Why are Western companies getting offline power supplies designed in China?

[ocset]

Governments don't run companies in any capitalistic system.  Mostly because a) they don't know how and b) the employees don't take risks, it upsets their promotion opportunities.

There are many examples of great government run companies...eg Transport for London (TfL), the French rail network, the German rail network, Most Chinese companies.

Harvard Technology  is a great British  lighting company that manufactures all of its products in UK. 
https://www.harvardtechnology.com/
Every single piece of every  single product that they have is manufactured in UK. This shows that manufacturing electronics in UK is just as cheap as anywhere else in the world, else they wouldn’t  do it. The truth is, that although offshore manufacture used to be cheaper, its price has been creeping higher and higher over the years. And now, if you are in the West,  its not cheaper to manufacture overseas any more….however, if your volumes are huge, then you will struggle to find the capacity in the West…but this is only because we in the West stupidly got rid of our manufacturing capacity so that we could get all our manufacturing done overseas………now they’ve raised their prices (which all along should have been  totally predictable)  and we’re stuffed!
As you know, the Far East is not a Charity manufacturer for the West……the Far Eastern manufacturers charge the West as much as they possibly can charge. As the Far Eastern manufacturers realise that the West has denuded itself of its manufacturing capability, they therefore, and quite understandably, are putting up their prices big time.
Another point is that a lot of Western investors won’t tolerate a British (Western)  Manufacturing operation because  although it makes money, it doesn’t make much money. This is why Western Governments must take up the mantle and take on Government run manufacturing of electronics in UK….Western Private investors are just not interested unless they can be dripping in mega-wealth within a short space of time.
When Western Government run  operations go wrong, it is inevitably because greedy  western private companies leach the government of their money…….this is what we have to tackle.
There is a part-government funded  company in the west called Commsaudit.com
https://www.commsaudit.com/
…..this company gets hired by the British Government to   build duplicates of RF equipment ordered by the British MOD……Commsaudit report their findings to the British Government , and state whether  or not the British Government has been overcharged for the RF equipment…..if the British Government gets overcharged…the MOD gets the money back from the private  RF consultancies.

[vk6zgo]

So you want something similar to this paid by UK tax payers money ?

Of course believe you understand this fully, say something like this from a person's POV that has high interest and passionate about making a coffee pot like you on power electronics. 

Air Force paid $1,280 apiece for coffee cups.

In fairness, it isn't your everyday K-Mart  "cup" .

It is closer in concept to an electric kettle, needs to operate off the power supplies readily available on Military aircraft, needs to be leakproof (do you want  hot coffee spilt all over sensitive equipment in the event of a vigorous evasive manoeuvre?).

On top of that, this is not going to be a mass market, so not much economies of scale, security concerns require it to be made in the USA, all of which  push up the price.

In general, flight rated stuff, even in the commercial aviation industry, is fiendishly expensive compared to consumer items.

[SiliconWizard]

Governments don't run companies in any capitalistic system.  Mostly because a) they don't know how and b) the employees don't take risks, it upsets their promotion opportunities.

There are many examples of great government run companies...eg Transport for London (TfL), the French rail network, the German rail network, Most Chinese companies.

I would beg to slightly differ. I don't know much about chinese companies, but the two others you mentioned... I wouldn't call them well run companies. Those are companies that have offered good service to their users, so in that sense they are "working right", but they have also made erratic investments and choices in the last 20 to 30 years which have gotten them in huge debts. People running those public companies tend to take minimal risks for themselves, and maximal risks on the tax payers' shoulders.

Chinese companies - as I said, I don't know a lot about them, but I know China is a communist country. You can't really compare them with our public companies IMO.

[ocset]

China claims to be, which we all know it's not. How can a communist country have not one, but two of the world's largest stock exchanges?

..Isn't  it just a facade?....I thought that was just a way of bringing in foreign investment to China. I must admit ,  many years ago, i had a couple of shares in a Chinese oil company, and i'm from the West.

I would beg to slightly differ. I don't know much about chinese companies, but the two others you mentioned... I wouldn't call them well run companies. Those are companies that have offered good service to their users, so in that sense they are "working right", but they have also made erratic investments and choices in the last 20 to 30 years which have gotten them in huge debts. People running those public companies tend to take minimal risks for themselves, and maximal risks on the tax payers' shoulders.

...Thanks, yes, thats why we need companies like commsaudit.com...the one i mentioned  just a couple of posts previous to this (#153)......a way of moderating the behaviour so we dont get these mess-ups

[ocset]

The Chinese, as discussed and as we know, are not a  Charity Manufacturer to the West, neither are the Chinese doing anything wrong, though i hear stories of Chinese workers starving, on which i await confirmation.  The Chinese charge the West as much as they possibly can for manufacture and design services……..typically the Chinese pitch the price just below what a British manufacturer would do it for.  They will keep dropping the price until the orders come through….Because the more of the West’s manufacture industry that can be stagnated by price undercutting, the more western manufacture industry dies off……then  in turn, the more the Chinese can charge the West for manufacture services. The Chinese are having a field day in UK…because self-centred UK industrialists will do anything to  pay any lesser amount of money on manufacturing. And there is massive die-off of UK manufacturing. We in UK are storing up a nightmare for ourselves.
What private UK “entrepreneurs” are now seeing,  is that  over the years there has been a steady increase of the cost of Far Eastern Manufacture to UK…….the trapdoor is almost shut on the UK…..nearly there……nearly done for.

[rstofer]

The Chinese are playing the game the same way any other company would play.  Start at a low-ball price to get orders and build a client base.  Then gradually raise the prices until profitable.  Along the way, competition will drop out early and not survive long enough to see the eventual price increases.

EVERY company would do the same thing if they were capable of surviving long enough at the reduced price points.  Government subsidies help and while the EU prohibits such subsidies, the Chinese can do anything they want.  It's the long game that's important to the Chinese.

A big concern of the EU with BREXIT is the UK government getting back into subsidies and undercutting EU prices to the detriment of Germany.  Just the idea that the UK will reduce tax rates scares the EU, not to mention the tax haven known as Gibraltar.  It's going to be very interesting come March 30th, 2019.  Unless PM May gives away the store...  That's why the EU wants 'alignment'.  And the UK shouldn't give it to them!

[ebastler]

A big concern of the EU with BREXIT is the UK government getting back into subsidies and undercutting EU prices to the detriment of Germany.  Just the idea that the UK will reduce tax rates scares the EU, not to mention the tax haven known as Gibraltar.  It's going to be very interesting come March 30th, 2019.  Unless PM May gives away the store...  That's why the EU wants 'alignment'.  And the UK shouldn't give it to them!

The options for the UK seem straightforward enough:

(a) "Align", i.e. continue play by the EU rules, and get access to the common market without import duties etc. Or
(b) do whatever you want, and pay import duties and tariffs when selling into the EU.

I'm sure Mrs. May will be all ears if you can recommend a third path. 

[rstofer]

A big concern of the EU with BREXIT is the UK government getting back into subsidies and undercutting EU prices to the detriment of Germany.  Just the idea that the UK will reduce tax rates scares the EU, not to mention the tax haven known as Gibraltar.  It's going to be very interesting come March 30th, 2019.  Unless PM May gives away the store...  That's why the EU wants 'alignment'.  And the UK shouldn't give it to them!

The options for the UK seem straightforward enough:

(a) "Align", i.e. continue play by the EU rules, and get access to the common market without import duties etc. Or
(b) do whatever you want, and pay import duties and tariffs when selling into the EU.

I'm sure Mrs. May will be all ears if you can recommend a third path. 

In gross terms, there probably isn't a 3rd path.  You're either a EU subject or you're not.  You're inside or you're outside.  You accept the ECJ or you don't.

Nevertheless, outside doesn't have to be a train wreck even though the EU is pushing in that direction.  They can settle on trade issues like tariffs and make them as low or high as they want.  They would be bilateral in any event.  Maybe WTO rules would work well.  The issues on the table aren't even trade, they're things like the Irish Border (Unsolvable, admit it and move on! See how it looks the day after.), Galileo, EU/NATO, free movement, open borders and a host of other things (retirees, among them).

As I see it, none of the issues will ever be resolved to the satisfaction of the EU short of the UK becoming a non-voting subject.  So, run out the clock and see what's really important beginning on the 30th of March 2019.  Things will be a lot more clear when trucks block up the tunnel, ferries have no place to dock and the UK enforces restrictions on fishing in their waters.  Lack of landing rights might suddenly get important to Italy and Spain, maybe even France.  Politicians' focus will sharpen considerably on March 30.  Ryanair might as well close up shop!

Other countries, even the US, trade with the EU every day without signing on to the ECJ.  Sure, there are tariffs but those are arbitrary and often capricious.  Why does Germany have a higher tariff on US cars than the US has on German cars?  Good question!  Maybe that's why we're arguing about it.

Just run out the clock!  And quit groveling, it's unseemly!

Paul Simon said it best:  "Just slip out the back, Jack!"