Author Topic: Why can't people just say "sorry, I don't know the answer"?  (Read 6336 times)

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Offline Edison

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Re: Why can't people just say "sorry, I don't know the answer"?
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2020, 09:36:09 pm »
If a question develops that I don't know the answer to in the interview, I have no problem saying - I don't know, I don't know the answer.
But if I'm not explicitly asked, I have no idea why I should intervene in the topic and pat myself on the back with the fact that I don't know the answer, I simply don't interfere in the debate, whether verbal or written, when I have nothing to enrich it. :)
Everything works as the weakest link in the chain
 

Offline Fixpoint

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Re: Why can't people just say "sorry, I don't know the answer"?
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2020, 09:38:44 pm »
People who recently acquired knowledge, in my experience, are more likely to be able to explain it to someone unfamiliar in a way he can grasp quickly. Also, you improve your own understanding of a subject if you explain it to others.

Wait, you are talking about "people who recently acquired knowledge". Note that I was talking about "beginners". You may have acquired knowledge recently, but that does not mean that you are a beginner! You could be an expert who learned something new.

If I really are a beginner, teaching doesn't work because I don't understand the details, don't know the background, cannot explain the WHY (only the WHAT), will probably explain it the wrong way without noticing it, I don't know and don't see the relationships to other things which may be very important, etc etc etc. Bad idea.
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: Why can't people just say "sorry, I don't know the answer"?
« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2020, 09:42:39 pm »
I am guilty  :palm:
When colleagues ask me a question I do not know the correct answer to I do say something.  :-[
I always answer with : "42".
 
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Offline KL27x

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Re: Why can't people just say "sorry, I don't know the answer"?
« Reply #28 on: September 19, 2020, 09:59:03 pm »
Sometimes both parties ARE right. Defining the scope of a question can be quite difficult, bordering on impossible without pages of details. Until that is done, you can't say one view is right vs the other. 
 
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Offline etiTopic starter

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Re: Why can't people just say "sorry, I don't know the answer"?
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2020, 11:11:27 pm »
The guy in my psychology class also said that if there were enough people in one side, the people in the other side would be forced to agree mentally with the other group.

What that guy in my class is saying is that if there are a bigger group to say this is a "6" for example then the group who say this is a "9", the group who say this is a "9" will be forced mentally to agree that this is indeed a "6".

The group who will say "I don't know" maybe too small in size.  So, they will not say anything.

So to summarise the obvious, quiet but confident humility is in short supply.
 
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Offline PlainName

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Re: Why can't people just say "sorry, I don't know the answer"?
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2020, 12:29:01 am »
Quote
simply can't STAND not to be the one shoving their hand in the air, so to speak, saying "ME ME ME MEMEMEMEMEMEEEE! LISTEN TO ME OVER THE OTHERS, I HAVE THE SOLUTION!"

Ever tried re-reading the stuff you write?
 
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Offline Circlotron

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Re: Why can't people just say "sorry, I don't know the answer"?
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2020, 01:09:18 am »
It annoys me when someone posts a question about a difficulty they are having with a circuit or whatever, and someone who is a professional with proven expertise in that particular area presents a solution that they themself have used in the past and it is disregarded and the OP pays more attention to all these hair brained ideas that are presented that are way off track. Nowadays if I know a solution I present it and if they ignore it in favour of unworkable ideas i just let them crash and burn.
 
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Offline Fredderic

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Re: Why can't people just say "sorry, I don't know the answer"?
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2020, 01:26:17 am »
Another element of this question, is stating opinion or supposition as fact.  For far too many people, if they think it, it must be true.

If asked a question, or I think I have valid input, I'll speak up. But I do try to prefix my response with a reasonable assessment of my certainty.  I'll use phrases like, "I think" (some self-assembly was involved), "I'm pretty sure" (a fair bit of self-assembly and/or double-checking was involved), "I believe" (aka "I heard from a reasonably reliable source"), and the likes.

I think "I don't know the answer" is often a cop-out, what they really mean is "I can't be bothered / I don't care".  But if it really is the answer, then you should own it, something like, "That's not really something I've needed to deal with" is a good less "I don't care" type alternative.  Personally, I go for my best guess, prefacing it with something like, "Possibly", or or "I think perhaps maybe" (ie. sprinkle on uncertainties to taste).

What I also hate, is the "you just don't like to be wrong".  Well, duh…  does ANYONE?  I mean, sure, some people just like the sound of their own voice, so any answer is a good answer, to them, but still…  A better question is why don't you like being wrong.  Is it ego, or simply because you'd rather be right.  Unfortunately, it seems to be ego for most people.  In the latter case, however, and this is something I've found a lot of people have a hard time understanding — except those more scientifically inclined — is that if I am proven wrong, that only means I've learnt something new, and that's quite often even more exciting than actually having the right answer (which is just a nice minor affirmation).  So again, eschewing "Sorry, I don't know the answer" in favour of showing interest and offering up what I can, gives me a foot in the door for learning something new, and I always (well, almost always) prefer that over holding my piece and remaining ignorant.  It does seem a distressing minority who hate been wrong (and you should hate being wrong) less than they hate being a fool (not to be confused with being made out to be a fool, but that goes back to ego, and properly stating certainties).

This forum is an example…  If I offer up some advice, like this very post here, it'll automatically subscribe me for further responses.  I put forth my opinion, and now I've got my food in the door for future learnings.  Sure, I can hang around regardless — just click the Notify button — but doesn't that seem a little more, stalkerish?  It's like hanging around near a bunch of people having a conversation, evesdropping…
 
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Offline Fredderic

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Re: Why can't people just say "sorry, I don't know the answer"?
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2020, 01:30:18 am »
It annoys me […] someone who is a professional with proven expertise in that particular area […] and it is disregarded

Problem there, is it can often be difficult for the inexperienced person to know who is experienced, and who is not.  And they're often using enthusiasm, rather than serenity, as their guide.  (After all, they're enthusiastic about getting a response!)
 
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Offline george.b

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Re: Why can't people just say "sorry, I don't know the answer"?
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2020, 01:30:54 am »
Hey, OP, aren't you the guy who went bonkers over Dave having written a book on dating, over the concept of dating and why it was an absolutely abhorrent thing and wouldn't be told otherwise by anybody else, to the point that you said you were going to request the thread to be locked? Yeah, I remember you. Funny to see you here.

Ever tried re-reading the stuff you write?

+1
 

Online BrianHG

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Re: Why can't people just say "sorry, I don't know the answer"?
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2020, 02:00:20 am »


No, no, noooo, it's a lowercase 'g'!!!

(Font selection isn't working... but you get the idea...)
« Last Edit: September 20, 2020, 02:04:29 am by BrianHG »
 
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Offline etiTopic starter

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Re: Why can't people just say "sorry, I don't know the answer"?
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2020, 06:01:28 am »
Hey, OP, aren't you the guy who went bonkers over Dave having written a book on dating, over the concept of dating and why it was an absolutely abhorrent thing and wouldn't be told otherwise by anybody else, to the point that you said you were going to request the thread to be locked? Yeah, I remember you. Funny to see you here.

Ever tried re-reading the stuff you write?

+1

And?
 

Offline bobcat2000

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Re: Why can't people just say "sorry, I don't know the answer"?
« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2020, 06:08:14 am »
This is a guy watching TV.  You can see the TV on the left.  The head and the neck on the right.
 
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Offline etiTopic starter

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Re: Why can't people just say "sorry, I don't know the answer"?
« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2020, 06:10:13 am »
This is a guy watching TV.  You can see the TV on the left.  The head and the neck on the right.
(Attachment Link)

That's quite obscure, and not easily recognisable. Have you taken some drugs?  ;D
 

Offline hans

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Re: Why can't people just say "sorry, I don't know the answer"?
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2020, 07:00:20 am »
I am guilty  :palm:
When colleagues ask me a question I do not know the correct answer to I do say something.  :-[
I always answer with : "42".

For me the default don't-know answer is 3.

Reason for this is obvious. Observe that both π and e round to 3. If our knowledge is only limited to 1 significant number, we can treat these numbers as equal, and therefore conclude π=e=3. This knowledge greatly simplifies the biggest math & physics questions we ever face today. /s

Context: https://twitter.com/memecrashes/status/1193134112753750017

https://twitter.com/memecrashes/status/1075736364883296256
« Last Edit: September 20, 2020, 08:22:59 am by hans »
 
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Offline Simon

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Re: Why can't people just say "sorry, I don't know the answer"?
« Reply #40 on: September 20, 2020, 08:42:22 am »
On top of that, I once read an article written by "some guy" who opined that one of the best thing a beginner can do is "teaching". What!? Yes, it was probably a self-referential thing. Again.
People who recently acquired knowledge, in my experience, are more likely to be able to explain it to someone unfamiliar in a way he can grasp quickly. Also, you improve your own understanding of a subject if you explain it to others.

Often if I want to cement my knowledge of something just learned, or if I'm having difficulty grasping that 'last bit' of something I'm currently learning, I'll give (often out loud) an imaginary lecture to a student(s) on the subject. Getting it into a form suitable for communicating it cogently to someone else (even if imaginary) helps to put all the pieces together in a logical order and structure - it also reveals what you do understand and what you need to work on more.

Very true, I do that too. At work i will explain a problem to a colleague in the hope they could help despite the fact that I know they don't have a clue what I am on about but I find the solution in explaining it to them. I have heard someone acll this talk to thinker or apparently in the software world it is rubberdukking. You tell the rubber duck on your desk.
 

Offline Fixpoint

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Re: Why can't people just say "sorry, I don't know the answer"?
« Reply #41 on: September 20, 2020, 08:54:39 am »
I have heard someone acll this talk to thinker or apparently in the software world it is rubberdukking. You tell the rubber duck on your desk.

Yes, but this has nothing to do with what I said. You are talking about how to arrive at a good understanding of something. I am talking about a beginner "teaching" others which in reality means teaching wrong things because he/she doesn't have a clue of anything AND cannot see it because of a lack of understanding and knowledge!
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Why can't people just say "sorry, I don't know the answer"?
« Reply #42 on: September 20, 2020, 08:56:36 am »
I was replying more to the person that quoted you.
 

Offline Fixpoint

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Re: Why can't people just say "sorry, I don't know the answer"?
« Reply #43 on: September 20, 2020, 09:47:54 am »
I was replying more to the person that quoted you.

Yes, I know, I thought I could subsume my answers just with a quote of you ;)
 

Offline HobGoblyn

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Re: Why can't people just say "sorry, I don't know the answer"?
« Reply #44 on: September 20, 2020, 10:17:47 am »


So, this sometimes leads to extremes like a teenage noob giving a "tutorial" for what she just "learned" a minute ago. In reality, the person didn't understand anything which shows in the tutorial which teaches wrong things. On top of that, I once read an article written by "some guy" who opined that one of the best thing a beginner can do is "teaching". What!? Yes, it was probably a self-referential thing. Again.

While I know exactly the sort of person you are talking about, the guy who taught me most when I was learning UNIX system support, strongly believed that the best way of knowing you understand something is to try teaching it to someone else.

And I believe he was right. I used this method numerous times, just preparing to teach an imaginary person what I’ve learnt, meant it soon became obvious what parts I didn’t properly understand.
 

Online Echo88

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Re: Why can't people just say "sorry, I don't know the answer"?
« Reply #45 on: September 20, 2020, 10:57:32 am »
OP claims (just like the golden ear vinyl audiobrigade) his opinions as facts and says metrics doesnt matter.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/film-colour-reproduction-is-way-better-than-digital/msg3196632/#msg3196632
All while making a post while crying about the unwashed and millenials like a child and how your passing will the leave the world in decay, while the General Chat will only lose a troll.

 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Why can't people just say "sorry, I don't know the answer"?
« Reply #46 on: September 20, 2020, 11:05:35 am »
Why are all your threads rants?
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Why can't people just say "sorry, I don't know the answer"?
« Reply #47 on: September 20, 2020, 11:10:29 am »
Ever tried re-reading the stuff you write?
Funnily enough the result is awfully close to the subject of various rants. Just someone who loves to hear himself talk while almost entirely ignoring any input.
 
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Offline etiTopic starter

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Re: Why can't people just say "sorry, I don't know the answer"?
« Reply #48 on: September 20, 2020, 03:30:49 pm »
Why are all your threads rants?

Focus on being the best person you can, never mind anyone else. Each one of us has a list of personal quirks long enough to keep us occupied with self-improvement for a lifetime. When you are spotless and without fault, you can come and counsel me on how I should act. There's NO shortage of rants on EEVblog, except I don't go around replying to them and pointing out the fault  of others, as you seem intent on doing, to what end, who can know.

Reflect inward, try your best, as we all do, and we all mistakes including yourself, so bear that in mind before becoming too condemning.

Lest you choose to ignore the fact, you seem to have enough aggressive or short tempered posts of your own, at a cursory glance: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?area=showposts;u=134108

Thanks.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2020, 03:36:45 pm by eti »
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Why can't people just say "sorry, I don't know the answer"?
« Reply #49 on: September 20, 2020, 04:03:33 pm »
Lest you choose to ignore the fact, you seem to have enough aggressive or short tempered posts of your own, at a cursory glance: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?area=showposts;u=134108

Thanks.

Yes, he can be a crotchety git at times, but at least has the merit that he can also be occasionally witty and sometimes insightful beyond the bleedin' obvious.

At least he doesn't make the precondition that someone else has to be perfect and fault free before he regards them as worthy of being permitted to indulge in criticism or questioning of any kind. Remember, it's "take the plank out of your own eye first before you take the splinter out of someone else's", not "insist on perfect ocular health in everybody else before even permitting someone else to enquire about your eyesight".

Anyway, you dodged the question. Why is everything you initiate a rant of some sort? Why have you never or seldom, as far as I've noticed, ever started something about electronics per se, but seem to be serial starter of rants and threads that are likely to be contentious?
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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