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| Why do "programmers" call themselves... "engineers"?! |
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| jadew:
--- Quote from: eti on November 17, 2019, 05:03:36 am --- --- Quote from: jadew on November 17, 2019, 04:36:01 am --- --- Quote from: eti on November 16, 2019, 04:26:30 am ---Let me ask this: > Why do "programmers" get referred to as "coders" in many instances? (that's like calling a poet, a "pen mover" - it very much undermines their profession, and reduces them to the lowest common denominator... I think... I can't articulate what I mean) > Why do "programmers" refer to themselves as that, when in many cases they have ZERO knowledge of the hardware which is abstracted away from them, 5 layers down at bare metal level, and ALL they know how to do is drag and drop boilerplate templates which call APIs...? > THE most irksome of all, is the sheer delusion that seems to have swept across Silicon Valley & slowly become accepted, is that "programmers" are... ENGINEERS! :-// Please read these articles; the former is well written, and also the latter, but I tend to lean toward the wording of the former, more, not sure why. Bottom line, as I see it, is this: ++ You can't grab a block of binary, sand the rust off it, throw it in a lathe and machine it into a part. ++ You can't expect to call yourself an "engineer" when the fundamental concepts (text) with which you fiddle, all day long, can be (and IS) changed on the whim of some "framework" manager, overnight. Imagine if the mass of a block of lead could be arbitrarily edited to some variable, in a second. Imagine if constants and measurements in physics could be changed to fit some formula, "just because". I am not annoyed, nor even slightly angered, or in any way fazed by the term "engineer" used to refer to code monkeys, but many others may be, and to be frank, I find it a laughably naive term to use, based on the fact that people hearing you say "I am an engineer" when what you do is fiddle with lines of text, laughable and quite insane. Yes, I know software CONTROLS things in the physical realm which are engineered, but that doesn't make the software author an engineer. Ever. Here's the articles: > https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/11/programmers-should-not-call-themselves-engineers/414271/ > http://nic.ferrier.me.uk/blog/2013_04/you-are-not-an-engineer --- End quote --- That's a lot of butthurt... Leaving aside the discussion about how the term "engineer" is largely meaningless anyway when it comes to communicating your ability to do something, why do you care about the nomenclature used in a different field of work? What kind of turf are you trying to protect? Also, it would help if you defined "engineering". --- End quote --- I tend not to want to engage people who use daft "internet slang", especially in a passive-aggressive tone. Please be respectful and mature, thanks. --- End quote --- Those are big words for someone who insulted an entire profession by calling them "code monkeys". Nice way to avoid the questions tho. |
| james_s:
Looks like just another clueless person who stumbled in here with a chip on their shoulder. |
| Nominal Animal:
--- Quote from: eti on November 17, 2019, 02:52:27 am ---Newsflash! I've just found out that I am a solicitor, and didn't even know so, by virtue of having read the Microsoft Windows EULA, and finding errors in it, and proposing to myself how to fix them. I billed myself £60 per hour for having read & analysed it, which I duly paid myself, and then went to make a cuppa coffee. --- End quote --- No, that's completely different to what I described. The entire crux is in how you found the errors. Even then, because to call oneself a solicitor you need qualifications (certificate or something, depending on the country/region), you couldn't call yourself a solicitor. Engineering is different. Aside from a few exceptions (in some countries, it is be protected like solicitor etc. are), generally it is used in the same generic sense as, say, scientist: someone whose work is fundamentally dependent on applying engineering or scientific principles, respectively. It seems to me you would like everyone to agree that only those who have had specific training should be able to call themselves engineers. Ain't going to happen, bud. |
| VK3DRB:
The sad thing about all this, is plumbers make more money that engineers and programmers, even though all three professions have to deal with a fair amount of crap. Based upon my own experience, many plumbers are incompetent slash-dash merchants more interested in a fast buck than doing a quality job. The problem is most immigrants have degrees, and are not interested in plumbing because they would lose face. There are just not enough qualified plumbers around... and the plumbers all know it. If you want to make good money, abandon programming and engineering, move to Australia and become a plumber. Many running their own business clear $1,500 to $2,000 per day. One plumber I met says he only uses Uber Eats because is time is too valuable to go out and get his own take-away lunch. Never heard an engineer say that. |
| james_s:
If they own the business a plumber can make good money, the ones working for someone else do ok but aren't getting rich, and it can be nasty work when you've got to go out and fix someone's toilet or sewer line, or crawl around in a broiling hot itchy attic on a hot summer day or muddy crawlspace in the middle of winter. A good software engineer can easily make $150k/yr sitting comfortably at a desk. |
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