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why is the US not Metric

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tooki:

--- Quote from: bsfeechannel on February 07, 2020, 03:04:07 am ---
--- Quote from: tooki on February 06, 2020, 11:21:29 am ---Not all metric advocacy is patronizing and sanctimonious. But what's contained in this thread mostly is. It hasn't been the American metrication advocates in this thread who've been patronizing and sanctimonious, it's been the European ones.
--- End quote ---

The US is the only country that has a metric "advocacy". The other countries don't waste their time discussing the benefits of the metric system, because it has been tried and tested for at least two centuries and it proved beyond any doubt that it is the ideal system for the era we are living.

--- End quote ---
And that gives you the right to be patronizing and sanctimonious, rude, and ignore actual facts given to you?


--- Quote from: bsfeechannel on February 07, 2020, 03:04:07 am ---In the US people are still ridiculously debating whether to use it or not,

--- End quote ---
No, actually, they're not. In a given situation, it's almost always crystal clear which system should be used. And it's because of this axiom that the US has been gradually migrating to metric in most things.

And why in EVERY country, there remain things that are NOT metric!!! (It's infuriating how the metric advocates conveniently ignore this truth.)



--- Quote from: bsfeechannel on February 07, 2020, 03:04:07 am ---and the arguments are the most stupid like the one by that guy James Panero, self entitled an "anti-metrite" in the second message of this thread (not to mention Tucker Carlson's opinions who's paid to play retarded).
What is alarming is to see exactly the same ideas, which were just exposed emphatically in that video, being held in the arguments in this thread, with less radical words, but carrying the same spirit. And I'm not talking about rstofer's arguments.

--- End quote ---
**yawn**


--- Quote from: bsfeechannel on February 07, 2020, 03:04:07 am ---Talking about the metric system with some people in the US is sometimes almost like trying to explain the benefits of electricity to the Amish (some of them reportedly use very limited forms of electricity, by the way).

--- End quote ---
Oh, please, do try and lecture me about the Amish. Not like I ever a) lived right near the primary region of the US where the Amish live, b) lived in the country the Amish originally emigrated from, or c) did term papers about the Amish. Oh, wait, I have done all three.



--- Quote from: boffin on February 07, 2020, 07:12:57 pm ---Fundamentally the only thing is comes down to is arrogance.  We don't want to switch, why should we switch.

--- End quote ---
You are confusing arrogance and indifference. You are being arrogant. Americans are, for the most part, indifferent: it simply doesn't matter. We don't care.

And of course, you are continuing to repeat the nonsense about American companies forgoing foreign sales due to refusing to switch. Um, no, everywhere that it matters they HAVE ALREADY switched.  |O

bsfeechannel:

--- Quote from: CatalinaWOW on February 07, 2020, 07:21:11 pm ---Metric certainly doesn't prevent imprecision or confusion.  The metric system you have been touting, the self consistent and easy set of units has NOT been tried and tested for over two centuries.  Although the two basic units, the meter and the kilogram (and the scaling prefixes) are that old, the system is much newer.  The MKS system was introduced in 1889 and SI, the well thought out system was first introduced in 1948.

--- End quote ---


The metric system has been and will always be a work in progress, once we are constantly improving our knowledge, technology, precision and methods. So the whole history of the system accounts for its present success.


--- Quote ---And even today could use some improvement.  The Kelvin and the related Celsius divide freezing and boiling point of water by 100 degrees.  Which may be convenient for something, but it results in a strange quantity for the temperature rise from putting a Joule of energy into a kilogram of water. 0.00263 degrees C.  It would be far more useful to have the metric temperature unit be chosen such that 1 joule into a kg of water resulted in one degree rise.  Call that unit a Degm and it would equal 380 degrees C.  Not necessarily a convenient size for deciding whether to wear a jacket or not, but the scaling prefixes come to the rescue here.  Daily usage would be in milliDegm.  Normal room temperature would be about 780 mDegm.  A day when you would start to think about ice skating would be 718 mDegm.  And for those in desert climates those scorching hot days would be about 850 mDegm.

Why isn't the whole world attacking such a logical improvement?
--- End quote ---

Temperature units are maintained in the SI because of tradition, but they are unnecessary, since we know that temperature is related to thermal energy, and we already have a unit for that, the Joule.

However, in the metric system this relation is governed by the Boltzmann constant, which is universal. So 1 K =  1.380 649×10⁻²³ K/J · 1 J. Add 273,15 and you have the ubiquitous degree Celsius. As simple as that.


--- Quote from: tooki on February 08, 2020, 04:56:02 pm ---And that gives you the right to be patronizing and sanctimonious, rude, and ignore actual facts given to you?

--- End quote ---

Solving this problem is simple. Switch to metric and get your sense of humor back.


--- Quote ---And why in EVERY country, there remain things that are NOT metric!!! (It's infuriating how the metric advocates conveniently ignore this truth.)
--- End quote ---

You still don't get it. No one is ignoring the fact that there are a few things non metric out there. What we are rejecting is the use of this fact to justify the imposition, or at least the maintenance, of customary units.


--- Quote ---**yawn**
--- End quote ---

What can I do? Now it's you that are ignoring a fact. So don't complain when you realize that the resistance of the people in the US to metrication is a world-wide object of derision.


--- Quote ---Oh, please, do try and lecture me about the Amish.
--- End quote ---

And, of course, now that you are an expert in the Amish, my argument is invalid.


--- Quote ---Um, no, everywhere that it matters they HAVE ALREADY switched.
--- End quote ---

The US is metricated where metric makes sense, and imperial where imperial doesn't.

Addicted2AnalogTek:
I haven't been religiously reading this thread, so what I'm about to say may have been said already here. 

In my mind, there's probably a few major reasons why the U.S. hasn't adopted the metric system.

1) On the industrial level, the cost to convert all manufacturing plants to metric would be huge.
2) As a small example, in my field of work (construction), builders would have to replace many of their tools - from cheap things like tape measures to large expensive saws that have imprinted measurements on guide rails, etc.  National Code Enforcement books, which use Imperial measurements, would need to be rewritten as well.
3) On the individual level, Americans seem to like clinging to the ideology that we lead the world nearly everything and must remain different from the rest of the world. "We're the best, so why should we change to be like you?" - that seems to be the mentality.
Also on the individual level, the American people don't want to be bothered with the challenge of having to convert their world into another system of measurement. This seems to fall in line with why most Americans can't be bothered to learn a second language. They're mostly lazy, set in their ways, think they're the best at everything, and have no interest in being compatible with the rest of the world.

The only U.S. entity that has apparently adopted the Metric System is military R&D and manufacturing, which did so to comply with NATO standards.

Personally I prefer the Metric system and exclusively use it when I'm installing tile as it's much more precise. I'm stuck using Imperial for nearly everything else since everyone else in the construction world around me uses it, as do my material suppliers.

CatalinaWOW:

--- Quote from: bsfeechannel on February 09, 2020, 01:32:25 pm ---
--- Quote from: CatalinaWOW on February 07, 2020, 07:21:11 pm ---Metric certainly doesn't prevent imprecision or confusion.  The metric system you have been touting, the self consistent and easy set of units has NOT been tried and tested for over two centuries.  Although the two basic units, the meter and the kilogram (and the scaling prefixes) are that old, the system is much newer.  The MKS system was introduced in 1889 and SI, the well thought out system was first introduced in 1948.

--- End quote ---


The metric system has been and will always be a work in progress, once we are constantly improving our knowledge, technology, precision and methods. So the whole history of the system accounts for its present success.


--- Quote ---And even today could use some improvement.  The Kelvin and the related Celsius divide freezing and boiling point of water by 100 degrees.  Which may be convenient for something, but it results in a strange quantity for the temperature rise from putting a Joule of energy into a kilogram of water. 0.00263 degrees C.  It would be far more useful to have the metric temperature unit be chosen such that 1 joule into a kg of water resulted in one degree rise.  Call that unit a Degm and it would equal 380 degrees C.  Not necessarily a convenient size for deciding whether to wear a jacket or not, but the scaling prefixes come to the rescue here.  Daily usage would be in milliDegm.  Normal room temperature would be about 780 mDegm.  A day when you would start to think about ice skating would be 718 mDegm.  And for those in desert climates those scorching hot days would be about 850 mDegm.

Why isn't the whole world attacking such a logical improvement?
--- End quote ---

Temperature units are maintained in the SI because of tradition, but they are unnecessary, since we know that temperature is related to thermal energy, and we already have a unit for that, the Joule.

However, in the metric system this relation is governed by the Boltzmann constant, which is universal. So 1 K =  1.380 649×10⁻²³ K/J · 1 J. Add 273,15 and you have the ubiquitous degree Celsius. As simple as that.


--- Quote from: tooki on February 08, 2020, 04:56:02 pm ---And that gives you the right to be patronizing and sanctimonious, rude, and ignore actual facts given to you?

--- End quote ---

Solving this problem is simple. Switch to metric and get your sense of humor back.


--- Quote ---And why in EVERY country, there remain things that are NOT metric!!! (It's infuriating how the metric advocates conveniently ignore this truth.)
--- End quote ---

You still don't get it. No one is ignoring the fact that there are a few things non metric out there. What we are rejecting is the use of this fact to justify the imposition, or at least the maintenance, of customary units.


--- Quote ---**yawn**
--- End quote ---

What can I do? Now it's you that are ignoring a fact. So don't complain when you realize that the resistance of the people in the US to metrication is a world-wide object of derision.


--- Quote ---Oh, please, do try and lecture me about the Amish.
--- End quote ---

And, of course, now that you are an expert in the Amish, my argument is invalid.


--- Quote ---Um, no, everywhere that it matters they HAVE ALREADY switched.
--- End quote ---

The US is metricated where metric makes sense, and imperial where imperial doesn't.

--- End quote ---

I repeat - Metric doesn't prevent misunderstanding.  The numeric value for the Boltzman constant is not a number like pi which is independent of units. 

Also, using your own arguments, America is already metric.  In this last quote you wave off a few odd or legacy uses of older units as irrelevant to the status of metrification, which is where the US is today.

Perhaps the real question is why you want to make such uses illegal in the US?

boffin:

--- Quote from: tooki on February 08, 2020, 04:56:02 pm ---

--- Quote from: boffin on February 07, 2020, 07:12:57 pm ---Fundamentally the only thing is comes down to is arrogance.  We don't want to switch, why should we switch.

--- End quote ---
You are confusing arrogance and indifference. You are being arrogant. Americans are, for the most part, indifferent: it simply doesn't matter. We don't care.

And of course, you are continuing to repeat the nonsense about American companies forgoing foreign sales due to refusing to switch. Um, no, everywhere that it matters they HAVE ALREADY switched.  |O

--- End quote ---

No, I'm not confusing them at all.

What you call indifference (why should we bother), is in reality, arrogance (why should we have to change - we're bigger than you).


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