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| Why do companies try to take patents out on standard schematics? |
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| Jester:
I guess it depends on what you are designing….. 1) At the better companies that I worked for in the past we had a rigorous design review process. You can’t catch everything but if you design with quality engineers in the first place and then lean on the experienced staff to review we found it saved a lot of time and it was not uncommon to go to production with R1 boards. I don’t think there would be much to gain by having every Tom, Dick and Harry looking at our schematics. 2) Before we put the first resistor down on the schematic, the design specifications were thoroughly thought out and reviewed initially with the sales and marketing group based on feedback from the actual users as to what they wanted or needed and then to the engineering support and then to the engineering design group to figure out the best way to implement. This was a circular process until everyone agreed on all the important aspects, then signed off on the specifications. Then the actual design would begin with a focus on proving the aspects that were new to us, especially if we were not sure we could actually do it. The firm specification was important to prevent having the "isolated" engineers go off on a tangent designing some feature creep aspect during the design phase that they might perceive as important. 3) Again at the good companies I worked at the official engineering drawings including schematics were 100% accurate, if you pulled an official red binder it was correct, all revisions clearly identified. We did not share our design documents with anyone unless it was a requirement of the sale and then the copies distributed were identified so it would be obvious where they originated from with a nasty NDA. I think those companies that did get our schematics kept them under lock and key, at least that’s what they agreed to. Those good companies were really successful, made tons of money and were great to work for. At the companies that sucked that I spent little time at, they did none of the above and they all went broke floundered or got sold off eventually. |
| vk6zgo:
--- Quote from: Jester on November 07, 2021, 09:27:42 pm ---I guess it depends on what you are designing….. 1) At the better companies that I worked for in the past we had a rigorous design review process. You can’t catch everything but if you design with quality engineers in the first place and then lean on the experienced staff to review we found it saved a lot of time and it was not uncommon to go to production with R1 boards. I don’t think there would be much to gain by having every Tom, Dick and Harry looking at our schematics. 2) Before we put the first resistor down on the schematic, the design specifications were thoroughly thought out and reviewed starting with the sales and marketing group. 3) Again at the good companies I worked at the official engineering drawings including schematics were 100% accurate, if you pulled an official red binder it was correct, all revisions clearly identified. We did not share our design documents with anyone unless it was a requirement of the sale and then the copies distributed were identified so it would be obvious where they originated from with a nasty NDA. I think those companies that did get our schematics kept them under lock and key, at least that’s what they agreed to. Those good companies were really successful, made tons of money and were great to work for. At the companies that sucked that I spent little time at they did none of the above, all went broke or got sold off. --- End quote --- The problem is that, if you really had a "ground-breaking" new way of doing things in hardware, which is unlikely in the extreme, there is nothing stopping a competitor from buying the product through an intermediary, & "reverse-engineering" it. In a lot of cases they don't even need to do the latter, as the important thing is more in knowing "What the product does", & its specs, so they can produce an equivalent device, even if it does things totally differently. I would suggest that hardware devices should be at the very bottom of the list for secrecy----the important stuff is usually software, & financial records. As for customers "keeping schematics under lock & key"------- tell that to a harassed Tech tasked with getting the bloody thing going "in the middle of the bush" on the other side of the world. "Sorry Boss, I have to wait till you or the security bloke can open the secure cupboard. Enjoy your 4 hour drive!" |
| Jester:
--- Quote from: vk6zgo on November 08, 2021, 01:05:27 am --- --- Quote from: Jester on November 07, 2021, 09:27:42 pm ---I guess it depends on what you are designing….. 1) At the better companies that I worked for in the past we had a rigorous design review process. You can’t catch everything but if you design with quality engineers in the first place and then lean on the experienced staff to review we found it saved a lot of time and it was not uncommon to go to production with R1 boards. I don’t think there would be much to gain by having every Tom, Dick and Harry looking at our schematics. 2) Before we put the first resistor down on the schematic, the design specifications were thoroughly thought out and reviewed starting with the sales and marketing group. 3) Again at the good companies I worked at the official engineering drawings including schematics were 100% accurate, if you pulled an official red binder it was correct, all revisions clearly identified. We did not share our design documents with anyone unless it was a requirement of the sale and then the copies distributed were identified so it would be obvious where they originated from with a nasty NDA. I think those companies that did get our schematics kept them under lock and key, at least that’s what they agreed to. Those good companies were really successful, made tons of money and were great to work for. At the companies that sucked that I spent little time at they did none of the above, all went broke or got sold off. --- End quote --- The problem is that, if you really had a "ground-breaking" new way of doing things in hardware, which is unlikely in the extreme, there is nothing stopping a competitor from buying the product through an intermediary, & "reverse-engineering" it. In a lot of cases they don't even need to do the latter, as the important thing is more in knowing "What the product does", & its specs, so they can produce an equivalent device, even if it does things totally differently. I would suggest that hardware devices should be at the very bottom of the list for secrecy----the important stuff is usually software, & financial records. As for customers "keeping schematics under lock & key"------- tell that to a harassed Tech tasked with getting the bloody thing going "in the middle of the bush" on the other side of the world. "Sorry Boss, I have to wait till you or the security bloke can open the secure cupboard. Enjoy your 4 hour drive!" --- End quote --- Well the equipment we were selling was portable, and expensive and was not going to be fixed in the bush, everything came back for service if it was required. Like I said I guess it depends on what the system or device is your designing, sure if it's a video monitor or battery charger give them the schematic. The equipment we were producing was quite specialized (low volume) so the sales people were really plugged into their customers. We heard that there were attempts to purchase by unknown 3rd parties and as far as I know they were never successful. Our main competitor eventually simply purchased our company outright, transferred the technology and then shut down the Canadian operation. |
| vk6zgo:
--- Quote from: Jester on November 08, 2021, 01:20:51 am --- --- Quote from: vk6zgo on November 08, 2021, 01:05:27 am --- --- Quote from: Jester on November 07, 2021, 09:27:42 pm ---I guess it depends on what you are designing….. 1) At the better companies that I worked for in the past we had a rigorous design review process. You can’t catch everything but if you design with quality engineers in the first place and then lean on the experienced staff to review we found it saved a lot of time and it was not uncommon to go to production with R1 boards. I don’t think there would be much to gain by having every Tom, Dick and Harry looking at our schematics. 2) Before we put the first resistor down on the schematic, the design specifications were thoroughly thought out and reviewed starting with the sales and marketing group. 3) Again at the good companies I worked at the official engineering drawings including schematics were 100% accurate, if you pulled an official red binder it was correct, all revisions clearly identified. We did not share our design documents with anyone unless it was a requirement of the sale and then the copies distributed were identified so it would be obvious where they originated from with a nasty NDA. I think those companies that did get our schematics kept them under lock and key, at least that’s what they agreed to. Those good companies were really successful, made tons of money and were great to work for. At the companies that sucked that I spent little time at they did none of the above, all went broke or got sold off. --- End quote --- The problem is that, if you really had a "ground-breaking" new way of doing things in hardware, which is unlikely in the extreme, there is nothing stopping a competitor from buying the product through an intermediary, & "reverse-engineering" it. In a lot of cases they don't even need to do the latter, as the important thing is more in knowing "What the product does", & its specs, so they can produce an equivalent device, even if it does things totally differently. I would suggest that hardware devices should be at the very bottom of the list for secrecy----the important stuff is usually software, & financial records. As for customers "keeping schematics under lock & key"------- tell that to a harassed Tech tasked with getting the bloody thing going "in the middle of the bush" on the other side of the world. "Sorry Boss, I have to wait till you or the security bloke can open the secure cupboard. Enjoy your 4 hour drive!" --- End quote --- Well the equipment we were selling was portable, and expensive and was not going to be fixed in the bush, everything came back for service if it was required. Like I said I guess it depends on what the system or device is your designing, sure if it's a video monitor or battery charger give them the schematic. --- End quote --- The stuff I was thinking about were quite some levels of complexity above "monitors or battery chargers", were large & immobile, & cost around the same as a decent sized house, so would they fit your criteria? |
| Jester:
Portable as in carry in your hand and the cost of a modest bungalow. We were doing a show and tell in San Jose with our best client, and we brought quite a few units and they were helping us carry them into the conference hall and the guy that had just placed a large order said to his guy careful that costs more than a Ferarri! |
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