Author Topic: Why do people assume if youre a girl that you don't understand electronics?  (Read 14812 times)

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Offline Beamin

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I'm sure many of you here can relate to that...  :-DD

But I noticed when I walk into places like micro center and the sales associate calls me miss he often just talks to me like I have no clue as to what I am doing verse a year a go when I walking there dressed like a guy; when I was a guy, they were more help full but still incompetent as to the knowledge of their products. Best part is they wont say "I don't know I have never used an 'Are duo'". Rather its like they glimpse some thing off the side of the box and say "Yea it does a microcontroller and should work with the components you bought if you buy extra solder and wire ties and this crimping tool for the wire wrap and electrical tape"  |O. Do they have some personal prejudice against pink platform heels? Actually its better this way because they leave me alone since any questions they answer are just bull shit upselling when they have no idea what you are doing. Like "might want to add a raspberry PI to that Arduino so you can interface it through this shield (shield was some weather station thing and not for the Pi at all)  :palm: "OK thanks I'm buying this for my boy friend and I wish he was here he could learn a lot from you.!" The boy friend comment usually makes them lose all interest and go away quickly. Other wise they fallow me around the store like little puppy dogs with Asperger's being awkward at female male mating rituals. Grow some muscles and about 6" taller get a real job and we can talk but until then enjoy you world of Warcraft.

You know what I mean...?  ;D

Have you ever had you shit fucked up by listening to them? Or sent your wife in only to find they sold her all kinds of unnecessary shit?

Or how about the "geek squad" where some pimply 19 yr old doesn't know the difference in RAM and SSD hard drive. Oh but he assured me he could turn my refund into a repair and send my week old lap top out in working order! PASS just give me my money back.
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Offline Ampera

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Considering I am a man (at least for the moment) I'm not able to directly relate, but I can understand why people might do it.

It is, sad or not, a fact that there are less women in STEM, so normally people running shops try to cater to women as lower experiences just from statistics. It might be sad, and I personally would never assume it, but I can understand a shopkeeper's inclination to try to best guess someone's skill level to help drive a sale.

Perhaps an idea is to be overly specific and complicated about what you want from a shop to make it perfectly clear that you know your shit, and you don't need them to baby you. As someone who is quite young, I often get the same treatment, if not worse.

I wouldn't take it personal or offensively, but that's just me. I don't tend to blow things out of proportion that often. Life's too short.

One advantage of being someone who gets underestimated is that you can often get overblown praise for less work. Shitty C programs that I'm not that impressed with drives people nuts because a 16 year old is working with semi-complicated computer science on his own initiative. Then, when you really do something amazing, the cascade of impressed people is often faster and bigger.

Life is playing the cards your dealt. You can complain about what you have, but it's not changing, so you need to know how to use the advantages you have to put you above everybody else. Often the most resourceful person wins.
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Online rsjsouza

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I was going to say a similar thing as TwoOfFive, adding that the people working the floor of these stores may not have a broad life experience. The chances that one uses pre-conceived notions of femininity is very high and unfortunately you have to pretty much take the high ground all the time. That and the fact that, given the demographics of people in STEM, probably makes them right more often than not.

At a reduced severity when compared to your case, a similar scenario happens when people find out I was born in a foreign country; a lot of pre-conceived notions are thrown at me and I try to take everything with an understanding mindset - in my case most of the times people mean well and simply lack the knowledge.
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Offline Beamin

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Considering I am a man (at least for the moment) I'm not able to directly relate, but I can understand why people might do it.

It is, sad or not, a fact that there are less women in STEM, so normally people running shops try to cater to women as lower experiences just from statistics. It might be sad, and I personally would never assume it, but I can understand a shopkeeper's inclination to try to best guess someone's skill level to help drive a sale.

Perhaps an idea is to be overly specific and complicated about what you want from a shop to make it perfectly clear that you know your shit, and you don't need them to baby you. As someone who is quite young, I often get the same treatment, if not worse.

I wouldn't take it personal or offensively, but that's just me. I don't tend to blow things out of proportion that often. Life's too short.

One advantage of being someone who gets underestimated is that you can often get overblown praise for less work. Shitty C programs that I'm not that impressed with drives people nuts because a 16 year old is working with semi-complicated computer science on his own initiative. Then, when you really do something amazing, the cascade of impressed people is often faster and bigger.

Life is playing the cards your dealt. You can complain about what you have, but it's not changing, so you need to know how to use the advantages you have to put you above everybody else. Often the most resourceful person wins.

True when I was younger I did that a lot. Of if I was just being lazy I perform the task adequately. Or just feign ignorance to get out of things. Maybe I should be a femminazi! Just kidding those women need to know their place is in the kitchen. That's where my BF keeps my ass. :) After I make him dinner then I "satisfy him ;) " properly he lets me play with my toys. Some times he will buy me new ones too if I do a good enough job! I wish I lived in 1950's America. That's why people are not happy now adays the wife is all stressed with work and can't properly care for her husband's needs which come first to the women's..
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Offline Ampera

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While I admire your dedication to your opinion, keep in mind the same crime of SJWs and Feminazis who try to dismantle and ostracize people who enjoy such lifestyles is being committed by you yourself.
People, focusing on women in this case, need to have the right to life their life the way they want. The world will never be free of assumptions, so I believe people need to be able to deal with them, but there are many women who I believe would absolutely not be happy in the kitchen.

Live the life you want, if you can live it, but don't restrict people of the same goal. In the 1950's there would have been no such thing as a woman taken seriously in EE. Even the Apollo program that ran on the backs of women in assembly and computation, gave them no respect for their work until much later. You can believe that to be fine, and I can respect that, but there is a line to be drawn in insisting that is how the world should work above freedoms other people like.

You and I live in a first world where people are largely given the freedom to live the lives they wish to, and so long as we can keep that and respect that in whatever way doesn't hurt other people, we can remain free.
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Online james_s

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For me was a learned experience, I found out at a young age that very, very few women seemed to be interested in tech. In fact I recall up through highschool and beyond a significant degree of hostility from girls toward those of us perceived to be nerds or geeks. Being into engineering just wasn't cool back then and learning when to shut up about it and form (or feign) an interest in "normal" stuff like music or sports greatly improved my relations with the other sex.

Because of that experience, I'm surprised whenever I encounter a woman who is into engineering for the same reason that I'm surprised when I'm doing laundry and find a $20 bill in a pocket, because most of the time that's not the case. These days it seems STEM is losing its stigma and more women are getting into it, I wish I could say the same about the frequency I find $20 bills.

Regarding 1950s America, remember that it was a very hostile place for transgendered people, not to mention we still had segregation, most women didn't have careers to speak of, even women voting was still a fairly new thing.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 09:24:10 pm by james_s »
 

Offline Beamin

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While I admire your dedication to your opinion, keep in mind the same crime of SJWs and Feminazis who try to dismantle and ostracize people who enjoy such lifestyles is being committed by you yourself.
People, focusing on women in this case, need to have the right to life their life the way they want. The world will never be free of assumptions, so I believe people need to be able to deal with them, but there are many women who I believe would absolutely not be happy in the kitchen.

Live the life you want, if you can live it, but don't restrict people of the same goal. In the 1950's there would have been no such thing as a woman taken seriously in EE. Even the Apollo program that ran on the backs of women in assembly and computation, gave them no respect for their work until much later. You can believe that to be fine, and I can respect that, but there is a line to be drawn in insisting that is how the world should work above freedoms other people like.

You and I live in a first world where people are largely given the freedom to live the lives they wish to, and so long as we can keep that and respect that in whatever way doesn't hurt other people, we can remain free.

I am not stopping them but I'm just saying that's the role I'm happiest fulfilling in his house. I would be nothing without a strong husband just a lost soul with no one to please and get rewarded. Wouldn't you want a wife whos sole desire is to please pleasure and attended to you? Or a wife that's always barking orders and who hyphenates her last name to show you that shes only half your wife every time you say or write her name. She has her own bank account nd you have yours and contracts dictate your "love". I would rather live in my husbands house and let him handle all that. I would find that insulting and wonder the purpose of a marriage like that. Listening to your husband is the easiest part why do so many women have a problem with that? A man in a marriage like that isn't a strong man or a good leader. Its more like a business partnership.
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Offline Ampera

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If I were to ever marry, I would want a partner who is as equal in the relationship as I am. I would want a friend, not a subordinate or a higher figure. There can be middle ground where we share aspects of our lives without bearing over each other in any way.

Personally, I am an introvert, and many EEs tend to be. I tend to enjoy more electronic forms of interaction, and while I can definitely engage in real life interaction, I don't see myself directly seeking a partner. If I find someone that I believe would make it worthwhile, it will happen. If I don't it won't. It's something I don't want to force, and need to have happen organically.

My personal life is complicated beyond the degree I am willing to communicate intricate details about it to just anyone, at least for the time being. Take that as you will. I don't mind talking about it, but there are just things that I can't specifically go into.

I think you fall into a bit of a fallacy in which you view others as only capable of the dynamics you see yourself capable of. What I mean by that is that some people don't need a Caesar nor a servant. They are happy living lives within their own wants, but as a level of equality instead of conforming to a specific higher status.

As for james_s's statement about 1950's America, it was a different time with different overreaching norms. We scoff at them today, but they were the case then. It was a hostile place for many types of people in the first American/European world. As the trend goes, the world becomes a nicer place as time goes on. Let's hope we just don't overrun the mark with some ideas and at some day in the future, hopefully one in our lifetimes, we can find a world where at least within ourselves, the issues of gender, colour, and status are all but distant memories to discard as we have done so much else.
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Online james_s

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That's pretty much where I am. My partner and I are about as equal as possible, a relationship is as much a business partnership and friendship as anything else. She has her hobbies and I have mine, she has little interest in my electronics and I have little interest in her quilting but there is common ground on other activities. It works out well, even though I enjoy her companionship I also value time spent alone, absorbed in my own projects or hanging out with my guy friends. We have no rigid role assignments, I just do most of the stuff I'm better at while she does most of the stuff she's better at.
 
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Offline Ampera

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That's pretty much where I am. My partner and I are about as equal as possible, a relationship is as much a business partnership and friendship as anything else. She has her hobbies and I have mine, she has little interest in my electronics and I have little interest in her quilting but there is common ground on other activities. It works out well, even though I enjoy her companionship I also value time spent alone, absorbed in my own projects or hanging out with my guy friends. We have no rigid role assignments, I just do most of the stuff I'm better at while she does most of the stuff she's better at.

I'd want someone who was very similar to me. I almost see it as being a requirement. Some people can handle and even love the diversity in their relationship, but it would have to be someone that is compatible with me as I am with myself. If I can never find someone like that, so be it, but it's my requirement.
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Online Marco

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Bayesian optimization, they're salesmen with little product knowledge ... their schtick and the people they use it on is optimized for that. I'm sure they'll target old people the same way. They might have some unjustified preconceptions, but the ones paid on commission have a lot of incentive to optimize their models.
 
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Offline GreyWoolfe

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I am not stopping them but I'm just saying that's the role I'm happiest fulfilling in his house. I would be nothing without a strong husband just a lost soul with no one to please and get rewarded. Wouldn't you want a wife whos sole desire is to please pleasure and attended to you? Or a wife that's always barking orders and who hyphenates her last name to show you that shes only half your wife every time you say or write her name. She has her own bank account nd you have yours and contracts dictate your "love". I would rather live in my husbands house and let him handle all that. I would find that insulting and wonder the purpose of a marriage like that. Listening to your husband is the easiest part why do so many women have a problem with that? A man in a marriage like that isn't a strong man or a good leader. Its more like a business partnership.

Beamin, I absolutely would not want a wife like you.  I mean no insult, but I did have one like you.  Life was great until life threw me a serious curve ball and 3 days before our 9th anniversary, she threw me out and took up with the asshat that she was cheating on me with.  All because I could not, at that point, provide the security she wanted.  Fast forward 14 years and I spent most of them not even dating as I was done with women and I was going to stay a confirmed bachelor, enjoying my friends and my ham radio hobby.  I ended up getting married again to a woman who didn't need to be married to me but who wanted to be married to me.  At one point, I went through a 4 year bout of severe depression that seriously rocked our marriage.  Unlike the first one, she didn't run away when things were tough and those tough times lasted a total of 6 years.  Now, our marriage is stronger than ever.  There is no subservience on her part nor would I want it that way.  We are 100% committed to each other and taking care of each other.  We cook/clean together, be domestic together.  As far as intimacy, her needs are taken care of first, which she is fully into, though I never object if she wants to go cowgirl, which is quite frequent! >:D  Everything is in our names because we wanted it that way.  I didn't ask her to take my last name, that was her choice. We just celebrated 13 years last month and things just keep getting better every day because we are fully and equally committed to each other.  At the risk of giving offense to a certain group of people, I am truly blessed, grateful and thankful to have my wife at my side, not in front of me or in back of me, next to me where she belongs.

The point I am getting to with my rambling, no one can make you happy.  Only you can make you happy.  Others can contribute but the bottom line, your happiness in on you.  Don't rely on pleasing others to get your own pleasure, it won't work.  You won't be a lost soul without a strong husband but don't doubt for a minute that he can't be a lost soul without a strong you.  Married or not, if you have a life partner, you should both be in it 100% equally.  There is not top or bottom unless that is your thing.   By the way, I bought her the house when we were engaged. ;D
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Online NiHaoMike

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There's also the stereotype that women are weak. A friend of mine who used to do HVAC service made quite a scene at a HVAC parts store once when she entered the store carrying a broken down central A/C compressor (typically 50-70lbs) and setting it on the counter in order to get the right replacement. Although to be fair, very few have ever seen a young girl doing HVAC work.

And then there's Rinoa Super-Genius who is known around here as one of the strongest women who's into electronics.
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Offline Bud

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Answering the original question why- because 99.999% of girls do not understand electronics.
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Offline John B

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I am not stopping them but I'm just saying that's the role I'm happiest fulfilling in his house. I would be nothing without a strong husband just a lost soul with no one to please and get rewarded. Wouldn't you want a wife whos sole desire is to please pleasure and attended to you?

Sounds clingy AF TBH.

Or a wife that's always barking orders and who hyphenates her last name to show you that shes only half your wife every time you say or write her name. She has her own bank account nd you have yours and contracts dictate your "love".

Or options 3 through infinity. People come in all varieties that don't fit on a Feminist-chauvinist to tradcon spectrum. But I get the impetus behind what you're doing. Some women use the carrot, some use the stick.
 

Offline @rt

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Is this Fran?
I can’t say I’ve had the same experience as both male & female :D

I expect a sales assistant to know what things are called, know where they are, and ring up a total on a register. That’s all.
If they were EEs they wouldn’t be sales assistants.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2018, 03:46:46 am by @rt »
 

Offline Rerouter

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Another male chiming in.

I cannot easily say how my approach would be veiwed from the outside, but when someone asks me for help, and I lack any kind of baseline of there knowledge, I tend to begin with the most common concepts of the topic, e.g. for a computer, is it a PC or a Mac?

Generally there reply clues me in to what they know, and i can expand from there on a common denominator level of knowledge, howevere I suspect this may sometimes come across condesending.

For me, there was no girls in the electronics class through my high school, and 3 in engineering, I would sit near them maimly because in my head was the thought "help them so they stay", but only when they asked.
 

Offline TerraHertz

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Because people take the shortcut of acting on the basis of experienced past averages, rather than putting potentially a lot of effort into evaluating each new situation from scratch. Aka they apply stereotypes.

And as Bud mentioned, 99.999% of girls do not understand electronics. Sad but true.

Stereotyping is a useful tool. It's only real problem arises when one refuses to modify behavior in specific instances when it becomes clear the stereotype does not apply. Or worse, deliberately avoiding any possibility of discovering it does not apply.

Beamin, have you considered wearing a lapel badge that says "I'm an engineer'. Hold my beer." Or something like that.
Cut out that initial interval of irritating misconception.
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Offline jpanhalt

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I think you are imagining something that doesn't exist.  Maybe it is just your own identity insecurity.

I live in an area where there is both a MicroCenter and Best Buy within a few blocks of each other.   I usually go to MicroCenter and the very best help there is (actually was*) a woman.  On occasion, if she wasn't there, I would find out when she would be and return then. 

*I had been her regular client of hers for almost 20 years.  On a visit late last year, I asked for her and learned that she had had a serious accident and could no longer work. 
 

Offline amyk

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It seems to be a largely western phenomenon. In former USSR and China today, female EEs are not unusual.
 
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Online NiHaoMike

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It seems to be a largely western phenomenon. In former USSR and China today, female EEs are not unusual.
In the videos where Naomi Wu was shopping for parts for her projects, she seemed to be regarded as "just another person", except obviously by those who recognized her as a celebrity. Would be interesting to see if other female engineers there are treated the same way.
And as Bud mentioned, 99.999% of girls do not understand electronics. Sad but true.
Very location dependent - in Northern California, the percentage of "tech illiterate" of either gender would be way lower.

It's also worth noting that smart hobbyists (in the US, at least) rarely buy electronics from physical stores nowadays because online is usually cheaper. The few times I do go to a store for those sorts of stuff are because a sale makes the items cheaper than online, I needed those items in a hurry, or I actually needed to see the items in detail to check if they're really the right ones.

The one time I went to Walmart to get some cheap smartphones (on sale), I was buying three and the cashier was questioning why because I looked too young to have a child old enough to use a smartphone. My intent was to use them for mining, but since I didn't want to reveal that ("experimental" altcoin quickly ramping in profitability), I simply answered by saying that I'm a programmer and that I use the phones to run apps.
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Offline JPortici

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Is this Fran?
I can’t say I’ve had the same experience as both male & female :D

I expect a sales assistant to know what things are called, know where they are, and ring up a total on a register. That’s all.
If they were EEs they wouldn’t be sales assistants.

when i did that job i still was an Electronics Enthusiast :P as many others i knew.
 

Offline @rt

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Electronics enthusiasts are plenty at our local retail (Jaycar Australia), but can’t necessarily work in EE, or any related discipline.

Jaycar Electronics, also being Dave’s local electronics retail with a store front, I vote Dave make a video investigating this phenomenon :D

 

Offline TerraHertz

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Dave will look pretty funny in drag.
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Offline Brumby

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Oh - you had to go there.   :palm:

There's an image of which I hope to never be reminded.   :scared:
 


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