Why is Dyson Head Office being re-located to Singapore?

[coppice]

How do you know that the British Airbus people voted "leave". That would be a big surprise for me.

There have been quite a few interviewed on television outside the factory in Broughton who have freely admitted they did.

Its easy to find some people to interview who will say they voted to leave, even if only a small percentage did. You'd need a rather more scientific study to get a real picture of specifically how Airbus employees voted. However, it does look like many of the towns most reliant on a robust EU, like the towns where Airbus and the Japanese car assembly plants are located, generally had some of the high percentage votes to leave the EU.

[Simon]

I really doubt if they would 'abandon' the UK.

Dyson has been moving step by step to Singapore for years. Now, with their electric car activities committed to being entirely in Singapore, it make sense for them to move their HQ there and abandon the UK entirely over the next few years.

Singapore is cheaper and James Dyson is a well known liar. He trumpets he UK and us leaving the EU being good but he clearly does not believe his own words he is just another piece of Tory scum that tells lies, obviously actually entering politics would be too tedious for him but he is no better than a scumbag politician.

[cdev]

It is totally irresponsible to mislead people. Especially when money may be involved.

When some really important situation exists, or when somebody is a fiduciary (people in public offices, or running for public office, should be considered to have a fiduciary responsibility, basically a legal obligation to try to tell the truth)

it should then be mandatory to do ones best to tell the whole story. Even the inconvenient parts.  Anything else is irresponsible.

[cdev]

Well, if you drink the Kool Aid that they were empowered to make the (illegitimate) deals its claimed they made you still end up with the fact that then they made what amounts to a worldwide deal to do something that 99% of the public would guess wasn't theirs to promise away.

That should tell us that that deal was not made, that its unconscionable and void.

But they did it anyway and continue to try to do more of it.

A trade so horrible I can't even explain it without invariably falling into rant territory. So I guess if I was a fiduciary (I'm not) I would then be breaking my own proposed rule, but I did it both because people don't believe me (or others) when they try to explain this and also because people need their mental health.

Look up the phrase 'control fraud'.

Some people have no moral compass. That doesn't mean they have some moral compass it means they have no moral compass.

How to visualize it. Trust somebody gives you, to a narcissist, is a bit like money, they see it as something they could spend. Most of us wouldn't see it that way but they do. Do you see what I am getting at. By creating a world where accountability is made to not exist where 'money is everything' (thats what we're doing now) we're opening up the door to really serious abuses.

Maybe thats not so clear, let me try again.

The Mob, organized crime, sometimes when they have 'captured' a business sort of max out its credit, they take out as many loans in a business name as possible, they leverage every possible thing, they create a massive debt that can never be paid, and leave it a shell with as large a negative balance as they can.

Corrupt despots in Third World countries, the ruling classes in despot ruled countries 'banana republics' used to be known for doing that (creating the huge "Third World Debt" that the banks in developed countries insist must be paid, by their people. Even though their people were not the ones who stole that money or put it into Swiss bank accounts. But they must pay, their retirement funds, their everything really, is what pays off the debt of the insiders, who walk away scot free.

Also zero hour contracts and I see that they use the immigrants for their "market forces" on wages.

Guess what, thats the way the system we have now works. Thats by design.

Too much is left unsaid, when things are left open, don't always assume that people will behave the way they did in the past. Under different conditions.

The powerful call this LYING 'creative ambiguity' People believe them because they have no choice, its not 'consent'.

You'll notice that every ten years or so, there is another, massive global theft, each one gets bigger. The same people seem to be making more and more each time, they always get away scot free.

Here is some stuff on the second or third to last one, for example.

http://visar.csustan.edu/aaba/BCCICOVERUP.pdf


https://www.sec.gov/rules/proposed/s71300/sikka1b.htm

[coppice]

It is totally irresponsible to mislead people. Especially when money may be involved.

When some really important situation exists, or when somebody is a fiduciary (people in public offices, or running for public office, should be considered to have a fiduciary responsibility, basically a legal obligation to try to tell the truth)

it should then be mandatory to do ones best to tell the whole story. Even the inconvenient parts.  Anything else is irresponsible.

I think you've confused the words "irresponsible" and "profitable".

[cdev]

Note, I am not talking about Dyson, I'm talking about Brexit hypotheses

You can find a lot of stuff if you google "Control Fraud". The movie "the Producers" (the original one from 1967, I haven't seen the remakes, Broadway play, etc) depicts a "Control Fraud". The term was coined by William Black.


Or here, watch this video.

http://wallstreetonparade.com/2019/01/former-sec-attorney-james-kidney-is-captured-regulators-worst-nightmare/

Another "Control Fraud"  (which was also made into a book and a movie, however this is the real story.)

[vk6zgo]

Maybe the best way is a hard Brexit. Then the brits can figure out if they really like it and if all the proposed benefits really happen If not .... they could make another people's vote after they found out how it feels in reality. In the moment they look like a totally confused people who only know what they *dont* want.

That thought occurred to me too but unfortunately, no, it wouldn't work.

There would always be another scapegoat, it'd be 'remainers' or somehow the EU again because they refused to bend over and give us everything we asked for or that tree over there because it looked at them funny.

A for instance, we are experiencing drug shortages here because of brexit stockpiling, a leaver told me it wasn't true, despite it being widely reported in the media and my partner's pharmacist telling her that is the reason she couldn't have some of her regular meds.

According to him, it's not true because he didn't vote for that and even if it was true he wasn't responsible for it, nor were any of the other people who voted leave, it was the government's fault.

That's the level of weapons grade stupidity that brought about Brexit.

Poms love to moan -- without something to "whinge"about, they might be happy, which would make them unhappy, if you get my drift.

It's a bit like a relaxation oscillator.
Moan because they are unhappy, moaning makes them happy, then they are unhappy because they don't have anything to moan about, so they moan about that!

[cdev]

Not wise at all because any change you make to WTO status (like leaving the EU WTO umbrella) will trigger 162 countries demands from you for compensation. And those demands will also include conformance with current, not pre WTO pre 1995 rules. Simply put in real terms, only one of the likely many required changes, the loss of the NHS's grandfathering alone could cost individual Britons a half million dollars apiece over their lifetimes in today's money, in increased health insurance costs, more if they have any kind of pre-existing conditions, and thats a very conservative estimate (based on very old costs not current ones) . Thats enough to buy a house in many areas. Ask Americans how much health insurance in US urban areas cost, I dare you. That could easily be the cost of WTO accession. I have a feeling I know what country might demand that. And as I said, thats just one of dozens of changes you will likely face.

[CJay]

Poms love to moan -- without something to "whinge"about, they might be happy, which would make them unhappy, if you get my drift.

It's a bit like a relaxation oscillator.
Moan because they are unhappy, moaning makes them happy, then they are unhappy because they don't have anything to moan about, so they moan about that!

We do love a good whinge, that's true, and brexit will give us amazing fodder to moan about for decades to come. 

[tggzzz]

Singapore is cheaper and James Dyson is a well known liar. He trumpets he UK and us leaving the EU being good but he clearly does not believe his own words he is just another piece of Tory scum that tells lies, obviously actually entering politics would be too tedious for him but he is no better than a scumbag politician.

Oooh. Politics.

For the record, I don't disagree - as was obliquely mentioned in a Guardian article a week or so ago No, I don't intend to discuss that further

[Simon]

i was told that James Dyson wanted a tax break from the UK government but did not get it, he is only doing electric car design in the Uk because of all of the tax breaks for R&D (60% back instead of 20%). The man is a self serving asshole that same as all of these so called entrepreneurs.

Have we all forgotten his zero carbon emissions vacuum cleaners?

[cdev]

Here they come- these are the first I've seen so far.

These are for Taiwan - 162 more countries to go on compensation, 163 possible objectors to UK's solo accession.

Imagine 163 countries getting a free pass to go into your "house" and select one piece or another of your economy for themselves and all the other members to enter. They will try to pick one where they can underbid your own firms, under one of the "Four Modes of Supply" which is how they are broken up in their schedules. If I were you I would find a good description of those four modes and print it out to have handy so you'll understand them as these "request-offer" negotiations proceed. I think that some of the existing UK schedule docs are available on tradebetablog which is on wordpress.com .

Will it be this service sector or that one each new country wants concessions to service?

http://focustaiwan.tw/news/aeco/201901170014.aspx

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3619246

'Taipei looks forward to “entering into consultations expeditiously with the United Kingdom in order to reach a satisfactory resolution to this matter".'

Seriously, this ordeal is going to make Brexit itself look like "the comfy chair".

[Simon]

cdev, we are not interested in trade deal talks so zip it please!

[coppice]

cdev, we are not interested in trade deal talks so zip it please!

How can you discuss brexit and Dyson moving to Singapore in isolation from trade deals? If trade deals are off the table, this entire thread, and any others about work moving from place to place, have to be off the table.

[Simon]

The thread is about Dyson moving. If you let cdev he will fill the entire thread with extensive essays on trade deals out of the scope of the topic. Alternatively I can close the off topic thread.

[coppice]

The thread is about Dyson moving. If you let cdev he will fill the entire thread with extensive essays on trade deals out of the scope of the topic. Alternatively I can close the off topic thread.

Dyson is moving because trade deals, and the Singapore government's love of subsidising new industries to attract them, make that a good deal for them. Singapore can only get away with these subsidies because of the trade deal framework in which they operate. Trade deals are EXACTLY why Dyson is moving.

Singapore doesn't do very well from these subsidies. I have seen numerous examples of places closing in Singapore the very day the subsidies ran out.

[Simon]

Dyson is moving for tax reasons, as a non EU company his goods will face tarrifs but if building in singapore is significantly cheaper the tarrifs are no issue anyway which is the whole basis for making things in Asia. He is taking advantage of UK R&D tax breaks AND tax deals on his manufacturing.

[cdev]

How about if I created a thread specifically for them? No ranting, I'll just post links to the articles I see to these requests and their links.

For example, India wants various changes.. including ones in engineering..

https://www.thequint.com/voices/opinion/what-should-brexit-mean-for-india-2

Here is an article from a few yrs ago that explains this process...

https://www.ictsd.org/opinion/nothing-simple-about-uk-regaining-wto-status-post-brexit

[coppice]

Dyson is moving for tax reasons, as a non EU company his goods will face tarrifs but if building in singapore is significantly cheaper the tarrifs are no issue anyway which is the whole basis for making things in Asia. He is taking advantage of UK R&D tax breaks AND tax deals on his manufacturing.

Have you looked at costs in Singapore? Their basic costs are well above the UK's. Its only cheaper to do business there when a combination of subsidies, trade deals, and tax breaks make it so. Almost 100% of hard disk drives were made in Singapore at one time, as a result of focussed government activities. When the sweet deals ran out, so did all the manufacturers, to the nearest low cost place - Thailand. Since then Singapore's costs have been rising, each new industry they attract is more tightly tied to sweet deals, and they keep loosing them faster as the deals expire. In the early 90s places like Ang Mo Kio were really bustling with a diversity of high tech development and manufacture. Now they will go to great lengths to attract replacements for the companies who have left.

A few years ago Singapore was eager to build comms businesses. They offered sweet deals for companies, and some well funded PhD programs. It didn't seem to work out very well for them. If you want to found a bio-tech startup right now, Singapore is a great place to go. I know friends of friends who have left the UK to found bio-tech businesses in Singapore, because it was so much more attractive. Its all down to trade deals, because they determine what tax breaks and subsidies a government can get away with.

[Simon]

Tarrifs are charged by the importing country and are governed by their rules not anything that singapore can offer. So if we buy dyson crap in the UK we will be paying whatever tariffs the EU impose, or us under an anglo-singapore deal or WTO, singapore does not get to make these rules so all they can lay on the tables it the taxs breaks he wanted out of the UK for being a massive Tory supporter.

[coppice]

Tarrifs are charged by the importing country and are governed by their rules not anything that singapore can offer. So if we buy dyson crap in the UK we will be paying whatever tariffs the EU impose, or us under an anglo-singapore deal or WTO, singapore does not get to make these rules so all they can lay on the tables it the taxs breaks he wanted out of the UK for being a massive Tory supporter.

Tariffs are a two way thing. They are either set by a body like the WTO, or they stabilise to a stand off position between the two parties.

[Simon]

We are currently in the EU, so we are governed by EU trade treaties. What is the Eu trade deal with singapore?

[BradC]

James Dyson is a well known liar.

The man is a self serving asshole that same as all of these so called entrepreneurs.

if we buy dyson crap

You seem to dislike the bloke. Did he shoot your dog or something?

[Simon]

James Dyson is a well known liar.

The man is a self serving asshole that same as all of these so called entrepreneurs.

if we buy dyson crap

You seem to dislike the bloke. Did he shoot your dog or something?

Yes I do, you just quoted my reasons!

[coppice]

James Dyson is a well known liar.

The man is a self serving asshole that same as all of these so called entrepreneurs.

if we buy dyson crap

You seem to dislike the bloke. Did he shoot your dog or something?

It more the reaction to Dyson in the UK that bothers me. In previous generations he would have been treated as a great marketer. Now engineering in the UK has sunk so low he's treated as a great engineer. When he made a poorly engineered rip-off of a Mitsubishi hand dryer he was lauded as a fantastic innovator. That's how blindly he is followed.