Why are UPS power supplies such junk?

[peter-h]

In the countryside, a UPS is a must.

I find they last about 2 years. Not the batteries - they have a poor life probably because they are inside a warm box. The electronics just pack up. Often it won't charge the batteries. Or some other fault.

APC are the worst. EATON slightly better. Powerware maybe better on average. I have one huge unit, must be 2000VA, that's been running for about 15 years. The small ones last maybe 3 years.

The batteries in them tend to be either no-name or "Yuasa" but the Yuasa-labelled ones must be fake because the cost of real Yuasa ones is close to the cost of the UPS

Compared with the above, most IT hardware lasts for many years, especially when left on 24/7. I have a programming station PC here, running DOS 6.22, running since 1995 (on a Data I/O Chiplab programming station). Hard disk, too!

[NiHaoMike]

Look for name brand "inverter/chargers" if you want something that lasts.

[nctnico]

APC, Powerware and Eaton are THE name brands. APC and Powerware even more compared to Eaton. The problem is that these brands cut so many corners to drive prices down, their low-end products are rather crappy.

[coppice]

In most of the UK's countryside a UPS is not a necessity. Maybe you should complain more about your power, and get it sorted out. Standards may be falling, but this isn't the US, where frequent power cuts outside big cities seem to be expected.

I don't know of any brands of UPS I would consider especially great, but brands like APC aren't as bad as you are describing them. Do you actually need a better UPS, or a power analyser to see what's up with your mains supply?

[bdunham7]

Look at the price point of small, cheap UPS units.  The cheapest one at my local MicroCenter (CyberPower, not a total no-name) is $54.99 all-in with a 3-year warranty and some lame equipment insurance policy.  Not much margin for rich BOM there, is there?  I have older, larger APC units that have been working for decades.

[nctnico]

The main problem with APC is that their UPSses cook the batteries by having the float voltage way too high (this has been an APC problem for decades). If you mod these to a lower float voltage, the batteries should last a long time.

[BrianHG]

Some of these power banks offer UPS functionality.
They use LiFePO4 and their battery charging circuitry if far superior compared to the old PC UPS garbage.
They are also pure sine wave...
Larger versions at and above 2kw exist.
However, they do not have the auto-PC shut down features.  (Though some do have network battery monitoring through WiFi, so I may be wrong...)

[peter-h]

Do you actually need a better UPS, or a power analyser to see what's up with your mains supply?

A proper "line interactive" UPS should not care.
Anyway, the problem is widespread in Sussex. Three 20 sec dropouts daily for last few days.

Maybe you should complain more about your power, and get it sorted out.

Wishful thinking

If you mod these to a lower float voltage, the batteries should last a long time.

The mod would be interesting, although I won't touch APC again.

[thm_w]

I've never seen the actual UPS itself fail, its always the batteries. The large APCs are built like tanks. Cheap to buy or find in the scrap heap since the OEM batteries are often very expensive, but easy enough to replace with your own.

Do you have a model number or link? I suppose you are talking about the cheap $50 units?

[bdunham7]

The main problem with APC is that their UPSses cook the batteries by having the float voltage way too high (this has been an APC problem for decades). If you mod these to a lower float voltage, the batteries should last a long time.

I've actually done that and my first test case just had its batteries fail after less than 3 years. 

[Smokey]

I had a ups switch-over contactor wear out.  That was after about 8 years or so.  The battery measured fine, but every month or so the contactor wouldnt close and that would cut out power to all the stuff.  Reset it and it would chug along for about another month until it happened again.  One of these days I'll replace that contactor.

[Simmed]

i found some interesting research article about unplanned outages
UPS failure is #1 on this chart

on the datasheet, most UPS can only operate up to 40C

[coppice]

i found some interesting research article about unplanned outages
UPS failure is 1 of the causes (a big 1)
from 2010 to 2016 there maybe an improvement of 14%
but it is still at the top

on the datasheet, most UPS can only operate up to 40C

That will depend very much on your location. In many big cities almost all power outages will be due to the UPS, or something in the installation's own wiring. In some rural locations actual power cuts are so common that even failures of an unreliable model of UPS will be a small percentage of the total.

[nctnico]

i found some interesting research article about unplanned outages
UPS failure is #1 on this chart

That is my experience as well. I have had various UPSses in a distant past and at some point it dawned to me that most outages where caused by the UPS. Either by a problem or needing maintenance. Mains power is very reliable over here. So IMHO a UPS is only worth the hassle if you need to cope with regular power outages. If the only thing that needs to keep running is a computer, using a laptop is probably the easiest route by far.

[coppice]

i found some interesting research article about unplanned outages
UPS failure is #1 on this chart

That is my experience as well. I have had various UPSses in a distant past and at some point it dawned to me that most outages where caused by the UPS. Either by a problem or needing maintenance. Mains power is very reliable over here. So IMHO a UPS is only worth the hassle if you need to cope with regular power outages. If the only thing that needs to keep running is a computer, using a laptop is probably the easiest route by far.

For many people with a very reliable public power supply their greatest risk of a failure of power to key equipment is their own internal wiring not being adequately protected against disturbance.

[wraper]

EATON slightly better. Powerware maybe better on average.

They are one and the same, Eaton acquired Powerware quite a while ago. I'd say Riello with external battery are probably the best if used in rooms with people around.

The batteries in them tend to be either no-name or "Yuasa" but the Yuasa-labelled ones must be fake because the cost of real Yuasa ones is close to the cost of the UPS

If you see them overpriced in retail, it does not mean they actually cost that much. If by no-name you mean CSB, they're very far from no-name and are about on par with Yuasa and Panasonic.
On other hand APC really likes to use shit batteries.

[thm_w]

i found some interesting research article about unplanned outages
UPS failure is #1 on this chart

on the datasheet, most UPS can only operate up to 40C

Yes 0 to 40C ambient, seems like a bit of a cop out, though inside a house the temperature would usually be 15-30C. In a data center the temperature will be locked at ~25C.

Don't forget also that the lead acid batteries they use degrade massively at high temperature. Compared to 20C at 40C the lifespan of the battery is down to ~25%.

[coppice]

Some of these power banks offer UPS functionality.
They use LiFePO4 and their battery charging circuitry if far superior compared to the old PC UPS garbage.
They are also pure sine wave...
Larger versions at and above 2kw exist.
However, they do not have the auto-PC shut down features.  (Though some do have network battery monitoring through WiFi, so I may be wrong...)

Watch out for that UPS functionality. Many of those products don't quite give a smooth cut-over, and are honest enough to document that when you read the details.

With the falling prices of battery and inverter products for home solar, and home time shifting of consumption (i.e. charging batteries at night on cheap grid power, and use it during the following day, with or without solar panels in the mix) becoming widely available will these displace specific UPS products from all but the smallest requirements?

[Jackster]

I have a few APC UPS units at work due to us being out in the countryside.
The power was going out once a week at night earlier in the year and we are only 9 miles away from the city where I live and have only had a single 10 min power outage in the last 8 years.

Not had an issue with the APC units in the 3-4 years I have had them. Got a mix of 1600VA and 2200VA units powering IT equipment and Pick and Place machines.
They do run warm. I guess that is because they are always ready to go?
https://www.se.com/uk/en/product/BX2200MI/apc-backups-2200va-tower-230v-6x-iec-c13-outlets-avr/

Replacement batteries are £50-60 from Amazon.


Sounds like OP needs one of those whole house battery storage units that the solar panel installers all use. They have modes to act as a UPS (charge from grid) as well as a solar battery.

[thm_w]

They do run warm. I guess that is because they are always ready to go?

Partly because they are dumping energy into the battery which just becomes heat, float charge.
Then if its an "Online" or double conversion UPS, its converting the input to DC then back to AC which results in a lot of losses.
If its "line interactive" it shouldn't use much power, I think, unless your voltage is too high or low then it will be running to adjust it into spec.

[peter-h]

I don't buy the £50 UPSs, no. They are crap.

What surprises me is the lack of lithium battery units. With a proper charger circuit they should last a very long time. I've been designing charging circuits since about 1980, since the days of NICD and NIMH cells, even using temp sensors on them to terminate a fast charge, etc. Lithiums need smarter charging. But UPSs seem to have crap charging circuits.

We also have a big expensive Riello one which is still running, so that is two units which have worked, while some 20 have been binned in past 15-20 years.

Lately I've been getting these
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00CTFTM1C
and they kill batteries in 2 years pretty reliably, but so far only 1 or 2 have failed in the circuit.

[coppice]

What surprises me is the lack of lithium battery units. With a proper charger circuit they should last a very long time. I've been designing charging circuits since about 1980, since the days of NICD and NIMH cells, even using temp sensors on them to terminate a fast charge, etc. Lithiums need smarter charging. But UPSs seem to have crap charging circuits.

The UPS business seems fixated with lead acid batteries. I can't see the solar people staying out of this forever, and they are experienced in making reliable inverters and chargers that treat LiFePO4 batteries with kid gloves.

Why are these UPSes killing batteries in as little as 2 years? Even with the garbage charging schemes in 1970s cars, a lead acid battery with a 4 year warranty, that lasted maybe 5 years, was pretty normal.

[Simmed]

I don't buy the £50 UPSs, no. They are crap.

What surprises me is the lack of lithium battery units.

there are lithium units
they catch fire and boom

1) 8 May 2024 — A Li-ion battery fire at a colocation data center in South Korea had devastating consequences in October 2022. The outage affected millions ...
2) 10 Sept 2024 — Chinese giant claims lithium batteries exploded, now one server hall is waterlogged. icon Simon Sharwood. Tue 10 Sep 2024 // 23:10 UTC.

[thm_w]

there are lithium units
they catch fire and boom

No lifepo4 in a metal case is very safe, they are sold just expensive: https://www.cdw.ca/product/tripp-lite-1500va-1440w-ups-smart-lithium-ion-sine-wave-lcd/5659722

DIY yourself for a lower cost.

[BrianHG]

there are lithium units
they catch fire and boom

No lifepo4 in a metal case is very safe, they are sold just expensive: https://www.cdw.ca/product/tripp-lite-1500va-1440w-ups-smart-lithium-ion-sine-wave-lcd/5659722

DIY yourself for a lower cost.

Unless that has a tiny battery, that is a reasonable price, especially considering the weak Canadian dollar if you are purchasing abroad...