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| Why do "programmers" call themselves... "engineers"?! |
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| Mr. Scram:
--- Quote from: tggzzz on November 16, 2019, 09:49:22 pm ---It is clear you have absolutely zero understanding of what microcode Is and isn't. I suggest you look at the AMD 2900 series and Intel 3000 series processors, and try to understand how to use them. Start by telling us whether they are 2/4/8/16/32/64 bit processors. Hint: I once designed a 2900 based machine that wasn't a processor in any conventional sense - it had zero RAM. As for FSMs, what makes you think they are a software or electronic artifact? I once wrote a report on whether an FSM implemented in logic running at 4000psi should be replaced by a micro. Conclusion: no. --- End quote --- Is report writing engineering? |
| SiliconWizard:
--- Quote from: Nominal Animal on November 16, 2019, 10:32:43 pm --- --- Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 16, 2019, 09:17:31 pm ---What we commonly call "software engineering" these days has not much to do with what you just said above. --- End quote --- Perhaps; I'm just a stickler on labels, and refuse to call script-kiddies "programmers", or "contractors" substituting toilet paper for wall insulation "professional builders". (...) --- End quote --- Oh, I agree with the above, but just OTOH to make things clear: just because we are debating whether software engineering is really engineering (again, something that has been debated for decades, nothing new or particularly horrible to discuss), doesn't mean that software developers are "less" than engineers in general (some can be, but some "engineers" can be real bad too). We're not questioning the value of people writing software. Just whether engineering is the right term to describe software development, why, and what the consequences can or can't be. As I said above, I personally think "software engineering", in the past decades it has been called so, has focused too much on project management methods and maybe not enough on the fundamentals, which has led to much more repeatable software development processes, and has made it easier to hire and integrate software developers in teams, but has not necessarily hugely improved software quality all in all. |
| Cerebus:
--- Quote from: Mr. Scram on November 16, 2019, 10:40:49 pm ---Is report writing engineering? --- End quote --- Only if you do it in crayon. :) |
| tggzzz:
--- Quote from: Mr. Scram on November 16, 2019, 10:40:49 pm --- --- Quote from: tggzzz on November 16, 2019, 09:49:22 pm ---It is clear you have absolutely zero understanding of what microcode Is and isn't. I suggest you look at the AMD 2900 series and Intel 3000 series processors, and try to understand how to use them. Start by telling us whether they are 2/4/8/16/32/64 bit processors. Hint: I once designed a 2900 based machine that wasn't a processor in any conventional sense - it had zero RAM. As for FSMs, what makes you think they are a software or electronic artifact? I once wrote a report on whether an FSM implemented in logic running at 4000psi should be replaced by a micro. Conclusion: no. --- End quote --- Is report writing engineering? --- End quote --- It is frequently the deliverable result arising from engineering judgement. |
| Nominal Animal:
--- Quote from: SiliconWizard on November 16, 2019, 10:43:05 pm ---As I said above, I personally think "software engineering", in the past decades it has been called so, has focused too much on project management methods and maybe not enough on the fundamentals, which has led to much more repeatable software development processes, and has made it easier to hire and integrate software developers in teams, but has not necessarily hugely improved software quality all in all. --- End quote --- True. I do not think that most software development can be called software engineering, or that most programmers are software engineers, simply because they do not apply engineering principles in the development work; that is, that developers don't apply engineering principles to their work, only to their process. (Which, I think, is basically what you are saying above.) Just like Scram's question above, "Is report writing engineering?", the devil is in the detail: it depends on how you construct the content. If you wing it, or "I know this stuff like the back of my hands", no, it isn't engineering, it is just writing out ones understanding. You do not apply engineering principles when writing. But, to find out what you need to express, and how to express it, you can apply engineering principles. I often do, many don't; but like I said, I do not consider myself an engineer. |
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