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why is the US not Metric

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ebastler:

--- Quote from: KL27x on November 18, 2019, 06:08:56 pm ---^None of that other stuff matters, though. It's just a label on a container. You sell us the same stuff, just with oz printed on it, or whatnot. We don't care. It doesn't matter.

--- End quote ---

Just coming off a call with a few US colleagues, about designing a shielding enclosure for an experimental X-ray setup. Which needs to incorporate an off-the-shelf, vibration-isolated breadboard. Needs to adhere to certain gap tolerances. And which needs to fit through a doorframe.

Believe me, centimeters vs. inches does matter! And it is an endless source of misunderstandings, conversion errors, people struggling to get the same mental picture etc.

I was surprised that my colleagues -- all of them experienced engineers -- did not deal with centimeters more fluently, to be honest. This is a US-based company, which has however "gone metric" for all new designs years ago, since we sell internationally. Goes to show how deeply engrained those units you have grown up with are for everyone! Which is, of course, exactly why this thread is running on and on...  ;)

KL27x:

--- Quote ---Believe me, centimeters vs. inches does matter! And it is an endless source of misunderstandings, conversion errors, people struggling to get the same mental picture etc.
--- End quote ---

This is perfect example. The problem is not with imperial. The problem is that these Americans are stupid.
If we all conform to one system, these americans do not become smarter. They can just more easily hide their incompetence.

I work with other americans in designing PCBs and housings. I use imperial. He uses metric. Never once we ask another to use our units. We both offer to use the other's units, and we both decline. We have never had any mixup. If your american partner is stupid and you are so great, why not offer to use imperial yourself? This is only a problem when both parties are incompetent. In this case you hire a "translator." Maybe one of you has an 8 yr old kid who can help you out. The 8 yr old learned this more recently and perhaps still remembers how to do a conversion.

To me imperial was more natural because of experience with breadboards and 0.1" headers. And also to visual trace width, now. I just know what is what, more naturally. But to anyone I work with I will gladly adapt if they want. It is not much more to me but hitting a menu option. But when working with actual physical objects and fitting, I think always in imperial. When something is tight or rubbing or off just a tad, I can tell by the feel how many thousandths of an inch to change it. A thousandth is something that is real. I can see a thous; I can feel down to probably half a thous. This is my calibration to the physical world. I will translate this to metric if my partner prefers it, no problem.

So far, we've had only one minor clarification to cover. And that had nothing to do with metric. FWIW, who the heck else here calls a radius a chamfer?

tooki:

--- Quote from: soldar on November 18, 2019, 06:28:54 pm ---
--- Quote from: Simon on October 26, 2019, 08:44:46 pm --- litres per 100km alwoys confused me. I mean why?
--- End quote ---

Because that is how normal people think. A normal person thinks "hmmm, I would like to go visit my aunt Arleen who is 56 Km away; knowing the car uses 7.2 liters per 100 km then I can know I need 0.56 * 7.2 liters to go to her house". 

Very few people think "hmm, I have 4 liters of fuel, how many Km can I travel with that and who lives at that distance so I can visit them".

In other words, when doing calculations the distance is given and the fuel is the quantity desired, not the other way around.

--- End quote ---
What arrogance. It’s just as logical to calculate distance per volume: “I need to go x distance, so how much fuel do I need to buy?” That the l/100km seems logical to you is simply because it’s what you grew up with. Just as mpg is logical to me because it’s what I grew up with. Neither approach has any advantage or disadvantage over the other, since they’re simple reciprocals of each other. (And indeed, while I’m not aware of any place that uses gallons per mile, there apparently are places where km/l is the measure used.)

But moreover, people rarely do such calculations. They just fill up when the tank is low. So you really only compare fuel efficiency numbers when purchasing a car. And it doesn’t make one rat’s patoot of difference whether it’s distance per volume or volume per distance. You just know that in the former, you want as large a number as possible, and in the latter as small as possible, and you compare models.

bsfeechannel:

--- Quote from: KL27x on November 15, 2019, 10:43:42 pm ---Wow, freedom gallons. So many metric trolls. I think the metric trolls added up in this thread convert to 4.6 rstophers, imperial unit of troll. Conversion is 1 rstopher: 1.108 bsfeechannel.

--- End quote ---

I've seen numerous jokes ridiculing the metric system, or praising the refusal to seriously adopt it, on the media in the US along the past 5 decades. No one can complain now that the US has become the joke in that regard.


--- Quote from: forrestc on November 15, 2019, 11:50:57 pm ---What is the exact economic benefit of changing the units we measure our roads by from miles to km?   

--- End quote ---

I'll invert the question. What exact economic benefit did all other countries in the world see in measuring their roads in km instead of miles? Did they think they'd save on tires or fuel with that change?


--- Quote ---It doesn't matter what the number system is, as long as everything matches.   The distance could be miles, or kilometers, or furlongs or kilosmoots, it wouldn't matter.   I'm not doing engineering with those figures.
--- End quote ---

So you drive a motorized vehicle along a road and you think you're not doing engineering. Well, whoever builds and maintains the road is.

When I build a road in the US, I can use the meter. But then I have to give the distances in miles and clearances in feet and inches because the drivers will not understand that they can use the same unit that was used to build the road.


--- Quote ---It's really frustrating to hear people say "the US isn't metric".
--- End quote ---

Because that's the truth.

If you use half a dozen units of length besides the meter, you defeat one of the purposes of metrication which is to replace all those historical units with the standard itself.


--- Quote from: CatalinaWOW on November 15, 2019, 11:58:59 pm ---
And here we have the heart of the problem.  While the cost of replacing all of the non-metric street signs in America is trivial, the cost of replacing his brain dead, useless, totally antiquated US sourced products that he bought with beautiful metricated products, or the cost of moving back to some enlightened, forward thinking, economically advantaged part of the world is totally unreasonable.

Pardon me while I shed crocodile tears.

--- End quote ---

Maybe you think that, because the US still uses imperial units, they are automatically fashionable. But I can assure you they are not. Outside the US, imperial is seen as deprecated, old-school, obsolete and, in many cases, a nuisance.

It may carry some vintage charm, perhaps a nostalgic note, but it stops there.

Many would like to see it wiped out for good. And if the US helped to make it disappear, that would be "heavy". 

CatalinaWOW:

--- Quote from: bsfeechannel on November 19, 2019, 03:40:30 am ---


--- Quote from: CatalinaWOW on November 15, 2019, 11:58:59 pm ---
And here we have the heart of the problem.  While the cost of replacing all of the non-metric street signs in America is trivial, the cost of replacing his brain dead, useless, totally antiquated US sourced products that he bought with beautiful metricated products, or the cost of moving back to some enlightened, forward thinking, economically advantaged part of the world is totally unreasonable.

Pardon me while I shed crocodile tears.

--- End quote ---

Maybe you think that, because the US still uses imperial units, they are automatically fashionable. But I can assure you they are not. Outside the US, imperial is seen as deprecated, old-school, obsolete and, in many cases, a nuisance.

It may carry some vintage charm, perhaps a nostalgic note, but it stops there.

Many would like to see it wiped out for good. And if the US helped to make it disappear, that would be "heavy".

--- End quote ---

I said nothing about fashion.  It was suggested that if you don't like Imperial, or what we call in the US, Standard units just buy from a metric country or don't live in a non-metric country.  Your response was "too late".  Implying that you either live in a non-metric country or own non-metric equipment.  Both of those problems can be solved without the US going metric, though it would involve some expense on your part. 

I am sorry I added all of the fluffy adjectives because it clearly caused you to miss the point.  Which is that you seem to be completely dismissive of the costs to the US of changing, but unwilling to incur any costs to cure your own discomfort.

By the way, in another post you suggested that the world could raise several billion dollars to get the US to change.  If you were to actually do this you might find yourself surprised and needing to find a way to write the check.  No guarantees, but here as in most of the world money talks.

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