Why is Dyson Head Office being re-located to Singapore?

[ocset]

Thanks, i hear what you say......and i know that Far East Asia has far more engineers than UK does.....Engineers who work in the general area of Dyson's products...therefore, it is now virtually certain that Dyson will be sold off to Far East Asia. The move to Asia was just a pre-cursor.

The Revive British Industry campaign has highlighted the  sell-offs of British industry overseas, and  how UK will soon be left destitute. Dyson is next up to go. We saw ARM go recently. And many others.
I will resist the temptation to post the Revive British Industry website, which is on Wix.
James Dyson came up with the marvellous bagless vac + dual cyclone idea, and then followed it with brilliant products such as the hand-dryer and hairdryer. But Dyson is in UK, and does not have the huge number of electronics hardware engineers available to it in order to be able to compete  in the general consumer electronics arena. Dyson would need to  have a constant stream of highly  innovative products to survive, and most people, even brilliant ones like Sir James Dyson, only have a few great innovations in them for their one lifetime.
I fear the  worst.

[SiliconWizard]

At this rate, we europeans will end up being third-world countries.

The only industry left will eventually just be plants to manufacture locally products from asian countries for the local markets.

[ebastler]

Has it crossed anyone’s mind that Dyson‘s reason for moving his corporation to Singapore is *tax breaks*? I don’t think it has anything to do with engineering talent. He has now moved his personal financial trust there, at the same time he announced the cancellation of the car „project“. Obviously a purely financial deal with the Singapore authorities.

[ocset]

At this rate, we europeans will end up being third-world countries

I don’t think so….this is because the EU has recently come up with a great idea….the idea is to make all products, especially electronics containing ones, made of components that do not fail early, or if they do, they can be easily fixed if sent back to the manufacturer…this will end Chinese electronics imports to the EU, and the EU will wisely take  charge of designing and producing all of its consumer electronics products.
This is a master stroke by the EU… which will bring it great prosperity.

Its almost as if the EU has been reading the Revive British Industry website, because that is one of its goals.
Here you can read yourself…because this is what the EU essentially, are now doing…..its along these lines….
https://massey276.wixsite.com/government

[Gyro]

I will resist the temptation to post the Revive British Industry website, which is on Wix.

So you didn't resist the temptation to post (your own) website for link again for long then! 

James Dyson came up with the marvellous bagless vac + dual cyclone idea, and then followed it with brilliant products such as the hand-dryer and hairdryer. But Dyson is in UK, and does not have the huge number of electronics hardware engineers available to it in order to be able to compete  in the general consumer electronics arena. Dyson would need to  have a constant stream of highly  innovative products to survive, and most people, even brilliant ones like Sir James Dyson, only have a few great innovations in them for their one lifetime.

I have nothing but contempt for somebody who pushed the Brexit line so vocally while at the same time planning to 'offshore' his own business!  He's as bad as Farage ensuring that his own kids have German passports.


P.S. There is nothing "marvellous" about applying, the already widely used cyclone or venturi effects. Lest we forget the bogging down ball wheelbarrow, or the counter-rotating washing machine drum that shredded peoples' clothes.

[floobydust]

I'm not buying this bullshit myth of a shortage of engineers. If it was true, OP could have a new job in minutes.

It looks Dyson failed on the car effort across many fronts, mainly due to his ego. They pissed off the car parts makers, making small changes and trying to patent that.
“They are trying to impose Dyson’s culture on the automotive industry,” one of the recently departed employees said.
"You don’t build cars the same way you build a vacuum cleaner.”
And going for Apple pricing on a EV, like the way they price $599 plastic vacuum cleaner.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-10-11/dyson-s-expensive-road-from-electric-to-invisible-cars
https://www.dyson.co.uk/automotive.html

[tom66]

There's no shortage of engineers, there's a shortage of *good* engineers. But the thing is, the good engineers tend to migrate to the jobs that pay decently.

Dyson wants EE's on 39 hour weeks (excl lunch breaks) and unpaid overtime is expected. Plus they will pay you 15% below the market average for an EE role. (I was offered £36k to work with them when my current job in the North of England pays about that, and Malmesbury is *not* a cheap place to live in.)  This just isn't compatible with attracting great talent. 

Dyson is an egotist. He gets *very* upset if you don't greet him personally if you bump into him in the lift, or he walks past you.  He's an arrogant prick too, from what I've heard from other engineers.  And Dyson is a cheapskate essentially, he pays his engineers pennies, his products are engineered to within a penny of their life, and they end up in landfill before their fifth birthday.  The labs are worn down, with old equipment and broken tools,  the network infrastructure is slow, and he has a few fighter jets in the carpark which means there's even less parking (there just isn't space for that many engineers in such a small place.)

I seriously have to ask why Dyson thought he could compete with the big boys in the automotive sector.  But in automotive, reliability is pretty much the number one thing.  If someone is spending £30k on their car, especially if it is an EV which will generally attract more value-oriented "stretch" buyers*, they don't want it in the maintenance department for a new HV pack at year four and new motor bearings by year five. Tesla learned this the hard way -- Model 3 is *hugely* better than Model S in terms of build for reliability.  I highly doubt this is compatible with Dyson's ethos.

*I recall a statistic that showed more than half of Calfornian Model S drivers previously owned a Prius.  For them, buying an $80k EV was a huge financial stretch.

[nctnico]

his products are engineered to within a penny of their life, and they end up in landfill before their fifth birthday.

Is there any alternative that has good technology, good design, comparable price and longer life?

Bosch/Siemens has decent vacuum cleaners which last very long. I'm still using the one I bought over 20 years ago.

[floobydust]

Dyson has a slew of almost 7,000 patents to stop competition.  Three pending just for a car vent. He seems to have the fluid dynamics better engineered and is known as Big Bully Co. using patent litigation to stomp out competitors.

The vac - it's just a BLDC blower fan and battery, that is sitting there doing nothing in the storage closet for most of its life. Paying $599 and it might last 5 years, I didn't buy it.
I have a 1955 made in America vac, all metal, water filtration and does not spew out fine dust to aggravate allergies- that is why I keep it going. In 64 years it's needed new brushes and a line cord. Health is more important than plastic cyclonic bagless cheapness.

[ocset]

Dyson wants EE's on 39 hour weeks (excl lunch breaks) and unpaid overtime is expected. Plus they will pay you 15% below the market average for an EE role. (I was offered £36k to work with them when my current job in the North of England pays about that, and Malmesbury is *not* a cheap place to live in.)  This just isn't compatible with attracting great talent.

Dyson is an egotist. He gets *very* upset if you don't greet him personally if you bump into him in the lift, or he walks past you.  He's an arrogant prick too, from what I've heard from other engineers.  And Dyson is a cheapskate essentially, he pays his engineers pennies, his products are engineered to within a penny of their life, and they end up in landfill before their fifth birthday.  The labs are worn down, with old equipment and broken tools,  the network infrastructure is slow, and he has a few fighter jets in the carpark which means there's even less parking (there just isn't space for that many engineers in such a small place.)

Thanks, its good to hear your opinion.
I must admit, i worked as a contractor for Dyson in about 2015 or so.
There was loads of car parking. It was my equal best ever paying job at £40/hour (better than  the other 31 co's where ive worked)
I  saw Sir James Dyson in the corridor  some  10 metres ahead of me once at approx 20:00 hrs , and he nodded to me, before heading off down another corridor, which i thought was polite...he could have just ignored me.
The working hours were no more than anywhere else ive worked.
I like his "stick" vac....they had them in the labs there, and i used to severly abuse it to test it, (make it pick up big pieces of metal etc) and it always came up trumps.
They have a very nice canteen, and other nice coffee and snack bars....very very tasty bacon sandwich each morning...and not smothered in fat.

They gave me a laptop whilst i was there....this was small and easily carryable...i used to take it up to the labs with me.....i would always be on the internet because the company wifi was excellent.
I didnt go in the locked labs, but the big open lab where i worked sometimes was fine.

I liked the big open spaces at Dyson, and the fact  that when you went to the loo, you had to walk some at least 50 metres or so...which is a good break when youve been sat down doing calculations etc.
His  toilets had the "dunk 'em once" hand dryers in them...which i thought were excellent.

Malmesbury isnt cheap...but nowhere South of approximately Birmingham is cheap in UK.

[SiliconWizard]

At this rate, we europeans will end up being third-world countries

I don’t think so….this is because the EU has recently come up with a great idea….the idea is to make all products, especially electronics containing ones, made of components that do not fail early, or if they do, they can be easily fixed if sent back to the manufacturer…this will end Chinese electronics imports to the EU, and the EU will wisely take  charge of designing and producing all of its consumer electronics products.
This is a master stroke by the EU… which will bring it great prosperity.

Are you serious, or is this some kind of cynical joke?

Because if you seriously believe in the above, you're probably on strong medication.

[tggzzz]

At this rate, we europeans will end up being third-world countries

I don’t think so….this is because the EU has recently come up with a great idea….the idea is to make all products, especially electronics containing ones, made of components that do not fail early, or if they do, they can be easily fixed if sent back to the manufacturer…this will end Chinese electronics imports to the EU, and the EU will wisely take  charge of designing and producing all of its consumer electronics products.
This is a master stroke by the EU… which will bring it great prosperity.

Are you serious, or is this some kind of cynical joke?

treez is serious about that. Other people might think he is less than serious.

Because if you seriously believe in the above, you're probably on strong medication.

Or should be on strong medication

[ocset]

Here are details on the EU proposal to make all electronics consumer products more efficient and repairable...this will inevitably mean they  end up being designed and manufactured in the EU....

https://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news-analysis/3082144/eu-right-to-repair-product-rules-should-inspire-the-rest-of-the-world

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-46797396

[BravoV]

…this will end Chinese electronics imports to the EU, and the EU will wisely take  charge of designing and producing all of its consumer electronics products.
This is a master stroke by the EU… which will bring it great prosperity.

Agree, also the consumers must be forced by law, to buy only products that are produced at EU, and also at the "right" price that "must" support and sustain the EU manufacturers, and put an ultra tight regulation to blockade the damn Far East imports, and all will live happily ever after, the end. 

[tooki]

…this will end Chinese electronics imports to the EU, and the EU will wisely take  charge of designing and producing all of its consumer electronics products.
This is a master stroke by the EU… which will bring it great prosperity.

Agree, also the consumers must be forced by law, to buy only products that are produced at EU, and also at the "right" price that "must" support and sustain the EU manufacturers, and put an ultra tight regulation to blockade the damn Far East imports, and all will live happily ever after, the end. 

Yes!! That approach has worked so well for Brazil! 😂

[SiliconWizard]

Here are details on the EU proposal to make all electronics consumer products more efficient and repairable...this will inevitably mean they  end up being designed and manufactured in the EU....

Oh, really?

[coppice]

Here are details on the EU proposal to make all electronics consumer products more efficient and repairable...this will inevitably mean they  end up being designed and manufactured in the EU....

Europe's design community is far weaker than it used to be, except, perhaps, for Germany. China has a massive design community, and excellent systems in place for fast turnaround of both prototypes and volume production. Who is likely to be first to market with products complying with any new requirement? What if you try direct blocks on things made in China? The Chinese are already setting up lots of production sites in places like Vietnam and Indonesia, where they can produce for the EU. What if you try creating made in the EU rules? China will just set up more assembly shops in the cheapest regions of the EU, probably working from sub-assemblies made in Vietnam to minimise costs. What if the EU tries to keep everything foreign out? Europe would really need to up its game in the component business, as it now makes so few basic components. If you don't take manufacturing seriously for a long time, its very hard to make your way back.

[SiliconWizard]

What if the EU tries to keep everything foreign out?

It has never done that, and will never. It would be against the free trade rules that it heavily promotes, and not just within the EU either. Thinking the latter is a big, but frequent misconception.
So it's just not going to happen.

Has any previous EU directive prevented goods from Asia to be imported? Not really. I really don't see why this one would, and as I just said, if it ever did, we would just have to half-close our eyes (just like we've done with many chinese products that are NOT compliant with EU directives, but claim to be), and move on as if nothing had happened.

[coppice]

What if the EU tries to keep everything foreign out?

It has never done that, and will never. It would be against the free trade rules that it heavily promotes, and not just within the EU either. Thinking the latter is a big, but frequent misconception.
So it's just not going to happen.

Has any previous EU directive prevented goods from Asia to be imported? Not really. I really don't see why this one would, and as I just said, if it ever did, we would just have to half-close our eyes (just like we've done with many chinese products that are NOT compliant with EU directives, but claim to be), and move on as if nothing had happened.

Of course the EU would never do that. I was just trying to cover all the options. Keeping foreign stuff out would cause immediate retaliation. Germany has far too much invested in China to allow that.

[Buriedcode]

Here are details on the EU proposal to make all electronics consumer products more efficient and repairable...this will inevitably mean they  end up being designed and manufactured in the EU....

Why is that inevitable?  I don't see that leap you just made.

[ocset]

Why is that inevitable?  I don't see that leap you just made.

If the EU will be concerned about the contents of the products, and wishes to impact on their design, then they will need  the factories to be in the EU...so that they can check up on them.....also, if stuff has to be sent back for repair, it cannot be sent to and from China, its just too expensive.

The Chinese will not be interested in the lower margins that they will get from higher quality products, with greater regulatory control, and the need to repair and return stuff. And if it was made in China, how would the EU know they were "repairing and returning", rather than just shipping more new stuff?

The EU also wants its own Army, and these days Military hardware centres on electronics...if the EU want to have the ability to have better electronics, then they will need to bring the basic consumer electroncis   design stuff back to the EU.

This is the reason...as the following  exerpt from the Revive British Industry campaign  shows...
https://massey276.wixsite.com/revive
...you just cannot have the high end electronics if you abandon the low end stuff like eg  basic SMPS design for consumer products.,.,......it just doesnt work like that.

The EU knows that the UK has abandoned consumer electronics and leaves it to the Far East....and consequently, the UK  is now not capable of buiilding the electric motors and Drives for its new Naval destroyers and its new Aircraft Carrier....the motors and drives for these are built by the French by Alstom Marine. If the UK goes to war, we have to hope the French engineers will be willing to come along with us.

[coppice]

...you just cannot have the high end electronics if you abandon the low end stuff like eg  basic SMPS design for consumer products.,.,......it just doesnt work like that.

That's nonsense. Most engineers who have only developed high end electronics have skills which work fine for those types of product, but have no idea how to be competitive with low end stuff. Driving every last cent out of the BOM is far more critical in low end designs, and is a skill set in itself.

[ocset]

Driving every last cent out of the BOM is far more critical in low end designs, and is a skill set in itself.

..as we have seen from the above, the EU are about to stop this penny pinching, and will enforce responsible manufacture, and  build-for-easy-repair.
The environment matters to them, so no more cheap electrolytics that will fail early, or cheap fans, etc etc.

By the way, the UK's entire electric naval fleet is powered by motors and drives designed and built by the French, and this prooves that dropping the simple  end of electronics, means  the entirity of electronics gets hit. The simple electronics jobs are needed so that you get enough folks in through the doors of the electronics courses in the first place in UK. (and everywhere else, but i speak of UK because we have dropped home design and manufacture more than most other countries.....we absolutely  fill our boots on whoever flogs it cheapest).

We are absolute capitalists......we try and kill off even our own British competitors......not so in USA...i used to work for Ecco group, and major Yank electronics co's woudl bust a gut to work with us even if our products failed for them...they woudl stick with us till we fixed it up.......they would loose money themselves to help a fellow Yank......its this kind of comraderie that is lacking in UK.

[ebastler]

..as we have seen from the above, the EU are about to stop this penny pinching, and will enforce responsible manufacture, and  build-for-easy-repair.
The environment matters to them, so no more cheap electrolytics that will fail early, or cheap fans, etc etc.

I am still at a loss where you got that second aspect from. I am aware of discussions to make products easier to repair, and to disassemble for proper recycling when they have reached the end of their useful life. Which is already a requirement of the original WEEE directive, but apparently shall be made more stringent.

So the initiative seems to be about using screws instead of glued and sealed components. But where does it state that the MTBF of products shall be extended? Don't get me wrong; I would appreciate such a directive -- but I am not aware of one.

[coppice]

Driving every last cent out of the BOM is far more critical in low end designs, and is a skill set in itself.

..as we have seen from the above, the EU are about to stop this penny pinching, and will enforce responsible manufacture, and  build-for-easy-repair.

Perhaps. Design for repair doesn't inherently increase costs. More often you can keep similar costs, but reliability suffers. That's often a better formula for sales success than increasing costs. Its pretty useless improving design for repair in most consumer products. They aren't worth enough to make repair a sane option. If you take most simple consumer electronics back to the supplier with a fault, they throw it in the bin and give you a new one. This is most often because its too expensive to repair, rather than unrepairable. What is the cost of simply having a competent person open something up, to try to figure out what has gone wrong? The EU can't change that.

What the EU can and should do is demand that the information and parts which allow a manufacturer's own staff to repair high value things (TVs, cameras, phones, etc) be made available at reasonable cost, to permit competitive repair. Right now too many expensive products, which are very repairable, go in the bin when they fail outside warranty, because the maker sets a very high price for any repairs. This would not change how and where products are made.

The environment matters to them, so no more cheap electrolytics that will fail early, or cheap fans, etc etc.

Really? I haven't seen a single move from the EU that shows concern for the environment. They are very concerned about doing what looks good for the next election cycle. How on Earth could they regulate against cheap electrolytics and cheap fans without really draconian practices that would destroy the last remains of European consumer electronics manufacture? Parts like electrolytics impact the life of products less now than in the past, because its all about heat. Most modern electronics takes less power and runs cooler than in previous decades.

By the way, the UK's entire electric naval fleet is powered by motors and drives designed and built by the French, and this proves that dropping the simple  end of electronics, means  the entirity of electronics gets hit.

This is merely an assertion. The RAF is getting most of its new engines from Pratt and Whitney, despite the technical prowess of Rolls Royce. It just works out that Rolls Royce don't have the right products at the right time to be a fit for the F35.

The simple electronics jobs are needed so that you get enough folks in through the doors of the electronics courses in the first place in UK. (and everywhere else, but i speak of UK because we have dropped home design and manufacture more than most other countries.....we absolutely  fill our boots on whoever flogs it cheapest).

The UK hasn't really dropped simple electronics jobs any more than most other western countries. What separates western countries is how much of the advanced stuff, like silicon design, they still do. The US, Germany and Japan still keep a lot of this advanced work on shore, although they are setting up more and more design centres in Asia.

We are absolute capitalists......we try and kill off even our own British competitors......not so in USA...i used to work for Ecco group, and major Yank electronics co's woudl bust a gut to work with us even if our products failed for them...they woudl stick with us till we fixed it up.......they would loose money themselves to help a fellow Yank......its this kind of comraderie that is lacking in UK.

You must have worked with a very relaxed set of US companies. They are generally brutal in beating each other up over costs, which is how they stay lean, and competitive and in business. If British companies had acted in a more aggressive manner over the last half century there might be more of them still around.