College group work

[hans]

I wonder what people experiences are with group work projects at college, or even better how to deal with them without becoming burnt out myself.

To get straight my point of view: it sucks.

In the last 5 courses I've taken, 3 of them involved group work sized between 2-4 people. In all courses I've been frustrated with the outcome.

It's often a mix of:

- Students that are completely incapable. Last semester we had to develop a CPU in VHDL (sounds fun) with a guy (ex 'Creative Tech') that barely has done any programming at all.
- Students that regret taking the course, but don't quit because they need the credits.
- Exchange students that don't regret taking the course, but actually don't need finishing it because they're unsure if their credits can be taken over to their other uni.
- Students that despite their bests efforts are incapable of keeping up, because of perhaps social life but also frankly unreasonable time management (like working for 3 days a week alongside a masters)

I think the first 3 is a matter of picking your right poison (or avoiding all of them); but that can be hard when each class is different and you have different people.
Is this really similar to work in real life, which is the often claimed aim/acquired competence with group work? My past experiences tell otherwise. If someone is unmotivated at a job, they get the boot. Moreover I never experienced such close interleaved project work anyways.. I hate it when someone else is watching over my shoulder half of the time.

What I find that is happening I often try to compensate others shortcomings to cover it up in the grade. I'm not in it to get a mere pass, but rather actually learn a subject well when I'm at it and pass with much room to spare. I have given up my turmoil about them also getting the same grade.. they will probably face their shortcomings later in their careers and be on their own to fix them.

Nevertheless it stays especially frustrating.  When others get stuck (or progress is absent despite deadlines) it often means I will jump on it to fix it. For said 3 projects I got the feeling that I've done more than half of the (grind) work, mind you in groups of 3+ people.

It's quite a pity because at an intellectual level I feel like there interesting subjects to tackle, but at this rate I rather only take the math-only courses & exams, and skip all the practical (group) work.

Any tricks in the book to manage this?

Note; talking about a master in EE/Embedded here.

[abraxa]

I have given up my turmoil about them also getting the same grade.. they will probably face their shortcomings later in their careers and be on their own to fix them.

My idealistic self thought the same until I entered the corporate world. Those people do find jobs and create messes that others have to clean up. Or they become managers and earn more than the people who are actually competent. (Side note: I love the concept of unions but this is one of the inherent problems of unionized companies: they can't fire the incompetent ones. Along with higher-than-average wages, this attracts a whole lot of incompetent people who want to earn a lot and not work a lot.)

On topic: can't you choose the people you form a group with? I could and I always chose to either be in a group with like-minded people or with people who actually deserved being pulled up a grade or two. It can happen and helps build a good network

[trophosphere]

Unfortunately, you will still have to work with these types of people - in one form or another - when you get out of college as staying employed and going up on the corporate ladder is not always tied to performance. You need to take charge. What you can do is try to minimize the need for you to take up the slack by keeping them on their toes. Sit down in a group in the beginning and establish what is to be expected and set individual deadlines. Be blunt and upfront. If things are falling behind and cannot be rectified despite repeated attempts then at least you will have some time before the project deadline to act accordingly.

[hans]

I have given up my turmoil about them also getting the same grade.. they will probably face their shortcomings later in their careers and be on their own to fix them.

On topic: can't you choose the people you form a group with? I could and I always chose to either be in a group with like-minded people or with people who actually deserved being pulled up a grade or two. It can happen and helps build a good network

Yes, I can, and certainly some folks are entering a blacklist now.
Also would like to add that I joined this uni only this year, after doing my bachelor somewhere else. Thus it seems like most people that are here for longer have already formed groups with their bachelor class mates. Most projects are in groups of 2-3, so I think these groups are already formed before being asked.

much.

Unfortunately, you will still have to work with these types of people - in one form or another - when you get out of college as staying employed and going up on the corporate ladder is not always tied to performance. You need to take charge. What you can do is try to minimize the need for you to take up the slack by keeping them on their toes. Sit down in a group in the beginning and establish what is to be expected and set individual deadlines. Be blunt and upfront. If things are falling behind and cannot be rectified despite repeated attempts then at least you will have some time before the project deadline to act accordingly.

Ah yes, of course dealing is the point. I'm fully conscious that is perhaps even more valuable than the degree
But I'm not sure if being blunt is what I'm looking for. I've heard this sort of mentality before of how you should basically be an asshole 9at times) at work to stand your ground, though I'm not convinced. In my point of view that's more about burning bridges than being constructive.

[Neganur]

[...]You need to take charge. What you can do is try to minimize the need for you to take up the slack by keeping them on their toes. Sit down in a group in the beginning and establish what is to be expected and set individual deadlines. Be blunt and upfront. [...]

This may lead to "who put you in charge...?"-questions in my experience (there is no point in arguing with this type of guy...). If you're really good, you can recognize what your involuntary teammates are good at and what they want to do. If they're completely unwilling let them fail at the task that was assigned to them and inform the lecturer that said member did not contribute to the outcome.

Most of the times lecturers do acknowledge this. If they don't, there isn't much you can do about it. If you want the good grade you have to put in the work yourself.

As much as I dislike it sometimes, these group works are also meant to teach you the not so nice sides of it and how to properly deal with i t(or how to cope with it).

[Red Squirrel]

I never really hated group projects, but did prefer alone projects.  Usually we'd all try to make the best of it and try to distribute the work fairly and agree on how we do stuff etc.  In some cases it was even fun as we'd usually add some humor aspect to it which I found made it way more fun, and we even could not wait to present it because of some funny part we added, or something.

Some projects we had a choice if we wanted to be in groups or alone, so usually I'd choose to go alone though.