers and manufacturers to establish confirmed supply dates and, where possible, seek alternative products for our customers.
We appreciate your understanding during this period of globally increased demand on our products and hope to reassure you that as a business we are doing all that we can to bring stock in as soon as possible.
Please also be aware that this is a global issue and is not unique to Farnell as a business. We endeavor to provide stock on the promised dates but this may fluctuate
I think I smell BS....this has never been a problem before?
I rather smell someone has no clue. There is a thread about this on the forum. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/has-the-world-run-out-of-100nf-caps/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/has-the-world-run-out-of-100nf-caps/)
As well you might use google to find out.
https://www.ttiinc.com/content/ttiinc/en/resources/marketeye/categories/passives/me-zogbi-20180302.html (https://www.ttiinc.com/content/ttiinc/en/resources/marketeye/categories/passives/me-zogbi-20180302.html)
https://ec.kemet.com/mlcc_alternatives (https://ec.kemet.com/mlcc_alternatives)
http://www.advancedmp.com/severe-mlcc-shortage/ (http://www.advancedmp.com/severe-mlcc-shortage/)
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4161711-passive-components-structural-supply-shortage-intensify (https://seekingalpha.com/article/4161711-passive-components-structural-supply-shortage-intensify)
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Mouser has plenty stock, your have to take a hit on the shipping charge
I would not say plenty, the vast majority of part numbers are not available and prices are much higher than a year ago.
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I rather smell someone has no clue.
that's why I'm here....think i'd be asking if i did? thanks for your links.
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further more I've just been talking to an assembly house. They said they were told a "while ago" to stock up on any passives starting with a 1...kind of implies this was forseen?
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As someone who works in the electronics industry, I can tell you there are definitely lead time problems with many otherwise rather common components.
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Yes, I got confirmation from multiple sources for passive component shortage. I have too look up alternative components on a daily basis, because they cannot confirm component sourcing months from now. It is really bad, I am considering to tell my boss, to expect prototypes delayed, because I cannot find stupid things like resistors in the right size. And this will last at least till next year.
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I don't know if anyone else has noticed but go a search for 0603 0.1uF caps from either digikey, farnell or RS or whoever you use...
...where have they all gone?!
I had to buy a reel with 4000 pieces from Farnell a while ago. There wasn't any other alternative (except for buying more than one reel). It has been like this for a couple of months.
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As someone who works in the electronics industry, I can tell you there are definitely lead time problems with many otherwise rather common components.
Include me in this group.
In my corporation, we have a dozen assembly facilities spread across three continents.
I have a good acquaintance just went to the headquarters to discuss electronic component sourcing issues. He told me that many components are either on allocation or have huge lead times.
Part of my job is to find substitutes for these scenarios. And indeed, I've had to use the trick to replace 0.1uF caps with 0.15uF or 0.2uF. Or in less-than-critical circuit applications, I go down to a lower value.
Resistors are facing similar issues. Here I've substituted 5% tolerance devices with 1% tolerance.
The big problem is of course, complex ICs. Our engineering, like most engineering departments, likes to stick with a particular microcontroller brand, as you have a single tool set which everyone is intimately knowledgeable with.
But lately we have diversified to other three microcontroller vendors, for the same reason: many popular microcontroller types, specifically those used on the automotive environment, are on allocation. If you are not Ford, Toyota or VW, most likely you will be on allocation.
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The most annoying part for me is that the capacitors that are left are absolutely appalling in terms of DC bias. I've had to spend multiple hours finding replacement capacitors, and in the end I've typically had to increase the package size |O
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There is a worldwide shortage of MLCC caps as the three largest manufacturers are abandoning certain of their product lines to allocate production to more lucrative series. In essence : they stop making the cheapo stuff to make more lucrative parts (if you still don't get it : parts that are higher spec and go for more $$.)
I just saw a 1uf 16v 0805 with 56 weeks lead time ...
The same is happening for resistors. All that thick film stuff ? tata bye bye ...
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I think I smell BS....this has never been a problem before?
In around 1994/5 it did big time, everyone was talking about the "spot market", big telecom elephants was affected and bought from grand/pa/mom backyard outlet to get hold of components, that time it was mainly semiconductors and some passives i recall.These spot market suppliers made big time money from nothing, the prices for some components was just baffling.
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That was triggered in part by a Sumitomo plant fire in Japan, which provided the semiconductor encapsulation resins for about 2/3 (or something in that ballpark) of the world's semiconductors.
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There is a worldwide shortage of MLCC caps as the three largest manufacturers are abandoning certain of their product lines to allocate production to more lucrative series. In essence : they stop making the cheapo stuff to make more lucrative parts (if you still don't get it : parts that are higher spec and go for more $$.)
I just saw a 1uf 16v 0805 with 56 weeks lead time ...
The same is happening for resistors. All that thick film stuff ? tata bye bye ...
Hmm, but that would mean they give all that business to their competitors instead? or ar you saying there are basically only three manufacturers of MLCC caps?
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North korean neutrino stock market hft system
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https://www.findchips.com/search/0.1uf%200603%20cap (https://www.findchips.com/search/0.1uf%200603%20cap)
https://www.digikey.com/products/en/capacitors/ceramic-capacitors/60?k=0.1uf+0603&k=&pkeyword=0.1uf+0603&pv16=5&FV=ffe0003c&quantity=0&ColumnSort=1000011&page=1&stock=1&nstock=1&pageSize=25 (https://www.digikey.com/products/en/capacitors/ceramic-capacitors/60?k=0.1uf+0603&k=&pkeyword=0.1uf+0603&pv16=5&FV=ffe0003c&quantity=0&ColumnSort=1000011&page=1&stock=1&nstock=1&pageSize=25)
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Part of my job is to find substitutes for these scenarios. And indeed, I've had to use the trick to replace 0.1uF caps with 0.15uF or 0.2uF. Or in less-than-critical circuit applications, I go down to a lower value.
We have had to do the same.
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Hmm, but that would mean they give all that business to their competitors instead? or ar you saying there are basically only three manufacturers of MLCC caps?
The big three have >80% of the market volume ... the small guys don't have the volume to cope up with demand on the lines that are going out. They are fighting for 20% of volume between the 10 of them ...
The big guys just shut down their lines to use them to build much more profitable parts. 0.1uf is NOT a money winner... take it, you can have it. we'll build more lucrative parts. the smartphone market is stagnant and the fabs are headed where there is growth : automotive and energy.
Murata just invest 1 billion$ to convert their lines , and add 20% capacity ) to do automotive/energy only parts.
-snip- Murata Manufacturing plans to invest as much as 100 billion yen ($933 million) through fiscal 2019 to boost capacity for electronic components used in electric vehicles, seeking a fresh growth driver as the smartphone market plateaus.
The Japanese company will spend between 50 billion and 100 billion yen to expand ceramic capacitor production facilities in the western Japanese prefecture of Shimane and outside the Philippine capital of Manila. It aims to increase capacity by 20% with a focus on parts for electric vehicles. This would represent one of Murata's largest-ever investments in capacitors.
Ceramic capacitors are used in autos to adjust electrical signals from key parts such as motors and inverters and ensure they function properly. Automotive capacitors require greater durability than those found in smartphones. The nascent autonomous-driving field is expected to bolster demand.-/snip-
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https://www.findchips.com/search/0.1uf%200603%20cap (https://www.findchips.com/search/0.1uf%200603%20cap)
https://www.digikey.com/products/en/capacitors/ceramic-capacitors/60?k=0.1uf+0603&k=&pkeyword=0.1uf+0603&pv16=5&FV=ffe0003c&quantity=0&ColumnSort=1000011&page=1&stock=1&nstock=1&pageSize=25 (https://www.digikey.com/products/en/capacitors/ceramic-capacitors/60?k=0.1uf+0603&k=&pkeyword=0.1uf+0603&pv16=5&FV=ffe0003c&quantity=0&ColumnSort=1000011&page=1&stock=1&nstock=1&pageSize=25)
Trust me this 40K will disappear in about a minute. I told our supply chain manager to put half a million in our stock, from the 0402. And respinning the PCB for a different size is either 15K EUR in certifications, or breaking the law.
And I work at a relatively small company.
And the 0603 was some 20 EUR/reel not so long ago.
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Starting to think I should start brokering components. Better than fucking around in the commodities and currency markets.
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Naaaaah most components are only "good" for one or two years after which decent companies won't touch them.
Besides, large companies have their fixed quotums set for each year, deals are made a year in advance and unless some product becomes unexpectedly popular they can and will produce what they planned to produce. So who to sell the old stock to :-//
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https://www.findchips.com/search/0.1uf%200603%20cap (https://www.findchips.com/search/0.1uf%200603%20cap)
https://www.digikey.com/products/en/capacitors/ceramic-capacitors/60?k=0.1uf+0603&k=&pkeyword=0.1uf+0603&pv16=5&FV=ffe0003c&quantity=0&ColumnSort=1000011&page=1&stock=1&nstock=1&pageSize=25 (https://www.digikey.com/products/en/capacitors/ceramic-capacitors/60?k=0.1uf+0603&k=&pkeyword=0.1uf+0603&pv16=5&FV=ffe0003c&quantity=0&ColumnSort=1000011&page=1&stock=1&nstock=1&pageSize=25)
Trust me this 40K will disappear in about a minute. I told our supply chain manager to put half a million in our stock, from the 0402. And respinning the PCB for a different size is either 15K EUR in certifications, or breaking the law.
And I work at a relatively small company.
And the 0603 was some 20 EUR/reel not so long ago.
OK,
https://www.avnet.com/shop/us/products/murata/grm033r61a104ke15d-3074457345627045821/ (https://www.avnet.com/shop/us/products/murata/grm033r61a104ke15d-3074457345627045821/)
https://www.ttiinc.com/content/ttiinc/en/apps/part-search.html?searchTerms=100nf%201608&inStock=&rohsCompliant=&leadFree=&containsLead=&sortAscending=false&sortx=P_TTIWebATS&x=true (https://www.ttiinc.com/content/ttiinc/en/apps/part-search.html?searchTerms=100nf%201608&inStock=&rohsCompliant=&leadFree=&containsLead=&sortAscending=false&sortx=P_TTIWebATS&x=true)
Digikey has more than 40000, that is just the limit on their part selector on their web page. You just need to ask for more.
However, price is high and places where they list above 10 million in quantity, it's on order, not in stock:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/KEMET/C0603C104M5RACTU?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs0AnBnWHyRQG8EQLxJcrqdghOfJCcQoTg%3d (https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/KEMET/C0603C104M5RACTU?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs0AnBnWHyRQG8EQLxJcrqdghOfJCcQoTg%3d)
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Most of our pcb-suppliers told is about the problem months ago and they massivly stocked up so they don't run out of caps.
Let's see how long there stock lasts. :popcorn:
I'm realy suprised that the cga-series from TDK is actualy aviable. I think these are quite decent caps.
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The most annoying part for me is that the capacitors that are left are absolutely appalling in terms of DC bias. I've had to spend multiple hours finding replacement capacitors, and in the end I've typically had to increase the package size |O
Increasing in package size is not a bad thing in some respects: https://pdfserv.maximintegrated.com/en/an/TUT5527.pdf (https://pdfserv.maximintegrated.com/en/an/TUT5527.pdf)
https://www.findchips.com/search/0.1uf%200603%20cap (https://www.findchips.com/search/0.1uf%200603%20cap)
https://www.digikey.com/products/en/capacitors/ceramic-capacitors/60?k=0.1uf+0603&k=&pkeyword=0.1uf+0603&pv16=5&FV=ffe0003c&quantity=0&ColumnSort=1000011&page=1&stock=1&nstock=1&pageSize=25 (https://www.digikey.com/products/en/capacitors/ceramic-capacitors/60?k=0.1uf+0603&k=&pkeyword=0.1uf+0603&pv16=5&FV=ffe0003c&quantity=0&ColumnSort=1000011&page=1&stock=1&nstock=1&pageSize=25)
Trust me this 40K will disappear in about a minute.
Still there! PO Being Raised as we speak! They didn't come up when I searched Digikey.... :-//
Anyway I've had to order some 150nF from closer suppliers as well cos even 120nF are taking a hit.
I think I smell BS....this has never been a problem before?
In around 1994/5 it did big time, everyone was talking about the "spot market", big telecom elephants was affected and bought from grand/pa/mom backyard outlet to get hold of components, that time it was mainly semiconductors and some passives i recall.These spot market suppliers made big time money from nothing, the prices for some components was just baffling.
Remember when Fukushima happened? There was a little lull in stock I remember, but nothing this bad. It recovered very quickly.
This all seem very odd, the fact that there are some articles I've read that this was forecast, why has production not been ramped up prior? Guy I work with (bit of a doom merchant) said its all going into weapons and bombs for some sort of impending war! unlikely....I hope!
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further more I've just been talking to an assembly house. They said they were told a "while ago" to stock up on any passives starting with a 1...kind of implies this was forseen?
Self fulfilling prediction?
Is 'smart tech' production really exploding, or are large companies just trying to buy twice their usual consumption to stock up?
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Guy I work with (bit of a doom merchant) said its all going into weapons and bombs for some sort of impending war! unlikely....I hope!
Have you seen the topic with mlcc microcracks, for some reason I do not think they will put those in critical defense applications such as weapons and bombs, at least I hope they don't :o
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They do actually :D
Only has to work once ;)
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Guy I work with (bit of a doom merchant) said its all going into weapons and bombs for some sort of impending war! unlikely....I hope!
Have you seen the topic with mlcc microcracks, for some reason I do not think they will put those in critical defense applications such as weapons and bombs, at least I hope they don't :o
Maybe they use the ones with flexible termination.
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They do actually :D
Only has to work once ;)
....In the right place ;D
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No C but R,
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/(de)-fs-30x-0603-resistor-kit/?action=dlattach;attach=499826;image)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/(de)-fs-30x-0603-resistor-kit/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/buysellwanted/(de)-fs-30x-0603-resistor-kit/)
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On my last assembly order, I specified a 0.1uF cap in stock at Digikey/Mouser. But I also specified that substitution was ok, because every assembler will have decoupling caps on hand, and my order was not in the 10K+ range. I also gave them a pretty wide range of acceptable capacitance, voltage, tolerance, and temp coefficient. They sent me an alternate part number for my approval, which I'm glad I looked at. They tried to slide me a 0.015uF part. No, that was not in my range. they came back with another part number which had the max specified capacitance I allowed for. They sure are hoarding their 0.1uF caps. I didn't know there was anything magical about that number other than familiarilty.
I've had to use the trick to replace 0.1uF caps with 0.15uF or 0.2uF. Or in less-than-critical circuit applications, I go down to a lower value.
The main thing I would be concerned with is ESR. Going higher in value isn't necessarily better than lower, is it? Everything I've read has suggested 0.1uF is a ballpark figure for generic decoupling. A bit higher or lower should be ok in most instances?
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Exactly, there is nothing magical about 0.1 uF, other than familiarity.
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(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/iannielli-legend/images/6/6e/Cookie_monster.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150918140937)
Mhhhhmmm. Cookies ceramic caps. Munch Munch!
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better use a higher value because of capacitance drop under DC, if you target specific capacitance value. For decoupling it is just a generic ballpark value. To know what value works better for Your design you need to put a spectrum analyzer on the power bus and try different values to see what supresses the noise the best. You may have spurs or noise shaped in a particular frequency band so 0.1 may or may not work well. Following this methodology I used decoupling caps of 0.1 , 0.01. 1000pf, 100pf and 10pf at different points on the power bus depending on what was going on. Also physical size of the capacitor makes a difference how well it works for the purpose.
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That was triggered in part by a Sumitomo plant fire in Japan, which provided the semiconductor encapsulation resins for about 2/3 (or something in that ballpark) of the world's semiconductors.
Which lead to the fast development of many smaller chip packages that use very little encapsulation resins.
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Queue photoshoped image of rich guy in a swimming pool full of 10 billion 0201 100nf caps.