General > General Technical Chat
Why do commercials sound so blasted loud?
MrMobodies:
When I started to use Wintv an Avertv as my television I just pressed M on the keyboard to mute the adverts when they came on due to how loud they were becoming.
EPAIII:
I guess I was too brief in that answer. But then, I am usually too verbose.
And remember the title of this thread. It is not talking about some compression for movies. It is talking about loud commercials. And that generally means loud as compared to the programs they appear in.
As I tried to say, there is more than one technique that is used when processing the audio. Compression is ONLY ONE OF THEM, but is is the one that is most responsible for the high perceived loudness of things like commercials. And it is deliberately used to make them loud.
With an almost infinite mix of compression with the other techniques that are used in the various steps that an audio track must take to make it from a recording studio to your ears, is is very difficult to design a circuit or computer algorithm that will produce the result that is desired here. Compression is used in all of them and more compression will only make things worse. One important element that would be at the heart of any such device would be one which would UN-COMPRESS the audio. I know that sounds strange, but it is true.
The trouble starts after it is un-compressed as it then needs to be set to the correct level for what the particular program calls for. But, no. It starts with that unknown mix of other techniques that were applied AFTER the original compression. If you don't undo them first, then un-compressing will have unknown results. But to undo them, you need to know what they were and how much of each was applied.
And some techniques may have been applied before compression. Undoing them first would be exactly wrong, even if you exactly how to do that.
Sure, you can use more compression to make the audio levels more consistent. But I fear even the average listener will not like the final result. And they may not be able to put their hand on exactly what it is. Part of what it is would be that the dynamic range is not right. Not in the sense that it does not match the original dynamic range, but in the sense that the two would not track. A classical music person would probably be best able to describe it. A rock music lover would probably say it is not loud enough.
Some digital editing software will examine an entire audio track and then apply a level algorithm to the entire track. With fast computers, this can be done in a fraction of the play time and can work fairly well. But it doesn't really undo what has been done before. It just makes things more or less level. And few TV viewers would be willing to wait for one or several minutes for this process to take place.
I am sure there will be comments saying that it is not that complicated. But it really is. And the lack of this kind of feature in most TVs and radios and other consumer audio devices is a real strong argument for what I am saying. Sure, there are some with automatic circuits of one kind or another. But they are not very universal. And they probably are not all that much alike in their operation and results.
And back to loud commercials. Commercials are inserted before, after, and in breaks in programs. NONE of the above is going to be of any use when a randomly selected, loud commercial is suddenly placed in the middle of a quiet program. Just crank any loud audio down. But then, what about a war movie? How does the system know what is movie and what is commercial?
--- Quote from: james_s on November 24, 2021, 09:15:32 pm ---
--- Quote from: ejeffrey on November 24, 2021, 05:51:02 pm ---
--- Quote from: EPAIII on November 24, 2021, 10:29:05 am ---Compression is the cause of the problem. It is going to be hard to use it as a cure.
--- Quote from: ejeffrey on November 19, 2021, 01:59:33 am ---Many AV receivers have adjustable dynamic range compression for exactly that reason.
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
That's not what I was responding to. I was talking about movies with extremely high dynamic range where a little bit of compression can make it more listenable.
--- End quote ---
That's precisely what the adjustable compression on the receivers he's talking about is there to help with.
--- End quote ---
tom66:
--- Quote from: nctnico on November 18, 2021, 11:28:45 pm ---Same here. I've given up on regular TV many years ago, might even be a decade. Just couldn't stand the stupid commercials any longer. TV is a dead medium as far as I'm concerned.
--- End quote ---
Same. Won't even watch streaming platforms with ads, and besides a few websites (EEVblog, The Register, for instance) I block ads. Those allowed sites are actually generally quite alright with the level of advertisement, it's relevant and not particularly obtrusive.
eti:
[Context: streaming programmes, after the fact]
Four or so years ago, I said "Hello Pi-Hole" and "Good bye ads" (for the most part).
My Pi-Hole (a system you install on a Raspberry Pi) blocks ALL ads on UK ITV, CH4, CH5 and a few more I am sure. I *NEVER* see ads on those channels. For YouTube I use the "Smart Tube Next" app on my Fire TV & generic Android box, and on LG I use "Ad-free YouTube" on a rooted LG 4K TV. Pi-Hole stopped being able to block YT ads a year so ago, since Google made the domains that serve ads, the same as the content-serving ones. No matter, I live ad-free.
The one thing that reminds me how ghastly ads are, is when I use YouTube on my iPhone or Android phone, and the DNS-level block is circumvented by them, somehow - that's fine - I don't *watch* the videos on those, I merely "cue them up" and then cast them to "Smart Tube Next" or to the LG "Ad-free YouTube" via the cast mechanism on the mobile apps. Every time I see a stream of OBNOXIOUS, "woke" garbage ads (the last one I saw was the DISGUSTING "manscaped" - yuck!!!) it only serves to reinforce my resolve as to why I shall ALWAYS block ads.
They are cheeky too, and get MANY "sucks of the sav" as they say - you wait for the ads to end, and skip forward **just a few seconds** - AND THE ADS PLAY ALL OVER AGAIN!!!!! |O It's almost as if I can hear a voice saying "Oh, you want to skip a few seconds? That'll cost you another few of our ads!"
Someone, someday - someone with an ACTUAL BRAIN THAT FUNCTIONS, in marketing, will find a better way for companies to fund themselves than to steal our time. In the UK, when CH4 or CH5 says "Programme length: 1hr" it's actually 45-47 mins, as the rest is YOUR TIME they STEAL from you.
Having said this, I am VERY grateful not to be living in America, where they are allowed to plaster HUGE LOWER THIRD AD BANNERS across the screen - not only that, but they do not fade in subtly, they animatedly BOUNCE AND SCROLL, telling you about the next TV show coming up (attention-deficit society!) - SOME UK channels do this, but it's quite rare (We Brits are more reserved and have good taste, you see ;D )
Bud:
And why you watch TV in the first place?
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