Author Topic: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?  (Read 3890 times)

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Offline VK3DRB

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Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« on: July 20, 2019, 03:44:11 am »
My wife mentioned at her work that I had just booked two seats for us to visit the Melbourne IMAX theatre to see the acclaimed Apollo 11 documentary. She works at a major robotics/sensors/controls/power company. Her colleagues, many of them younger engineers and technicians, thought nothing of it and one asked why would anyone bother seeing a documentary on Apollo 11? My wife was somewhat taken back by lack of excitement for man's greatest technical achievement, and possibly the greatest adventure in the history of the human race. She was somewhat surprised and even disappointed, as I was to hear it.

Why the lack of interest? Or have you have found young people are just as enthusiastic in his historic anniversary on Apollo 11?

Maybe a lack of interest is due to:
1. The WOW! factor is gone in many young people because they have been desensitised by the plethora of great innovations in their lifetime.
2. Fewer engineers today have genuine deep interest in technology, over just having a job to pay the bills.
3. They were not alive at the time man landed on the moon, so they do not understand how incredible the achievement was to go to the moon in light of relatively primitive technology. They would not understand what is it like to not have a calculator, let alone a computer.
4. They have never worked with vintage computers and have no experience regarding the difficulty of optimising algorthims and cutting code to fit in tiny program storage.
5. They are more interested in Facebook, Twitter, mobile phones, reality TV and cooking shows.
 
My bet is the IMAX will be filled with baby boomers, except for a few from the X generation, very few from the Y generation and almost no post-millennials. I will report what I see. I may be wrong!

I write this as I am spending most of the weekend tuned to this...https://apolloinrealtime.org/11/ (Fantastic website).
 

Online blueskull

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2019, 04:01:07 am »
Generally young people are not interested in STEM as a whole, not just Apollo 11.

For whatever reason, ambitious kids nowadays are more interested in "how to be successful", "how to be famous" and "how to invest" and their ilks, while other kids are into pop stars and esports.

Lipstick economy.
 

Offline Dubbie

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2019, 04:08:45 am »
I dunno our young programmer at work is obsessed with rockets like me. We watch most launches and have good understanding of all the tech. I guess that when it comes to technical interest, it was always only a small subset of people.
 

Offline lordvader88

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2019, 04:13:17 am »
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« Last Edit: July 27, 2019, 08:27:57 pm by Simon »
 

Offline wilfred

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2019, 04:15:44 am »
What's changed is not "young" people. It is the "young" people who got old that have changed. I firmly believe that any analysis that confirms one generation is fundamentally different to another is wrong.
 
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Offline lordvader88

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2019, 04:20:02 am »
I think Dr. Robert Zubrin, Founder and President of the Mars Society, has some nice ideas for mining the moon, and using it to go to Mars, etc
 

Online blueskull

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2019, 04:33:52 am »
What's changed is not "young" people. It is the "young" people who got old that have changed. I firmly believe that any analysis that confirms one generation is fundamentally different to another is wrong.

I believe people change from generation to generation, and that's actually a good sign.

People in the past from both sides HAVE to be keen on space technology to fight the space competition, and people nowadays have the luxury of living in a slower and more peaceful pace.

20 years ago Chinese kids were educated science and engineering only because we need engineers to propel our country.

When I was a kid we were taught religious and social science are all bad and only natural science provable by hard cold math is good.

Nowadays we can afford kids to pursue arts, music, esports among many other diversified fields.

The minority engineering bright minds will pop out one way or another, but the others are given more freedom to pursue what they truly love.

Call it lipstick economy or whatever, it's a sign that people actually can live without worries and pursue their true passion.
 

Offline schmitt trigger

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2019, 04:43:30 am »

Maybe a lack of interest is due to:
1. The WOW! factor is gone in many young people because they have been desensitised by the plethora of great innovations in their lifetime.
2. Fewer engineers today have genuine deep interest in technology, over just having a job to pay the bills.
3. They were not alive at the time man landed on the moon, so they do not understand how incredible the achievement was to go to the moon in light of relatively primitive technology. They would not understand what is it like to not have a calculator, let alone a computer.
4. They have never worked with vintage computers and have no experience regarding the difficulty of optimising algorthims and cutting code to fit in tiny program storage.
5. They are more interested in Facebook, Twitter, mobile phones, reality TV and cooking shows.
 

I write this as I am spending most of the weekend tuned to this...https://apolloinrealtime.org/11/ (Fantastic website).

All of the above.

I have mentioned previously that after I saw the moon landing, at my tender 13 years of age, I decided to become an engineer.

Nowadays younger people are jaded to technical miracles. The fact that the older Iphone I am holding in my hand is significantly more powerful than Apollo’s AGC and instrumentation panel, simply does not longer register on their brains.

But it is similar to us, when we are told about the great sailors who circumnavigated the unknown earth on wind power alone and the most rudimentary navigation aids. No refrigeration to maintain the food fresh. Unknown and deadly diseases.
We cannot comprehend the magnitude of their achievements when we are flying over the vast oceans at 40,000 ft and 600 mph, and all we do is to complain that the food service was mediocre.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 04:45:55 am by schmitt trigger »
 

Offline Dubbie

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2019, 04:50:25 am »
Maybe they saw the video of the A11 crew pretending to be 1/2 way to the moon, by placing a thing over the window looking at the Earth, and making it look like the Earth is the size of a marble, and the rest of the window is blacked out.

Like it or not, Bart Sibrel really did release the footage of the A11 crew faking images, so what's NASA'a excuse ?

I really wish people would go walk on the Moon, that would be cool.

I think you are in the wrong forum. I think infowars forum is probably better positioned to cater for your mental disabilities.
 
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Offline lordvader88

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2019, 04:56:20 am »
No I think most people just except what they are told, and don't think enough past that

I wish people were taught science is cool. Instead they are brainwashed by Hollywood into loving 'gangsta rap', so no wonder they don't care about the really cool stuff people have actually done in space, like going to the moon Titan.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 05:00:56 am by lordvader88 »
 

Offline wilfred

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2019, 04:59:54 am »

20 years ago Chinese kids were educated science and engineering only because we need engineers to propel our country.

When I was a kid we were taught religious and social science are all bad and only natural science provable by hard cold math is good.

Nowadays we can afford kids to pursue arts, music, esports among many other diversified fields.

The minority engineering bright minds will pop out one way or another, but the others are given more freedom to pursue what they truly love.



So you're actually saying that the subjects kids in China are taught has changed, the wealth of society in China has changed and the freedom to pursue diverse interests has changed. I still maintain stripped of all cultural and societal advancements kids have not changed for, well ever.

When the early Greeks wrote plays about people and relationships and tragedies they wrote about people in their society thousands of years ago. Today we can read and watch those plays and instantly recognise them as applicable just as strongly today. Same goes for Shakespeare. Knowledge, technology, wealth and culture can change but not people. The only thing we can learn from history is that how people reacted to a situation in the past is an accurate indication to how they will react in the future. That is something you can bet on. That's why there was World War 2, a second Gulf war and will soon be a third.
 

Online blueskull

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2019, 05:03:43 am »
So you're actually saying that the subjects kids in China are taught has changed, the wealth of society in China has changed and the freedom to pursue diverse interests has changed.

The public school subjects remain the same, but the competition from exam is less fierce, so kids compete in different ways, such as learning something else (gaining extra skills rather than studying textbooks) which can be directed by their own interest.
 

Offline lordvader88

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2019, 05:16:13 am »
NOTE: This message has been deleted by the forum moderator Simon for being against the forum rules and/or at the discretion of the moderator as being in the best interests of the forum community and the nature of the thread.
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« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 12:59:02 pm by Simon »
 

Online blueskull

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2019, 05:20:39 am »
In China kids are taught human's have not yet been on the Moon in person. Good on them for not repeating the lies of Operation PaperClip Nazi's that ran NASA

Canada really shouldn't have legalize weed |O.
 
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Offline magic

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2019, 05:59:57 am »
They shouldn't have legalized independent thinking :P

Question everything... except for what we tell you. :-DD

Hardly surprising America is the source of all those dumb conspiracy theories.
 

Offline techman-001

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2019, 07:02:02 am »
My wife mentioned at her work that I had just booked two seats for us to visit the Melbourne IMAX theatre to see the acclaimed Apollo 11 documentary. She works at a major robotics/sensors/controls/power company. Her colleagues, many of them younger engineers and technicians, thought nothing of it and one asked why would anyone bother seeing a documentary on Apollo 11? My wife was somewhat taken back by lack of excitement for man's greatest technical achievement, and possibly the greatest adventure in the history of the human race. She was somewhat surprised and even disappointed, as I was to hear it.

Why the lack of interest? Or have you have found young people are just as enthusiastic in his historic anniversary on Apollo 11?

Maybe a lack of interest is due to:
1. The WOW! factor is gone in many young people because they have been desensitised by the plethora of great innovations in their lifetime.
2. Fewer engineers today have genuine deep interest in technology, over just having a job to pay the bills.
3. They were not alive at the time man landed on the moon, so they do not understand how incredible the achievement was to go to the moon in light of relatively primitive technology. They would not understand what is it like to not have a calculator, let alone a computer.
4. They have never worked with vintage computers and have no experience regarding the difficulty of optimising algorthims and cutting code to fit in tiny program storage.
5. They are more interested in Facebook, Twitter, mobile phones, reality TV and cooking shows.
 
My bet is the IMAX will be filled with baby boomers, except for a few from the X generation, very few from the Y generation and almost no post-millennials. I will report what I see. I may be wrong!

I write this as I am spending most of the weekend tuned to this...https://apolloinrealtime.org/11/ (Fantastic website).

I watched the Moon landing live at primary school in grade 7, it was awesome and the vibe was electric.

But that was in 1969 and perhaps it's ancient history to kids born after that, something they take for granted ?

I don't remember being excited about Columbus and the new world discoveries, they were ancient history to me as a kid perhaps it's the same for every generation?

Perhaps a better question may be are kids nowadays excited about SpaceX, about a manned Moon or Mars colony ?

Online BravoV

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May be its time to discuss with wife to move to different breeding ground ?

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/19/more-children-dream-of-being-youtubers-than-astronauts-lego-says.html

Children’s top career aspirations in the US and UK
    Vlogger/YouTuber
    Teacher
    Professional athlete
    Musician
    Astronaut

Children’s top career aspirations in China
    Astronaut
    Teacher
    Musician
    Professional athlete
    Vlogger/YouTuber

« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 08:29:25 am by BravoV »
 

Offline windsmurf

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May be its time to discuss with wife to move to different breeding ground ?

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/19/more-children-dream-of-being-youtubers-than-astronauts-lego-says.html

Children’s top career aspirations in the US and UK
    Vlogger/YouTuber
    Teacher
    Professional athlete
    Musician
    Astronaut

Children’s top career aspirations in China
    Astronaut
    Teacher
    Musician
    Professional athlete
    Vlogger/YouTuber

They should have included more choices... like Electrical Engineer!
They also probably didn't know Race Car Driver fits in under professional athlete...
 

Offline soldar

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2019, 11:03:31 am »
Every older generation believes the younger generations are no good and have lost values. The baby boomers, of which I am one, were pot-smoking hippies which were going to destroy western civilization. And, in some ways they did but it wasn't all bad.

And while people were getting stoned Bill Gates and his buddies and a few other nerds were developing the next generation of computers. The pot-smoking hippies laughed at the nerds but in the end the nerds were the most influential.

Some things degrade and may self-correct later. If they don't then that culture goes to shit and other cultures take over. No big deal in the grand scheme of things. During my lifetime I have seen great countries go to shit and shitty countries progress at unbelievable rates.

But it is similar to us, when we are told about the great sailors who circumnavigated the unknown earth on wind power alone and the most rudimentary navigation aids. No refrigeration to maintain the food fresh. Unknown and deadly diseases. We cannot comprehend the magnitude of their achievements when we are flying over the vast oceans at 40,000 ft and 600 mph, and all we do is to complain that the food service was mediocre.
Not only that, people of today, young and old alike, will judge past generations with a certainty that only ignorance can breed.  Explorers are condemned as greedy and oppressors. Nobody tries to understand the mentality and conditions of the times. One thing I really dislike about present day politicians and leaders, especially in Spain, is the need to compare themselves with previous generations and show how much better they are. And to do that they have to lie about history. It is pathetic.

I have realized that science and technology advance a lot but socially we are still apes and have not advanced a bit since Roman times. Every generation is starting from scratch.
All my posts are made with 100% recycled electrons and bare traces of grey matter.
 
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Online coppice

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2019, 11:18:33 am »
How much do you know about the details of Marco Polo's exploration? Or Christopher Columbus? Or anyone who explored before you were born?
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2019, 11:21:54 am »

My two diodes worth:

You don't really expect young people to be that web search challenged to get into a space ship in 2020 made with OneHungTooLo parts,
with chip markings scratched off, NoName Capacitors made from recycled evergy drink and insect spray cans, parked next to heat sinks, 
loosely secured wiring harnesses,  :scared:

and welds performed by shorts and flip flop OS OHS approved wearing workers,
using coat hangers as filler material, using welders made from landfill ready car batteries in series ? 

The baby bommers can keep their intergalactic wet dreams,  :-[
young people today have better gigs in mind, like 'Live Long And Prosper'  :-+
and just 'live' period  :phew:

Besides, the conspiracy clowns did a stellar job of making a circus of the Apollo thing years ago, creating confusion and doubt, and wasted Youtube bandwidth  :horse:
Young people just won't buy into it, it's an embarrassment risk to believe whatever the real deal is either way, and peer shame  ::).

Can't blame em  :-//



 

Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2019, 11:44:40 am »
And while people were getting stoned Bill Gates and his buddies and a few other nerds were developing the next generation of computers. The pot-smoking hippies laughed at the nerds but in the end the nerds were the most influential ..

The chicks ignored me at high school mainly because I was a nerd (Australian term was a "dag"), and were more attracted to the less academic cool kids (most of whom never finished high school). I went to a high school reunion to discover the same women think I was now cool and the formerly cool youths did not do very well and looked worse for wear. One of the popular girls said, "If only I had known. Why did you tell me you were interested in me!" I am far from perfect but let me tell you I walked away feeling pretty good about it all :).

There are extreme exceptions. One guy, totally non-academic, a barely literate Aborigine was booted out of the school at the end of year 10. He was a trouble maker. Long story cut short: He went on to become the head of department at a major university and an expert on educating indigenous peoples in South East Asia and Africa, ran a mining company in Western Australia and CEO of a prominent business. He got a degree, an MBA, a PhD along the way.
 

Offline Whales

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2019, 11:48:17 am »
My POV (20-25yo): I've grown up saturated with Apollo stuff.  Many (most?) cartoons have a moon/space episode, many movies have used it as part of their plot and the footage/audio of "one small step" gets shown multiple times every year.  I'm told that it was special, but I have zero chance of ever experiencing it as such.

There was an ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corp) space special on a year or so back that spanned a few days (a week?), it had a few celebrities and was hyped by the ABC to be something special.  I tried to watch it and found I couldn't stand it:
  • One segment was a family buying an expensive star-radio-kit-thing for their kids and getting them to "listen" to the stars.  The kids were going "wow" and "cool" to the camera, it all felt horribly disconnected and fake.  It was a box that played noise, about the least interesting thing I could ever show a kid.
  • Another segment did the same thing at a telescope park, minus the kids.  Again fake "wows" and "is that something new we are hearing?".  "No" was the answer.  Felt very weird and uncomfortable to watch.
 

On the other end of the spectrum are the cheap space novels I read.  All sorts of wacky worlds, space-travel interpretations and adventures.  We have space-themed genres of games and movies that reach even further than the books.  Basically all of them describe worlds very different to the Apollo missions.

I particularly like some photos taken from space and stories about experiences in space.  That's about all I can say about it.  I don't think I'll ever be able to get a job in it.  I don't think I'll see much interesting to do with it in my lifetime.  Fundamentally gravity and the atmosphere are a great shield: getting past them requires energy sources big enough to also equivalently be weapons, so if they ever get cheap/simple enough to be  more commonplace or long-range then we will also have to deal with a lot of social change.

I would love for more space stuff to happen.  Alas that's a world of my fiction books and TV, not the world I've grown up in.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 11:56:56 am by Whales »
 

Offline Whales

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2019, 12:05:13 pm »
Perhaps a better question may be are kids nowadays excited about SpaceX, about a manned Moon or Mars colony ?

To answer this: no. 

Manned moonbases and mars trip ideas have regularly been mentioned in the media over my life, typically followed by "this is not feasible because X,Y,Z".  Our interest has been killed in these areas (beyond fiction movies/books/etc) repeatedly.  Australia  specific: it's not that different to hearing about high-speed rail on the news over and over again.

What we have seen succeeding is mostly rich people doing rich people stuff.  Parabolic-arc temporary zero G videos of entertainers with cameras, expensive cars being sent into orbit, etc.  Nothing that feels like it's going to affect us, just make fancy social media material.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 12:07:41 pm by Whales »
 
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Offline Domagoj T

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2019, 12:17:37 pm »
Maybe they saw the video of the A11 crew pretending to be 1/2 way to the moon, by placing a thing over the window looking at the Earth, and making it look like the Earth is the size of a marble, and the rest of the window is blacked out.

Like it or not, Bart Sibrel really did release the footage of the A11 crew faking images, so what's NASA'a excuse ?
Can you link this?

As for the topic, it's not young people issue.  Your wife would find similar disinterest in older folks. She encountered some individuals that are not interested in the subject, but if she were to talk to those guys about their interests, she would soon find out that most of them have hobbies or interests that she herself doesn't find exciting.
There are far too many fields and not nearly enough time to dedicate oneself to every one of them. We all need to budget our time and pick stuff that interests us the most.
 

Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2019, 12:22:16 pm »
May be its time to discuss with wife to move to different breeding ground ?

Where my wife works, most of the engineers are from Asia. So your point based on where they were kids grew up might not be too relevant.

My breeding ground is pretty good. Our three kids are well educated with engineering degrees, masters and PhDs. No astronauts, and no complaints here except the daughter is unlikely ever to live in Australia again as she married a Frenchman, has French citizenship and works for the French government in research. The eldest son is a gen X engineer, but is quite interested in the Apollo program unlike a lot of his peers. So as someone pointed out in this thread, there are exceptions.

Australia is moving towards reigniting our own space program, so who knows what the future holds. The biggest hindrance will be the ongoing lack of technical vision by our succession of politicians most of whom were lawyers.
 

Offline A Hellene

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2019, 01:03:32 pm »
Little children's playing management works flawlessly. Children may not yet have developed any national, religious or political consciousness, but they have an inherent sense of justice: Anyone who will get caught stealing in their games, gets stigmatised, intertwined and eliminated immediately, without any second thoughts... Children do not have any tolerance towards fraud or undue kindness, nor ridiculous 'philanthropy' to those who mock them. The children society, in its relentless simplicity, is spiritually and morally sound as a rock, compared to their 'wiser' older counterparts.

This is a three years old take on that subject matter (by 'Yours truly!')!


-George
Hi! This is George; and I am three and a half years old!
(This was one of my latest realisations, now in my early fifties!...)
 

Offline MyHeadHz

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2019, 01:31:45 pm »
You're all overthinking things way too much.

The vast majority of people like what they like, and dislike what they dislike, because of influence of their peers and society.  They see people who get attention and want to be like them.  It's the same for astronauts or movie stars in previous generations.  Whether they realize it or not, children pay attention to the people they see to notice what is encouraged, and they naturally gravitate towards that.  The media itself is largely irrelevant- print, TV, blogs, video, whatever.  It's just part of our natural instinct to 'belong.'  People usually think they like those things because they just like them.  But they like them because in their life, it those actions have been associated with positive dopamine feedback.  It's really as simple as that.  Well, unless there are other factors like autism involved.  But those are the exception to the rule.

So, unless there is some big government or media push for a new space program glorifying astronauts again, there will be a lower interest.  Musk has a chance to really turn things around though, but that's about it.  Another factor is how often things happen.  With space, it can be years between big events to look forward to.  Those dopamine hits are larger, but they don't happen that often.  There is also a limit to dopamine hits.  Online media like twitter and Instagram have continued to maximize their platforms for this.  Instead of waiting weeks or months for big events, these artificial ones happen all the time.  Dopamine is a huge motivating factor, and kids nowadays are absolutely flooded with it.

So nobody is talking about it, so it isn't reinforced.  Either the government or big celebrities would have to push it for quite a while to change things- it doesn't change overnight.

To add...

It's the media companies and our current profit models that are really driving it.  Social media is driven by ad revenue, which is now driven by interest.  Clickbait and fake hysteria are big business.  The rest f the problems stem from this feedback system.  It's really quite an unfortunate situation.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 01:37:18 pm by MyHeadHz »
 

Offline vk6zgo

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2019, 01:32:26 pm »
Maybe they saw the video of the A11 crew pretending to be 1/2 way to the moon, by placing a thing over the window looking at the Earth, and making it look like the Earth is the size of a marble, and the rest of the window is blacked out.

Like it or not, Bart Sibrel really did release the footage of the A11 crew faking images, so what's NASA'a excuse ?

I really wish people would go walk on the Moon, that would be cool.
I really wish lordvader would quit posting crap, but we can't all get our wishes.
 

Online chris_leyson

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #29 on: July 20, 2019, 01:33:14 pm »
I think most of what VK3DRB said in the first post. I don't think it's just young people either, most of the engineers I work with don't seem to give a damn about space related subjects or seemingly any other engineering subjects, I think they just switch off at 5 o'clock and go home, that's assuming they were "switched on" in the first place.
The Indian Space Research Organisation's (ISRO) Chandrayaan-2 moon mission is hopefuly going to lauch on Monday 22nd July after a weeks delay. Chandrayaan-2 is made up of three vehicles: an orbiter, a lander called Vikram and a small rover called Pragyan, moon landing scheduled for 8th Septmber. Best of luck ISRO  :-+
 

Online tooki

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #30 on: July 20, 2019, 01:36:51 pm »
My wife mentioned at her work that I had just booked two seats for us to visit the Melbourne IMAX theatre to see the acclaimed Apollo 11 documentary. She works at a major robotics/sensors/controls/power company. Her colleagues, many of them younger engineers and technicians, thought nothing of it and one asked why would anyone bother seeing a documentary on Apollo 11? My wife was somewhat taken back by lack of excitement for man's greatest technical achievement, and possibly the greatest adventure in the history of the human race. She was somewhat surprised and even disappointed, as I was to hear it.

Why the lack of interest? Or have you have found young people are just as enthusiastic in his historic anniversary on Apollo 11?
First of all, I don’t think it’s even realistic to expect the same kind of enthusiasm, since a lot of technology now is a lot more advanced. It’s not reasonable to expect the same kind of wonderment about technology you’ve known about your entire life.

Like... the telephone would have been magical to someone who’d never seen it before. If you grew up with it, it’s just a normal thing.

And how do you know they hadn’t already seen other documentaries about Apollo 11? Yet another one isn’t that amazing.

Maybe a lack of interest is due to:
1. The WOW! factor is gone in many young people because they have been desensitised by the plethora of great innovations in their lifetime.
2. Fewer engineers today have genuine deep interest in technology, over just having a job to pay the bills.
3. They were not alive at the time man landed on the moon, so they do not understand how incredible the achievement was to go to the moon in light of relatively primitive technology. They would not understand what is it like to not have a calculator, let alone a computer.
4. They have never worked with vintage computers and have no experience regarding the difficulty of optimising algorthims and cutting code to fit in tiny program storage.
5. They are more interested in Facebook, Twitter, mobile phones, reality TV and cooking shows.
1. See above. That’s absolutely normal.
2. Complete nonsense. If anything, young people are LESS driven by money. Cf. all the stereotypes about whiny millennials who only want “meaningful” work and don’t understand the value of a hard days work for an honest dollar.
3. Most documentaries don’t emphasize this, thanks to history (as a discipline) being dominated by people who focus on the social and political aspects of things, with technological history getting lip service at best.
4. Never worked with vintage computers? Sure. But neither did most of us. But small program storage? There’s plenty of that in the embedded space, and modern space hardware is obsolete and tiny by mainstream standards. Those aren’t getting coded in C# and Java...
5. Older adults are often just as glued to their screens and mindless drivel as younger ones. (And why single out cooking shows? They’ve existed since the 1950s, so it’s hardly a millennial thing. If anything, millennials and younger probably watch more cooking stuff on YouTube than on actual cooking shows, since the youtube ones tend to be much more authentic.)

In closing, your entire argument is based on unfounded stereotypes and assumptions, not on anything resembling objective fact.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #31 on: July 20, 2019, 02:21:44 pm »
I watched the Moon landing live at primary school in grade 7, it was awesome and the vibe was electric.

But that was in 1969 and perhaps it's ancient history to kids born after that, something they take for granted ?

I don't remember being excited about Columbus and the new world discoveries, they were ancient history to me as a kid perhaps it's the same for every generation?

Perhaps a better question may be are kids nowadays excited about SpaceX, about a manned Moon or Mars colony ?
I agree with this. While the Apollo moonlanding was a technological marvel at the time nowadays space travel is pretty much common and safe. IIRC the last dissaster with fatalities was in 1986 and that is already over 30 years ago. Even during the Apollo program the public lost interest after the moon landing.
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Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2019, 02:32:37 pm »
I watched the Moon landing live at primary school in grade 7, it was awesome and the vibe was electric.

But that was in 1969 and perhaps it's ancient history to kids born after that, something they take for granted ?

I don't remember being excited about Columbus and the new world discoveries, they were ancient history to me as a kid perhaps it's the same for every generation?

Perhaps a better question may be are kids nowadays excited about SpaceX, about a manned Moon or Mars colony ?
I agree with this. While the Apollo moonlanding was a technological marvel at the time nowadays space travel is pretty much common and safe. IIRC the last dissaster with fatalities was in 1986 and that is already over 30 years ago. Even during the Apollo program the public lost interest after the moon landing.

I also agree with this, but will add something that may be too obvious to even be mentioned?

Young people aren't really any more interested in any other space program IMO, even much more recent ones. When was the last time youngsters got excited with the ISS or even with the missions to Mars? That's not just limited to Apollo, so no need to excessively obsess over it either as all media seem to be doing lately due to a sudden renewed interest in Moon programs. Back in the day, of course that was so impressive, and in a very different context, that it got pretty much everyone excited, but this time has long gone, and even back then, the public excitment only really lasted a couple years...

That's not just the young people either as I see it. Most people don't care that much about space exploration. Maybe because that's hugely expensive, doesn't bring them any direct benefit, and means nothing to their daily life. Maybe that's also a consequence of many people not believing in the grandeur of humanity's achievements much anymore... as opposed to the mindset people had in the 60's and 70's. Just a thought.
 

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2019, 02:44:42 pm »
While the Apollo moonlanding was a technological marvel at the time nowadays space travel is pretty much common and safe. IIRC the last dissaster with fatalities was in 1986 and that is already over 30 years ago. Even during the Apollo program the public lost interest after the moon landing.
The last disaster was the second space shuttle failure in 2003. The world is currently down to just one well proven manned flight platform, and struggling to get new ones safe enough to carry people - see this week's incident during ground testing at SpaceX.

Your second point is valid. Every Apollo flight after 11 saw falling audiences, apart from 13 where the potential for disaster perked the public's interest.
 
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Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #34 on: July 20, 2019, 02:55:58 pm »
That's not just the young people either as I see it. Most people don't care that much about space exploration. Maybe because that's hugely expensive, doesn't bring them any direct benefit, and means nothing to their daily life.
Until they find out just how much of the technology everyone takes for granted rely on satellites. Deep space, however, is a different matter...
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Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #35 on: July 20, 2019, 03:22:35 pm »
That's not just the young people either as I see it. Most people don't care that much about space exploration. Maybe because that's hugely expensive, doesn't bring them any direct benefit, and means nothing to their daily life.
Until they find out just how much of the technology everyone takes for granted rely on satellites. Deep space, however, is a different matter...

Yes, but do not hold your breath on the "until". Most people are not grateful and do not necessarily understand how all this technology has been brought to them either. Just how it is. Especially younger people who have ALWAYS been exposed to this technology. It's all great for sure, but we've long passed the stage when it was new and exciting. It's now taken for granted as you said, and not just that, people even gradually have no choice but using it. At this point, it's unfortunately obvious that direct interest for technology will vanish.

To get people really interested in a new space mission, I think it would have to have characteristics that would definitely promise to change some things for the better for humanity. That was the spirit at the beginning of Apollo missions IMO. And again, given the current mindset of humanity (as I see it, you may see it differently of course), which has dramatically lost faith in our future IMO, it's going to take a lot to get people interested again.
 

Offline magic

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #36 on: July 20, 2019, 03:36:12 pm »
Every older generation believes the younger generations are no good and have lost values. The baby boomers, of which I am one, were pot-smoking hippies which were going to destroy western civilization. And, in some ways they did but it wasn't all bad.

Some things degrade and may self-correct later. If they don't then that culture goes to shit and other cultures take over. No big deal in the grand scheme of things.
:wtf:

Not only that, people of today, young and old alike, will judge past generations with a certainty that only ignorance can breed.  Explorers are condemned as greedy and oppressors. Nobody tries to understand the mentality and conditions of the times. One thing I really dislike about present day politicians and leaders, especially in Spain, is the need to compare themselves with previous generations and show how much better they are. And to do that they have to lie about history. It is pathetic.
You are one bizarre guy. But at least you see plebocracy for what it is, I can respect you for that.

I have realized that science and technology advance a lot but socially we are still apes and have not advanced a bit since Roman times. Every generation is starting from scratch.
Yeah, growing up as a millennial I thought, like probably everyone else, that the future will be boring. I certainly don't think so anymore.
And I think here's where you are wrong: there is no "advancing", we are apes. No matter how you slice it, this century is gonna be as fun as any other before.
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #37 on: July 20, 2019, 03:48:07 pm »
The Romans were actually pretty advanced. But no, not every generation starts from scratch. It that were true, you would probably not even be able to feed yourself. But anyway. :popcorn:

Switching the cynical mode on.

I guess if the NASA launched a space reality TV show, that could definitely spark a new interest and significant audience for new space programs.

Maybe I should patent the concept of "space reality TV" now.
 

Offline richnormand

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #38 on: July 20, 2019, 04:04:48 pm »
With the visit of an Australian friend and his wife we celebrated by playing "The Dish".
Both had no idea of the role Australia had played during the moon landing.

My kids are well aware but both seemed more attuned on the status of earth and what will their own kids will have to deal with.
Quite different from the hopeful attitude from what I remember feeling at the time.
 
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Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #39 on: July 20, 2019, 04:06:40 pm »
My kids are well aware but both seemed more attuned on the status of earth and what will their own kids will have to deal with.
Quite different from the hopeful attitude from what I remember feeling at the time.

That confirms what I was expressing above...
 

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #40 on: July 20, 2019, 06:27:57 pm »
Maybe young people ask the right questions:
Why spent giga billions of $ into space programs which results in 0 ROI. That when we really need a revolutionary new energy source, machines that will collect the nanoplasticks investing our bodies and killing us prematurely and CO2 harvesters.
Why don't we focus our energy on the catastrophies that are emerging and try our damn best to counter them ?
 

Offline Nusa

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #41 on: July 20, 2019, 06:50:48 pm »
As a baby boomer, I'm not that motivated to see that movie either. I absorbed the entire Apollo program as it happened, and my memory is excellent. I recognize not everyone remembers so clearly, however.

space programs which results in 0 ROI.

There are all sorts of technological advances that are tied, directly and indirectly, to development caused by space programs. Just because people take them for granted now that they exist doesn't change reality. GPS. Satellite TV. Tiny camera technology. Scratch-resistant plastics. CAT scans. Foil blankets. Memory foam. Water purifiers. Freeze dried food. The list goes on.

I wouldn't call that zero return on investment.

 
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Online james_s

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #42 on: July 20, 2019, 06:52:45 pm »
And while people were getting stoned Bill Gates and his buddies and a few other nerds were developing the next generation of computers. The pot-smoking hippies laughed at the nerds but in the end the nerds were the most influential.

I think you're making some incorrect assumptions there. I spent most of the first decade of my career working at MS and I can tell you it was not unusual in the least to catch a whiff of the distinctive smell of pot wafting through the parking garages. The tech industry as a whole tends to be very pot friendly and I have never worked anywhere that actually drug tested people. This was even more true of video game companies, lots of stories out there about the early days of Atari when they were flying high, literally. A friend of mine worked at Commodore back in the 80s and had similar tales.

Lots of very bright, creative and highly paid people use the stuff in moderation, there are of course plenty of stereotypical lazy stoners out there just like there are millions of hardcore alcoholics drinking their life away. There are also plenty of people who enjoy a glass of wine at dinner or have a beer with their lunch without abusing it. Pot and alcohol are very similar, except alcohol is the most commonly abused and deadly recreational drug by a very, very wide margin.
 
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Online james_s

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #43 on: July 20, 2019, 07:01:15 pm »
I suspect it's like anything else, how many kids are fascinated by things that happened decades before they were born? They have no connection to it, they weren't there, it doesn't resonate with them at all, and why would it? A few people are fascinated by history, I'm one of them, I collect 70s-80s video games, I tinker with vacuum tubes, I like old cars and old airplanes but most people are just not that interested in the past.

Personally I think the Apollo program was interesting but even for me it all happened before I was born so it's not something that has fascinated me to any great degree. It's a cool historical artifact, it's a neat accomplishment but for me there was no time before men had been to the moon just like for kids these days the internet and mobile phones have always been a thing. For any young person today there's nothing novel about being able to call someone anywhere in the world from a device in their pocket. I still remember the first time I ever used a car phone to call somebody and it seemed amazing but I wouldn't expect anyone much younger than me to understand that at all or care about it.
 

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #44 on: July 20, 2019, 07:08:45 pm »
Quote
Why spent giga billions of $ into space programs which results in 0 ROI.
You're probably using a load of technology that was originally developed for the space industry or developed as a consequence of space industry. If you want to talk about return on investment for one specific thing, well, imagine for a moment the cost savings that GPS enabled.
Quote
That when we really need a revolutionary new energy source, machines that will collect the nanoplasticks investing our bodies and killing us prematurely and CO2 harvesters.
Yes, all of those things are very useful and desirable. But knowledge is complementary and cumulative. Advances in one science lead to advances in other sciences. There's a whole lot of advances in solar technology thanks to space exploration. Miniaturization techniques that were developed for the space program enabled lower overall size and power consumption.
Quote
Why don't we focus our energy on the catastrophies that are emerging and try our damn best to counter them ?
I'm not sure what you're proposing? Kill ALL research not pertaining to, say, fusion?
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Offline soldar

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #45 on: July 20, 2019, 07:47:47 pm »
I think you're making some incorrect assumptions there. I spent most of the first decade of my career working at MS and I can tell you it was not unusual in the least to catch a whiff of the distinctive smell of pot wafting through the parking garages. The tech industry as a whole tends to be very pot friendly and I have never worked anywhere that actually drug tested people. This was even more true of video game companies, lots of stories out there about the early days of Atari when they were flying high, literally. A friend of mine worked at Commodore back in the 80s and had similar tales.

Lots of very bright, creative and highly paid people use the stuff in moderation, there are of course plenty of stereotypical lazy stoners out there just like there are millions of hardcore alcoholics drinking their life away. There are also plenty of people who enjoy a glass of wine at dinner or have a beer with their lunch without abusing it. Pot and alcohol are very similar, except alcohol is the most commonly abused and deadly recreational drug by a very, very wide margin.
Oh, I know what you mean and I agree. I was just trying to paint the dichotomy between hippies, who spent all their time stoned, protesting the war and practicing "free love", and "nerds" who were focused on nerdy things.

The older generations thought the hippies were the downfall of western civilization. And in certain ways, they were.

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Offline NANDBlog

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #46 on: July 20, 2019, 09:15:24 pm »
Why the lack of interest? Or have you have found young people are just as enthusiastic in his historic anniversary on Apollo 11?
For one, I'm not really enthusiastic, because it reminds me that the last, manned moon landing happened before I was born, and due to the idiots the baby boomers elected as politicians, nobody got to moon in more than 40 years. I have to watch sci-fi if I want to see something remotely similar. And the baby boomers were busy ruining the planet meanwhile. I watched the MIR falling from the sky, huge budget cuts to the ISS, the Kenedy space center turned into Disneyland, the Bajkonur to rust. Europeans spend 30 times more money on alcohol than on the ESA.

It makes me sad, thats why I'm not celebrating.
 
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Online Kjelt

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #47 on: July 20, 2019, 09:26:22 pm »
There are all sorts of technological advances that are tied, directly and indirectly, to development caused by space programs. Just because people take them for granted now that they exist doesn't change reality. GPS. Satellite TV. Tiny camera technology. Scratch-resistant plastics. CAT scans. Foil blankets. Memory foam. Water purifiers. Freeze dried food. The list goes on.
I wouldn't call that zero return on investment.
Yes all from the past, what about the last ten years?
I am not talking about fourty years ago I know what it brought and at that time it brought greatbenefits and unfortunately also better weapons.
But what about now? Why put extreme large amounts of money into space programms? To put a man on mars, really? What would that accomplish? Another man on the moon? Colonize the moon?

We as species have prooven unworthy of occupying any new planet before we can proof to ourselves we can make a succes of living on one planet and not destroying the environment and ourselves. Lets start with that first.
 

Online daqq

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #48 on: July 20, 2019, 09:37:13 pm »
Quote
Yes all from the past, what about the last ten years?
Well, there's a host of weather and environmental satellites monitoring the Earth, greatly advancing the understanding of the atmosphere. There are commercial applications.
Quote
Why put extreme large amounts of money into space programms?
I'm not sure that you've got your numbers in perspective to other things. NASA* has a budget of ~20G*** USD. In 2017 pet owners in the US alone spent 70G USD on pet products (food, toys etc.). Global box office revenue was ~40G USD in 2018. A film about blue cat people got ~3G USD. If you want to start slashing budgets or reassigning resources, you may want to start of somewhere else and gain a little perspective. NASA and similar organizations do a lot of vital research, enable awesome technologies and who knows what kind of tech we can miss if it doesn't get funded.

* - I'll be using NASA, though similar ratios/things apply to other similar organizations. 
** - sources mostly a quick google search, the numbers might be off somewhat.
*** - G notation = giga = billion
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Online Kjelt

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #49 on: July 20, 2019, 09:57:15 pm »
I'm not sure that you've got your numbers in perspective to other things. NASA* has a budget of ~20G*** USD.
Yes I know but they are not putting a man on mars with that. The discussion as I thought it was , is why not do some huge programm as in the 60s so fifty fold that budget.
Not my country not my choice but except for the cool factor I think better things can be done for a trillion dollar then putting a man on mars. But hey the us already spending 700 billion a year on the army while your biggest opponents are "only" spending 60 billion, wouldn't you as a nation be better off to lower your countries debt and rebuild and increase infrastructure, education and health system ?  :-//
And no I am no communist or lefty, just a rational engineer that keeps on thinking we have the wrong agendas.
 

Offline techman-001

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #50 on: July 20, 2019, 10:54:18 pm »
Maybe young people ask the right questions:
Why spent giga billions of $ into space programs which results in 0 ROI. That when we really need a revolutionary new energy source, machines that will collect the nanoplasticks investing our bodies and killing us prematurely and CO2 harvesters.
Why don't we focus our energy on the catastrophies that are emerging and try our damn best to counter them ?

I respectfully disagree. I think young people by and large are ignorant and brimming with their own self importance. They are convinced they are smarter and know better, just because ...

I'm hoping they will grow out of it like I did.

They also don't realise that most of the tech they enjoy today came about as a result of WAR, the deaths of millions of our best and brightest and the hurriedly rushed budget less government driven programs to develop new devastating weapons for their nations survival.

Look at the years of 'mostly' peace since WW2, what major new inventions equal those wartime developments, or those developed ONLY because of the subsequent  "cold war' space race ?

Sitting under a coconut tree, having a nice Facebook session with your ten thousand 'friends' doesn't build Fusion Reactors or Faster Than Light communications or anything that's game changing.

That friendly, eco compatible Fusion Generator the youth are waiting for  will probably only come as a weapon of WAR, and they will have to die in the millions before they can have it.

After the WAR, there will be peace mainly because so many are dead and the survivors are exhausted. They and their kids will live in a world of plenty just as I did, and their kids will be known as the Second Baby Boomer Generation.

Those dumbasses who think that Baby Boomers are *the problem* obviously are ignorant of the real cause leading to their creation. This ignorance will surely guarantee the Second Baby Boomer Generation.

The only thing that worries me is that the terrible Atomic Bomb invention used at the end of WW2 on the Japanese has proliferated wildly, so perhaps the survivors will have two heads, glow in the dark and dream of legends of small holy devices which people once used to communicate over great distances that were made by Gods called  'set-a-lights' which live in the sky and can be witnessed at night as they fly overhead.

 
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Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #51 on: July 20, 2019, 11:36:03 pm »

Young people can watch Apollo and Capricorn One anytime they like on Youtube, it's no biggie for them/Meh City  ::)

nor do they have to group around a ricketty tube filled black and white TV to see the show and cigarette commercials.

They realise that there's nothing up there to keep their short phone addiction attention span, so why bother getting educated to stuff about with an obvious career FAIL? 

They don't need to share baby boomers (aka old young people) interest in dead lifeless space with no resources to exploit,
therefore no future and or no financing from the corporats.

They are phone junkies, and never exposed to the bare bones 'enough to get a job' education and media influence that battling young people had in the 50s and 60s,
BTW whose parents were the real heroes, with little or no education, having to leave their war ravaged homes and working mundane dead end jobs in a foreign land,
where the welcoming locals  :-+  were already doing it tough themselves.

Young people are best served using technology and information handballing  to learn to live off the land and support themselves, as their predecessors did,
in readiness for the times when the corporats and politicians fail them, as they do every few decades.  >:D

 
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Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #52 on: July 21, 2019, 02:50:04 am »
Slight divergence. Armstrong is about to walk on the moon in about 10 minutes, 50 years ago exactly.

https://apolloinrealtime.org/11/, click on NOW button.

Whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

Offline @rt

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #53 on: July 21, 2019, 07:31:45 am »
Born several years after here.

I’m very interested in vintage computing, and particularly, the core memories, but as for the rest, couldn’t care less about it.
That includes rockets & space travel.
I do find Neil & Buzz interviews/personalities interesting, and would probably watch the Neil Armstrong movie.

I’m also quite interested in GPS, geostationary sats that provide TV, etc... and imagery and weather sats etc.
Basically all of the stuff in the sky I see the practical daily use of.

I’m not interested enough to know that it actually happened, just happen to be convinced.
 

Offline DC1MC

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #54 on: July 21, 2019, 07:51:34 am »
If you're not Chinese or Indian there is no deed to be interested in STEM, your job will be outsourced anyway sooner than later, the real money is in MBA, law, finance or diversity officer, or so they say...  >:D
 
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Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #55 on: July 21, 2019, 07:56:26 am »
With the visit of an Australian friend and his wife we celebrated by playing "The Dish".
Both had no idea of the role Australia had played during the moon landing.

My kids are well aware but both seemed more attuned on the status of earth and what will their own kids will have to deal with.
Quite different from the hopeful attitude from what I remember feeling at the time.

Few people don't know about Parkes outside Australia. Less known, even in Australia, is Honeysuckle Creek which played a far more important role in man landing on the moon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeysuckle_Creek_Tracking_Station

The Dish is a good Aussie movie (I have watched it 11 times), but a lot of it is historical :bullshit:. For example no one played cricket on the dish prior to the moon landing :-DD. Still, it is good movie that stirs the emotions. I sent a copy of The Dish to an American ham radio friend of mine... he loved it. But for some reason it flopped in the USA; possibly because they had trouble with the humour or the Aussie accent.

A better movie, IMO, is October Sky. Fabulous movie made by the Americans about Homer Hickam, who became an aerospace engineer for NASA. Now that is a movie that Dave Jones might want to consider watching with his son when he his around 12 years old. Or any dad might want to watch with their kids.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 07:58:08 am by VK3DRB »
 

Online Kjelt

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #56 on: July 21, 2019, 08:06:52 am »
Quote
october sky
Thanks put it on my watch list.

Started with the Apollo11 docu, beautifull crisp pictures now and then just as if it happened yesterday, but must admit that I was done after half an hour, will continue later.
Weird because a movie like Apollo13 I have watched over six times, had it on dvd and bluray and now bought it on 4K UHD.

 

Offline Dubbie

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #57 on: July 21, 2019, 08:08:37 am »
I was born more than a decade after Apollo 11 but am rather obsessed with the whole exercise. I think it is the grandest adventure mankind has ever embarked on. It’s going to take a lot to top! I love reading about all the technical minutiae of the launch system and landers. All the little and large problems they solved are absolutely fascinating to me. I probably have at least a couple of feet of books on my shelves about rockets and spacecraft.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #58 on: July 21, 2019, 08:36:56 am »
As a baby boomer, I'm not that motivated to see that movie either. I absorbed the entire Apollo program as it happened, and my memory is excellent. I recognize not everyone remembers so clearly, however.

space programs which results in 0 ROI.
There are all sorts of technological advances that are tied, directly and indirectly, to development caused by space programs. Just because people take them for granted now that they exist doesn't change reality. GPS. Satellite TV. Tiny camera technology. Scratch-resistant plastics. CAT scans. Foil blankets. Memory foam. Water purifiers. Freeze dried food. The list goes on.
I have some doubts about that list. However there are many experiments which can not be done on earth due to gravity. The people in space aren't sitting on their thumbs looking pretty but they are doing scientific experiments non-stop.

Just a random grab from what they are doing in the ISS:
https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/station/research/news/SSSH_15jul19

The days of putting jet-fighter pilots in space are long gone. IIRC there was already a scientist on the last flight of the Apollo program to do proper research on the moon.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 08:39:37 am by nctnico »
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Offline David Hess

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #59 on: July 21, 2019, 11:38:52 am »
I lack interest because not having followed up, the whole thing become a one time stunt.  The US was never serious about it except as a way to compete with and show up the Soviets.  Maybe that was important enough to justify the economic cost but the technology and science aspects were just along for the ride.

Because of that, I could not care less about the NASA's SLS and return missions for the science and technology.  Maybe like the Shuttle, the economic cost of supporting the aerospace industry is also worth it but that is not the justification they give.

On the other hand, Elon Musk is actually getting something done and I follow news about SpaceX very closely.

Kings of the High Frontier pretty much covers my thoughts about NASA and Congress.

There are all sorts of technological advances that are tied, directly and indirectly, to development caused by space programs.

Many of them would have happened anyway.  I think NASA, as an agent of Congress, has ultimately held back advances in space technology.  The useful things NASA has accomplished represent a tiny part of NASA's budget.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 11:44:47 am by David Hess »
 

Offline wilfred

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #60 on: July 21, 2019, 11:55:05 am »
Slight divergence. Armstrong is about to walk on the moon in about 10 minutes, 50 years ago exactly.

https://apolloinrealtime.org/11/, click on NOW button.

Whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Really been enjoying this site.
 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #61 on: July 21, 2019, 12:02:49 pm »
A few years ago, AIRBUS out of France did an European wide survey of young people who almost had finished their general school education (before college) and wanted to know what their number one goal was for a future job.

The results shocked them beyond believe.

The number one wish was for becoming a "celebrity"

No more pilot, fireman, doctor, scientist or whatever was a cool goal during my time of growing up.
Something shifted in the last 20 years dramatically.

(I can not find the reference at the moment, it was a YT video by an executive of Airbus.)

« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 12:31:38 pm by HighVoltage »
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Offline Chriss

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #62 on: July 21, 2019, 12:10:23 pm »
Hi to all of you!
Everything was written here. All the answers are here "why young peoe are notinterested.. " .
I woild ask, is there any link  where I could watch that online?

Thank you.
I'm from Europe but I wish I could be also there...

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Offline Black Phoenix

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #63 on: July 21, 2019, 12:25:49 pm »
A few years ago, AIRBUS out of France did an European wide survey of young people who almost had finished their general school education (before college) and wanted to know what their number one goal was for a future job.

The results shocked them beyond believe.

The number one wish was for becoming a "celebrity"

No more pilot, fireman, doctor, scientist or whatever was a cool goal during my time of growing up.
Something shifted in the last 2 years dramatically.

(I can not find the reference at the moment, it was a YT video by an executive of Airbus.)

To be sincere, when you have sport players (football, soccer, f1, basketball, baseball, etc) earning more and being more recognized and having more time of attention that the person who discovered a cure to a disease, that doesn't surprised me...

Tell me when was the last time you saw a documentary, a recent one done about the Nobel Price, the last year one for example or in the last 10 years one of them. Now tell me how many documentaries and shows about life of a sports player did you saw in the last 10 years.

Plus mostly now kids are connected to the YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and other Social Media. I'm 33, and had colleagues with 21, 22 max. By looking by their own searchers and likes on that Social Apps I only saw likes to the new car the football player had, or the party the other athlete had at home, or the YouTuber who bought a Nike Shoes that cost more that $500 or the rapper who bought a Lambo.

Things about science or discovery don't catch up in the idea that the new ones have. They don't dream of getting into new worlds, they dream in getting a good life.
 

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #64 on: July 21, 2019, 12:29:47 pm »
To be sincere, when you have sport players (football, soccer, f1, basketball, baseball, etc) earning more and being more recognized and having more time of attention that the person who discovered a cure to a disease, that doesn't surprised me...
It seems this has always been the case. Many historians still say the highest paid sports star ever was Gaius Appuleius Diocles, a Roman charioteer.
 
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Online Kjelt

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #65 on: July 21, 2019, 12:31:17 pm »
A few years ago, AIRBUS out of France did an European wide survey of young people who almost had finished their general school education (before college) and wanted to know what their number one goal was for a future job.
The results shocked them beyond believe.

The number one wish was for becoming a "celebrity"
Uh yeah if you see how much money those people make a year when succesfull that is whats ticking their clock. Always have been a driver for the other known studies.

I understand kids would like that till they are in their puberty but after that it would be nice if thy come down with both feet on the ground and started to make serious effort into getting an education at least a bit in the direction of their future profession.
No wonder depression and burnout is a growing problem with young adults, their sense of reality is far from the cold harsh reality of having to work for a living and actually doing most of the time stuff you don't give anything about.
 

Offline mikerj

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #66 on: July 21, 2019, 12:32:59 pm »
Maybe they saw the video of the A11 crew pretending to be 1/2 way to the moon, by placing a thing over the window looking at the Earth, and making it look like the Earth is the size of a marble, and the rest of the window is blacked out.

Like it or not, Bart Sibrel really did release the footage of the A11 crew faking images, so what's NASA'a excuse ?

I really wish people would go walk on the Moon, that would be cool.

Hopefully we aren't raising a generation of paranoid conspiracy theorists with no critical thinking ability or self awareness.
 

Offline Black Phoenix

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #67 on: July 21, 2019, 12:44:25 pm »
I was lucky because when I was a kid, I basically had access to lots of books from my Mom and Uncle, so had the chance to read about the 70s and 60s. I had a book that I don't know were it is that were the Apollo Program in a big encyclopedia with beautiful colour photos, some full page.

I had also some about National Geographic, Computer Science, Human Evolution, Society Story, etc...

I had all of that but I didn't had access to a PC until I was 10 and Internet until I was 14. So I had lots of time to read and read and read. And interest for it.

Nowadays youth pick up the phone and have access to the world. So they don't read or try to memorise things, if they need they "Google it". I would love to have had that access when I was a kid. I probably would had read a lot more about all that subjects... Or probably not and would be exactly how teenagers nowadays are.
 

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #68 on: July 21, 2019, 12:53:50 pm »
So what makes you think that young people aren't interested in the Apollo 11 mission, or the Apollo program?  I mean, from the sounds of it, you have a couple of examples of young people who don't wish to see a documentary at the IMAX - not really representative of an entire generation (or generations).

From an engineering perspective it is cool, the challenges, the solutions, the sheer effort, but expecting the following generations - who had different "landmark events" in their youth - to share the same views you have is somewhat naive.  It could be that the younger generation watch far more media, and therefore exposed to more hype than yourself.  In the past few weeks, mentions of the moon landing have been everywhere and I'll admit to becoming slightly tired of it.

This isn't NASA's fault, this isn't a generation thing, this is the modern media jumping on any bandwagon they can, and saturating peoples interest, so maybe the person at your wife's work was simply tired of hearing about it - and the implication that he/she should be amazed/interested.

I wasn't alive when we landed on the moon, or for any Apollo missions, I don't have any fond memories of it happening to relive. 
 
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Offline richnormand

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #69 on: July 21, 2019, 03:03:29 pm »


Few people don't know about Parkes outside Australia. Less known, even in Australia, is Honeysuckle Creek which played a far more important role in man landing on the moon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeysuckle_Creek_Tracking_Station

The Dish is a good Aussie movie (I have watched it 11 times), but a lot of it is historical :bullshit:. For example no one played cricket on the dish prior to the moon landing :-DD. Still, it is good movie that stirs the emotions. I sent a copy of The Dish to an American ham radio friend of mine... he loved it. But for some reason it flopped in the USA; possibly because they had trouble with the humour or the Aussie accent.

A better movie, IMO, is October Sky. Fabulous movie made by the Americans about Homer Hickam, who became an aerospace engineer for NASA. Now that is a movie that Dave Jones might want to consider watching with his son when he his around 12 years old. Or any dad might want to watch with their kids.

Thanks, I'll look for "October sky"

I was a summer student in the early 70s and part of a team that did observations on a similar radio telescope here.
The bit of playing inside the dish or the "hayride" would surely have us fired immediately. Safety and the precision of the reflecting surface and outer mesh was paramount but, hey, it's a film and supposed to be entertaining.
If it caused a few people to explore it further and follow a STEM career the better.

(By the way my wife has her PhD in radioastronomy... so I might be biassed :) )


Edit: spelling

« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 05:46:46 pm by richnormand »
 

Online tooki

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #70 on: July 21, 2019, 03:12:11 pm »
Until they find out just how much of the technology everyone takes for granted rely on satellites. Deep space, however, is a different matter...
So... GPS (and GLONASS and eventually Galileo) and (to a far, far lesser extent) weather/environmental observation satellites.

I don't think one can argue that any of the other kinds of satellites have any impact on everyday life. Space telescopes? Nope. Communications? Nope. Surveillance? Nope.
 

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #71 on: July 21, 2019, 03:59:04 pm »
Oh, I know what you mean and I agree. I was just trying to paint the dichotomy between hippies, who spent all their time stoned, protesting the war and practicing "free love", and "nerds" who were focused on nerdy things.

The older generations thought the hippies were the downfall of western civilization. And in certain ways, they were.

I think the hippies were like any other movement of predominantly young and naive, idealistic people. That and it was the natural backlash from the conformist 50s and 60s and people fed up with our increasing involvement in ever longer and more pointless wars. Eventually most of them realized that sitting around getting high doesn't actually accomplish anything and grew up. Plenty of former hippies became productive adults later on, a few didn't.

If anything I think the nerds were/are another counterculture that had more in common with the hippies than with society as a whole. It was the modern tech companies like Microsoft that rejected cultural norms like the traditional suit & tie and made casual dress at the office normal. It would have been practically unheard of in the 60s for a bunch of professional office workers to be lounging around in shorts and t-shirts but today that is almost universal in tech.
 

Offline 001

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #72 on: July 21, 2019, 04:15:38 pm »
When I was 20 I interested in girls and money. not space
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Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #73 on: July 21, 2019, 04:16:17 pm »
When I was 20 I interested in girls and money. not space
It is ok if You can understand me

 ;D
 

Online blueskull

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #74 on: July 21, 2019, 06:59:23 pm »
When I was 20 I interested in girls and money. not space
It is ok if You can understand me

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Offline coppercone2

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #75 on: July 21, 2019, 10:54:23 pm »
A few years ago, AIRBUS out of France did an European wide survey of young people who almost had finished their general school education (before college) and wanted to know what their number one goal was for a future job.

The results shocked them beyond believe.

The number one wish was for becoming a "celebrity"

No more pilot, fireman, doctor, scientist or whatever was a cool goal during my time of growing up.
Something shifted in the last 20 years dramatically.

(I can not find the reference at the moment, it was a YT video by an executive of Airbus.)

people figured out those jobs suck because of health risk, danger, long hours, lack of appreciation.

Part of celebs job is to go some where and drink with people. Engineers job is either to figure out how to do some shit no one cares about or to make something cheap and shitty and get nothing for it. Then when its done you get a 'oh yea you can do that'. (of course if they tried to figure it out themselves it would result in a suicide but still no one does that).

Can't imagine some 8th order filter designer hearing 'its just LCR dude, its a sophomore year class'. Partially googles fault I think, because people see a 'triangle' and a 'little spring' in google images and they think they know whats going on lol
« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 10:58:22 pm by coppercone2 »
 

Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #76 on: July 22, 2019, 02:29:34 am »
So what makes you think that young people aren't interested in the Apollo 11 mission, or the Apollo program?  I mean, from the sounds of it, you have a couple of examples of young people who don't wish to see a documentary at the IMAX - not really representative of an entire generation (or generations).

I will be at the IMAX in a few days. I will report on the age mix there in this forum. I might be wrong: it might be full of teenagers. But my gut feel it will be full of people with grey hair or no hair.
 

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #77 on: July 22, 2019, 02:57:12 am »
The number one wish was for becoming a "celebrity"
That's quite a lot easier (but still not that easy) with the advent of independent online media. But it does beg the question of how many followers/subscribers does it take to be a true celebrity. 100k? 1M?
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Offline David Hess

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #78 on: July 22, 2019, 03:28:50 am »
To be sincere, when you have sport players (football, soccer, f1, basketball, baseball, etc) earning more and being more recognized and having more time of attention that the person who discovered a cure to a disease, that doesn't surprised me...

Talent goes where the money is just as it should.  If society favors lawyers, marketers, and politicians over teachers, engineers, and scientists, then it gets what it deserves.

Do you think all of the STEM advertising is for the good of people who go into STEM fields?  Ha!
 
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Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #79 on: July 27, 2019, 03:51:55 am »
Well, I went to IMAX theatre last night to see the Apollo 11 documentary. Excellent movie that made you think you were there and part of it. Superb sound effects with the blast off - brilliantly done! Excellent footage too. I knew most of the stuff shown, except for the gas leak about 2 hours before lift off. It was cool to see the owner of Playtex bras helping fit his superbly engineered spacesuits to Armstrong, Aldrin and Collins.

I looked at the theatre clientele and I was delighted to see people of all ages there.

If I did a Pareto on ages, I would say the peak in the bell curve would be around 40-50 years old. Great to see kids there and even a few teenagers. One bloke had his two kids there, 6 and 8 years old (I asked him their ages). Before the movie, he said he was worried the kids would get bored and start mucking around. Despite the young ages present you could hear a pin drop during the silent parts of the film. Everyone was pretty much mesmerised.

Absent seemed to be people in their 70's or later - that was quite surprising. I would have thought a lot more grey-hairs or no-hairs would be there. The weather was crap - maybe that had something to do with it.

For those in Oz, I think IMAX is concluding the movie at the end of this month. I suggest you might want to see it whilst you have the chance.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2019, 08:40:25 am by VK3DRB »
 

Offline donotdespisethesnake

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #80 on: July 27, 2019, 09:51:46 am »
Hopefully we aren't raising a generation of paranoid conspiracy theorists with no critical thinking ability or self awareness.

Unfortunately, it seems that young people are vulnerable to conspiracy theories:

Quote
A recent YouGov poll found that one in six British people agreed with the statement: “The moon landings were staged.” Four per cent believed the hoax theory was “definitely true”, 12% that it was “probably true”, with a further 9% registering as don’t knows. Moon hoaxism was more prevalent among the young: 21 % of 24- to 35-year-olds agreed that the moon landings were staged, compared with 13% of over-55s.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/science/articles-reports/2019/04/25/which-science-based-conspiracy-theories-do-britons

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #81 on: July 27, 2019, 01:30:15 pm »
Hopefully we aren't raising a generation of paranoid conspiracy theorists with no critical thinking ability or self awareness.

Unfortunately, it seems that young people are vulnerable to conspiracy theories:

Quote
A recent YouGov poll found that one in six British people agreed with the statement: “The moon landings were staged.” Four per cent believed the hoax theory was “definitely true”, 12% that it was “probably true”, with a further 9% registering as don’t knows. Moon hoaxism was more prevalent among the young: 21 % of 24- to 35-year-olds agreed that the moon landings were staged, compared with 13% of over-55s.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/science/articles-reports/2019/04/25/which-science-based-conspiracy-theories-do-britons

I'm pretty sure its all ages, and all levels of education.  If anything, I would say the older generation are slightly more prone to believe conspiracies, purely because the older we get, the less we remember being wrong, and the more we remember being right, which is why we all tend to get more stubborn as we age.  It also means one spends longer having a belief, and so, makes it harder to change it.

As for the moon landing specifically,  I think its probably the opposite.  Those who were alive at the time and remember it are probably less likely to believe the conspiracy, where-as later generations have second and third hand evidence to counter the crazy.  As I've mentioned a few times on threads like this - seeing those who believe in conspiracy as being separate and silly, is exactly how conspiracy theorists view those who don't believe them :)
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #82 on: July 27, 2019, 01:46:31 pm »
My bet is the IMAX will be filled with baby boomers, except for a few from the X generation, very few from the Y generation and almost no post-millennials. I will report what I see. I may be wrong!

Yup, that's what it was. I went to the premiere of Apollo 11 at Melbourne IMAX.
It's a stones throw from RMIT and their big engineering school, didn't see a single one there.
They did recognise me on the street though, so at least they are watching Youtube engineering  ::)
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #83 on: July 27, 2019, 01:48:15 pm »
Looks like this is one of those false generational discussions again. There's nothing wrong with today's children. We should remind ourselves that the public interest in the Moon missions had wained almost completely when Apollo 13 came around. That's just two missions and 9 months after Apollo 11 and that apparently was enough to eliminate the excitement of a major historical achievement. In that light it's really hard to claim modern children are an exception. It's better to ask yourself what's wrong with people, rather than asking about today's children.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #84 on: July 27, 2019, 01:50:30 pm »
The number one wish was for becoming a "celebrity"
That's quite a lot easier (but still not that easy) with the advent of independent online media. But it does beg the question of how many followers/subscribers does it take to be a true celebrity. 100k? 1M?

As someone who gives talks in schools on being a Youtuber at career days, I can assure you that's all the majority seen to care about  :(
 

Online Kjelt

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #85 on: July 27, 2019, 02:25:22 pm »
So actually they go about it the wrong way.
First they should seek what really interests them, give them satisfaction to do for 9 hours a day and be able to become very good at it. Then they are asked to teach others and when chance has it, become a celebrity.
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #86 on: July 27, 2019, 02:50:59 pm »
It's not inherently "wrong".

Kids these days are exposed to thousands of videos showing them that this is a possible career path, that it looks kind of fun and doesn't entail having to deal with annoying bosses, unlike many grown-ups around them probably complaining a lot about that. Meanwhile, they are also exposed to conventional media that constantly show them how thousands of people with "regular" jobs are laid off by big companies showing no obvious signs of decline. They are also exposed to all the consequences on our environment of our modern and highly technological societies. Can you blame them for not being very excited about all this?

So this is basically "hope" in their eyes. Exactly like how sports, and then show business, was seen as the last hope for young people from disadvantaged social circles for decades.

The problem is that it's delusional. Because like in sports and show business, only a very small fraction of "Youtubers" (and similar activities) become successful enough to make a living out of it, let alone become a "celebrity". And apart from the extremely lucky ones, they will find out that it takes a lot of work and dedication - probably a lot more even than following a classic educational path and taking up an engineering job or whatever.

You're thinking with a rational mindset, but are seeing the world maybe as it was 30 or 40 years ago. Most kids are thinking emotionally.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #87 on: July 27, 2019, 03:31:55 pm »
Then again, a lot of the people wanting to be a doctor or pilot at an early age aren't the right material either. Having unattainable goals is part of life.
 

Online Kjelt

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #88 on: July 27, 2019, 05:07:38 pm »
It can even be dangerous.
Since you only get many views if you show "rare" and dangerous things you get the "Jackass" kind of people doing stunts that even kills some, or you get the influencer types that have to spent soo much money to get another video out that might be interesting.
Lets say as Dave had to buy each piece of TME hi self it woukd bankrupt him  ;)

https://nypost.com/2018/03/03/my-quest-for-instagram-stardom-left-me-in-financial-ruin/
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #89 on: July 27, 2019, 05:17:25 pm »
It can even be dangerous.
Since you only get many views if you show "rare" and dangerous things you get the "Jackass" kind of people doing stunts that even kills some, or you get the influencer types that have to spent soo much money to get another video out that might be interesting.
Lets say as Dave had to buy each piece of TME hi self it woukd bankrupt him  ;)

https://nypost.com/2018/03/03/my-quest-for-instagram-stardom-left-me-in-financial-ruin/
I'm sorry but that has nothing to do with social media and everything with being a good old fashioned idiot. If you borrow yourself into debt to keep up appearances you really needed the lesson you paid for.
 
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Online Kjelt

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #90 on: July 27, 2019, 05:25:39 pm »
Yes but the peer pressure and wanting to be famous makes people do crazy things and social media is a Mega enabler.
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #91 on: July 27, 2019, 05:31:53 pm »
Unfortunately, it seems that young people are vulnerable to conspiracy theories:

There is a problem here in that the connotation and denotation of "conspiracy" have diverged.  "Conspiracy theory" has become a term of derision but for instance was there a conspiracy to justify a war with Iraq or was it that just a conspiracy theory?  One of the results of such fiascos is a loss in trust of sources which should be authoritative.

Another example is the NSA suborning NIST to get compromised encryption standards mandated.  There was a conspiracy there also and now neither can be trusted.  Lookup the definition of conspiracy.

Tell enough lies and the truth becomes lost.  Politicians, lawyers, and managers expect us to trust them?  Ha!
 
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Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #92 on: July 27, 2019, 05:32:44 pm »
Yes but the peer pressure and wanting to be famous makes people do crazy things and social media is a Mega enabler.

Well, peer pressure made kids/teens do pretty stupid stuff back when there was no Internet as well...

But yeah it's probably a big enabler. Then again, computers and Internet make kids stay home a lot more than what they used to, so I don't know what was riskier... kids outside all the time could do pretty wild and stupid stuff too.

Anyway, yeah some behaviors are completely new. No need to look for crazy things either. I think one of the most "lethal" behaviors that are related to social networks is the "selfie" mania. It has injured and killed many people. Not doing anything that crazy, but just not paying enough attention while they were taking a picture...

 

Offline David Hess

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #93 on: July 27, 2019, 05:51:09 pm »
Well, peer pressure made kids/teens do pretty stupid stuff back when there was no Internet as well...

Peer pressure is a real thing which has been studied even beyond more general studies like the Asch Conformity Experiments.  At one point the question came up as to whether a child's personally comes from nature or nurture.  The results were more like 20% genetics, 20% influence from the parents, and 60% from peers.

This actually makes a lot of sense.  A person's peers are their future mates, competitors, allies, and enemies.

It also explains why parents send their children to specific schools for only the social environment and why juvenile prisons cannot rehabilitate while military boot camp at least has a chance.

 

Online james_s

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #94 on: July 27, 2019, 05:57:34 pm »
Unfortunately, it seems that young people are vulnerable to conspiracy theories:

There is a problem here in that the connotation and denotation of "conspiracy" have diverged.  "Conspiracy theory" has become a term of derision but for instance was there a conspiracy to justify a war with Iraq or was it that just a conspiracy theory?  One of the results of such fiascos is a loss in trust of sources which should be authoritative.

Another example is the NSA suborning NIST to get compromised encryption standards mandated.  There was a conspiracy there also and now neither can be trusted.  Lookup the definition of conspiracy.

Tell enough lies and the truth becomes lost.  Politicians, lawyers, and managers expect us to trust them?  Ha!


Conspiracies exist for sure, but most of them involve a small number of people. As more and more people become involved, it becomes exponentially harder to keep it under wraps. When people speak of "conspiracy theories" they are almost always referring to the impossibly convoluted and ridiculously implausible theories like the moon landing being faked and 9/11 being an inside job, that kind of bunk. They all start on the premise of the official explanation, no matter how straightforward it is, being completely and totally false and then set out in search of evidence that supports that view.

In the case of an actual conspiracy, things usually unravel pretty quickly once someone starts investigating, especially if more than 2 or 3 people are involved. A complex conspiracy involving >100 people is virtually impossible to orchestrate because at a very basic level most people do whatever is in their own best interest and most are not very good at keeping their mouth shut. Secret knowledge is a bit like a pressurized gas, it naturally wants to get out and reach equilibrium and the more potential leak points you have, the more likely it is for a leak to occur.
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #95 on: July 27, 2019, 06:14:40 pm »
Conspiracies exist for sure, but most of them involve a small number of people. As more and more people become involved, it becomes exponentially harder to keep it under wraps. When people speak of "conspiracy theories" they are almost always referring to the impossibly convoluted and ridiculously implausible theories like the moon landing being faked and 9/11 being an inside job, that kind of bunk. They all start on the premise of the official explanation, no matter how straightforward it is, being completely and totally false and then set out in search of evidence that supports that view.

In the case of an actual conspiracy, things usually unravel pretty quickly once someone starts investigating, especially if more than 2 or 3 people are involved. A complex conspiracy involving >100 people is virtually impossible to orchestrate because at a very basic level most people do whatever is in their own best interest and most are not very good at keeping their mouth shut. Secret knowledge is a bit like a pressurized gas, it naturally wants to get out and reach equilibrium and the more potential leak points you have, the more likely it is for a leak to occur.

There is an other kind of conspiracy which can involve lots of people.  Let's call it the Thomas Becket conspiracy.  Modern instances can be found in things like "deep state".

A relatively recent example I am familiar with is what happened with the Space Shuttle Challenger.  There was no conspiracy in the normal sense between the White House and NASA to launch Challenger in spite of any danger.  What happened was much more insidious.  There was an *expectation* on the part of NASA management that those were their orders without such orders ever being being given.  This was a fault on NASA's part but it was also a fault on the part of the White House for being oblivious.
 

Offline duak

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #96 on: July 28, 2019, 05:57:15 am »
Peer pressure is a big, and often the biggest contributor in getting adolescents of all ages to do or not do something.  I heard about ten years ago that Florida was having remarkable success in reducing teen smoking rates.  If I remember correctly, the strategy recognized that teen smoking was an act of rebellion.  100% knew that smoking was hazardous but the act bought peer cred.  The ads emphasized things like Big Tobacco was taking advantage of you so to get back at them, don't smoke and stick it to the man.  Here's a link: https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/01/for-teenage-smokers-removing-the-allure-of-the-pack/

I remember a colleague saying if  we want to get people more into technology and engineering, we should have TV programs like Magnum, P. Eng.  If you don't get the joke, it's the Canadian term for Professional Engineer.  I suppose the hero or heroine could go around investigating fatigue failures, transient EMI susceptibility or zero day exploits.  They could drive a fast and expensive but safe and practical vehicle, live in an amazing house and still only charge $200 an hour plus expenses.  Why can't we have an Engineer be the crusading good guy rather than a Lawyer or Private Eye?  There could be just as much drama, excitement and even a love interest or two.
 

Offline donotdespisethesnake

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #97 on: July 28, 2019, 09:41:28 am »
I'm pretty sure its all ages, and all levels of education.  If anything, I would say the older generation are slightly more prone to believe conspiracies, purely because the older we get, the less we remember being wrong, and the more we remember being right, which is why we all tend to get more stubborn as we age.  It also means one spends longer having a belief, and so, makes it harder to change it.

Oh well, if you are "pretty sure" then it must be true, and no evidence is required. You can just substitute you own logical reasoning, and that is enough.

Ironically, that is exactly how people end up believing conspiracy theories.

If belief in untrue theories is on the rise, it is due to the "flattening" effect of the internet. In the past, only authoritative sources were able to publish information to mass audiences. That was no guarantee of truth, but mainly the media were only used to disseminate falsehood that were convenient to the establishment, typically stories designed to persuade the public that a ware was justified, or stories justifying why the the rich should retain their wealth.

Now with platforms like youtube and the web in general, anyone can "publish" information on the same level as the establishment. That means that any wacky theories of no particular agenda are easily spread, e.g. flat Earthers, anti-vaxxing.
Bob
"All you said is just a bunch of opinions."
 
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Online Kjelt

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #98 on: July 28, 2019, 10:55:22 am »
How on earth can you proove a conspiracy THEORY?
Is it not in the term theory itself that it can not be prooven?  :)
 
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Online Buriedcode

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #99 on: July 28, 2019, 12:35:26 pm »
I'm pretty sure its all ages, and all levels of education.  If anything, I would say the older generation are slightly more prone to believe conspiracies, purely because the older we get, the less we remember being wrong, and the more we remember being right, which is why we all tend to get more stubborn as we age.  It also means one spends longer having a belief, and so, makes it harder to change it.

Oh well, if you are "pretty sure" then it must be true, and no evidence is required. You can just substitute you own logical reasoning, and that is enough.

Ironically, that is exactly how people end up believing conspiracy theories.

I do not have sources, as I didn't carry out any surveys, but there are a few articles about it:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-47144738
https://news.uchicago.edu/podcasts/big-brains/science-conspiracy-theories-and-political-polarization-eric-oliver
https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/talking-apes/201801/why-do-people-believe-in-conspiracy-theories
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/09/180925075108.htm
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/science/articles-reports/2019/04/25/which-science-based-conspiracy-theories-do-britons

If belief in untrue theories is on the rise, it is due to the "flattening" effect of the internet. In the past, only authoritative sources were able to publish information to mass audiences. That was no guarantee of truth, but mainly the media were only used to disseminate falsehood that were convenient to the establishment, typically stories designed to persuade the public that a ware was justified, or stories justifying why the the rich should retain their wealth.

Now with platforms like youtube and the web in general, anyone can "publish" information on the same level as the establishment. That means that any wacky theories of no particular agenda are easily spread, e.g. flat Earthers, anti-vaxxing.

Absolutely.  Publishing media is no longer just for the experts in their field.  With so many people posting opinions, viewers can pick and choose who what views they want to hear, so are more likely to only listen to those who align with their own opinions - facts be damned.  And it isn't just conspiracy theories, look at the sheer amount of wonky dietary and health advice, especially on youtube.

My point was not that "mostly" the older generation is prone to this, just that, you you said that young people are especially prone - implying its "mostly" the young, which is isn't.  The above links seem to say it doesn't vary that much across age groups.  I have no doubt that plenty of "young" people believe something some conspiracy theory, but I think the same would be true for the older generation.
 

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #100 on: July 28, 2019, 12:37:17 pm »
How on earth can you proove a conspiracy THEORY?
Is it not in the term theory itself that it can not be prooven?  :)

Indeed, its like calling a UFO an Alien space ship - can't be unknown if you know what it is  :palm:
 
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Online tooki

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #101 on: July 29, 2019, 05:36:40 pm »
How on earth can you proove a conspiracy THEORY?
Is it not in the term theory itself that it can not be prooven?  :)

Indeed, its like calling a UFO an Alien space ship - can't be unknown if you know what it is  :palm:
Or how effective “alternative medicine” does not exist, since it simply becomes “medicine” once efficacy has been proved.
 
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Offline wilfred

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #102 on: September 21, 2019, 06:51:12 am »
I've just learned of a 2017 Russian movie "Salyut-7". Did it get shown in Australia. Anyone here seen it.

There's an English dubbed trailer on YT that looks pretty good. I'd prefer subtitles .

 

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #103 on: September 21, 2019, 08:01:00 am »
Just seen "Salyut-7 (2017)" the other day, didn't know about it until I saw Derek (from Veritasium) mentioning the movie in a video about the bamboozling effect of second axis auto rotation for exactly half a turn.

Very good movie, much better than "Gravity" if you ask me, totally worth the time watching Salyut-7, and it was based on a real story.   :-+

Later edit:
The Salyut-7 trailer above is in English, I hope they didn't voice dubbed the whole movie.  Hearing that English spoken with a Russian accent is horrible.  No way!  The movie should be watch with its original Russian soundtrack, there are English subtitles available.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2019, 08:14:09 am by RoGeorge »
 

Offline wilfred

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #104 on: September 21, 2019, 09:06:03 am »
Just seen "Salyut-7 (2017)" the other day, didn't know about it until I saw Derek (from Veritasium) mentioning the movie in a video about the bamboozling effect of second axis auto rotation for exactly half a turn.

Yeah, that's where I heard about it too.
 

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Re: Why aren't young people interested in Apollo 11?
« Reply #105 on: September 21, 2019, 08:18:26 pm »
Just seen "Salyut-7 (2017)" the other day, didn't know about it until I saw Derek (from Veritasium) mentioning the movie in a video about the bamboozling effect of second axis auto rotation for exactly half a turn.

Very good movie, much better than "Gravity" if you ask me, totally worth the time watching Salyut-7, and it was based on a real story.   :-+
I agree. Its much better than Gravity. It takes obvious liberties with the historic reality, and in the docking sequence they keep saying the station is rotating at 1.5 degrees per second, while we see it spin much faster for dramatic effect. It still has far fewer of those "wait a minute, that wouldn't happen" moments that spoil Gravity.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2019, 08:29:04 pm by coppice »
 


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