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Why is the 741 op amp still produced?

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tszaboo:

--- Quote from: floobydust on October 02, 2020, 04:02:04 am ---Look at the other side - the op-amp portfolio manager needs new products, new profits so they constantly roll out new op-amps, per the MBA way.

We think cost is driven by silicon area, but I think it's reverse - they have a pricing matrix using features such as offset voltage, speed, RR etc. to determine the pennies to charge and fill some niche left out by competitors.

It's a problem now with the mergers and acquisitions where all of a sudden a corporation now owns previously competing portfolios. What a mess. They have to swing the axe and thin out the lineup. Consolidation (PMI, SSM, Burr Brown, NS, LT) will lead to less competition and poorer offerings because innovation is not really needed.  It's ADI vs TI now.

P.S.- on the speed issue, I found LT1494  0.001V/usec slew rate on super low power 1.5uA, a neat part.

--- End quote ---
No, for sure not cost driven. I mean, LT is charging the same amount for a single opamp, than chinese companies for a reel of MC34063 clone.

About the mergers, it is absolutely a mess. They started obsoleting parts left and right. Now we have to look out for parts, like BJTs and zeners, because they might stop producing them. And for sure, you dont care about this in a washing machine. For me these are used in a certified product, and if I have to change it, it is several thousand EUR just to certify the product again.

coppice:

--- Quote from: floobydust on October 02, 2020, 04:02:04 am ---Look at the other side - the op-amp portfolio manager needs new products, new profits so they constantly roll out new op-amps, per the MBA way.

--- End quote ---
No sane portfolio manager wants new products. They want new sales of existing products, since that doesn't involve a lot of NRE and a long time to market. New products are a last resort when pushing the existing products fails. Most new semiconductor products come about from 2 driving forces. The sales team keep feeding back requirements they see from customers, that existing products can't fulfill. The technology side keeps showing some interesting results they can achieve, either today or in the near future. The portfolio manager's role is to find where those 2 inputs match, and an appealing new product can be defined. People rarely develop new semiconductor devices without an extensive survey of what customers are actually looking for, and when they need those parts. One of the key things most companies require for a development project kick-off is some key named customers, their expected volumes, and the market window for each customer.

coppice:

--- Quote from: NANDBlog on October 02, 2020, 08:44:03 am ---About the mergers, it is absolutely a mess. They started obsoleting parts left and right. Now we have to look out for parts, like BJTs and zeners, because they might stop producing them. And for sure, you dont care about this in a washing machine. For me these are used in a certified product, and if I have to change it, it is several thousand EUR just to certify the product again.

--- End quote ---
Most of the obsoleting is not about mergers, although mergers are often the trigger point for action. Obsoleting is mostly about lack of demand or obsolete production equipment. While some ancient devices, and compatible derivatives, like the 555, still sell by the billion, many old devices still available sell just a few thousand parts per year. How low can you expect demand to go, and still have the part listed as available?

tszaboo:

--- Quote from: coppice on October 02, 2020, 09:47:27 am ---
--- Quote from: NANDBlog on October 02, 2020, 08:44:03 am ---About the mergers, it is absolutely a mess. They started obsoleting parts left and right. Now we have to look out for parts, like BJTs and zeners, because they might stop producing them. And for sure, you dont care about this in a washing machine. For me these are used in a certified product, and if I have to change it, it is several thousand EUR just to certify the product again.

--- End quote ---
Most of the obsoleting is not about mergers, although mergers are often the trigger point for action. Obsoleting is mostly about lack of demand or obsolete production equipment. While some ancient devices, and compatible derivatives, like the 555, still sell by the billion, many old devices still available sell just a few thousand parts per year. How low can you expect demand to go, and still have the part listed as available?

--- End quote ---
Well, kinda. Remember Fairchild? They had no obsolescence policy, until ON bought them. ON is obsoleting like half their portfolio as we speak.
Microchip throw out entire product lines from Atmel.
Littlefuse just throw out IXYS's solar panel portfolio
IRF was decimated by Infineon. When they bought them, it was synergy (sound of angels in  the background), after a year it was too much overlap.

coppice:

--- Quote from: NANDBlog on October 02, 2020, 06:22:51 pm ---Well, kinda. Remember Fairchild? They had no obsolescence policy, until ON bought them. ON is obsoleting like half their portfolio as we speak.

--- End quote ---
A blanket no obsolescence policy is ridiculous, and obviously won't be kept to. When they sell just a few hundred a year, do you really think its viable to not obsolete the part? When the fab is unmaintainable, do you really think its viable to not obsolete the part?

The first time I got to see from the inside the point at which old parts get dropped I was astonished how long that vendor had continued with supply. Many of the parts dropped on that occasion sold just a few thousand per annum, and hadn't sold in decent quantities for years. Vendors serving things like the consumer and computer markets tend to have fairly short windows of opportunity for their parts, and are dropping them all the time. Vendors serving industrial customers are at the opposite end of the scale. Large vendors, serving many markets, may have different practices in each division.


--- Quote from: NANDBlog on October 02, 2020, 06:22:51 pm ---Microchip throw out entire product lines from Atmel.
Littlefuse just throw out IXYS's solar panel portfolio
IRF was decimated by Infineon. When they bought them, it was synergy (sound of angels in  the background), after a year it was too much overlap.

--- End quote ---
I wonder how many of those parts were sold per annum? I doubt too many high volume, decent margin parts were dumped at the drop of a hat. Political infighting obviously plays a part, but its mostly down to volumes, margins, and the technology still being available to make the parts.

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