General > General Technical Chat

why is the US not Metric

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KL27x:
Bfseechannel.

As long as you get some kick out of this, I am here for you. I will be here to represent the stupid American for you to condescend. I created Trump. That's all me. Destabilization of the Middle East? My plan. The #6 machine screw in your blender? I did that just to piss you off. Global warming? You guessed it. 

But after I switch to metric, you will have no one left to lord your kilo's over except Guyana. I'm sure that was never the issue, though. And you will eventually tell me what is really bothering you. I'm listening. Let it out.

Mr. Scram:

--- Quote from: KL27x on November 18, 2019, 07:19:04 pm ---This is perfect example. The problem is not with imperial. The problem is that these Americans are stupid.
If we all conform to one system, these americans do not become smarter. They can just more easily hide their incompetence.

I work with other americans in designing PCBs and housings. I use imperial. He uses metric. Never once we ask another to use our units. We both offer to use the other's units, and we both decline. We have never had any mixup. If your american partner is stupid and you are so great, why not offer to use imperial yourself? This is only a problem when both parties are incompetent. In this case you hire a "translator." Maybe one of you has an 8 yr old kid who can help you out. The 8 yr old learned this more recently and perhaps still remembers how to do a conversion.

To me imperial was more natural because of experience with breadboards and 0.1" headers. And also to visual trace width, now. I just know what is what, more naturally. But to anyone I work with I will gladly adapt if they want. It is not much more to me but hitting a menu option. But when working with actual physical objects and fitting, I think always in imperial. When something is tight or rubbing or off just a tad, I can tell by the feel how many thousandths of an inch to change it. A thousandth is something that is real. I can see a thous; I can feel down to probably half a thous. This is my calibration to the physical world. I will translate this to metric if my partner prefers it, no problem.

So far, we've had only one minor clarification to cover. And that had nothing to do with metric. FWIW, who the heck else here calls a radius a chamfer?

--- End quote ---
Various space agencies have had to deal with the same. You'd say those are pretty smart cookies.

KL27x:

--- Quote from: Mr. Scram on November 19, 2019, 06:59:12 am ---Various space agencies have had to deal with the same. You'd say those are pretty smart cookies.

--- End quote ---
1999 Mars Orbiter? The Polar Lander produced by the same NASA era also failed for a totally different reason. They were using different methodology trying to minimize costs.

That was 20 years ago, and they managed to land a rover on Mars that did ok since then. They managed to land a man on the moon 25 years prior to that. They managed to send a bunch of manned shuttle missions up into the black yonder.

Do you think NASA or JPL did anything different on those other successful missions other than to not make a critical mistake? Being serious, not sarcastic. :-//

Those smart cookies did not care what units the software was coded in, as long as it was converted. Or something like that. And why would that change? The problem wasn't units; the problem was a human error. Do you think America changing its road signs will prevent this kind of error in the future? Do you think JPL engineers don't still use imperial (and metric?). I dunno? Maybe they erased imperial from their company, completely? Maybe not? Or do you think maybe they test the software and verify the results first before launching a rocket to Mars?

You might say if imperial did not exist, this kind of problem would not happen. True. Of all the things that could have been faulty in SOFTWARE, well, this is just one straw in a giant haystack. Maybe JPL makes their employees wear diapers and take away all sharp objects, now, too, so the geniuses have less things to worry about while getting a rocket all the way to frikkin Mars?

vk6zgo:

--- Quote from: Cubdriver on November 19, 2019, 05:50:34 am ---
--- Quote from: bsfeechannel on November 19, 2019, 03:40:30 am ---

--- Quote from: forrestc on November 15, 2019, 11:50:57 pm ---What is the exact economic benefit of changing the units we measure our roads by from miles to km?   

--- End quote ---

I'll invert the question. What exact economic benefit did all other countries in the world see in measuring their roads in km instead of miles? Did they think they'd save on tires or fuel with that change?

--- End quote ---

Sorry, it doesn't work that way.  You're trying to convince us to spend unknown (but surely ridiculous) amounts of money to replace every sign that indicates a speed or a distance, on every road in the entire United States.
--- End quote ---
I bet you that when you change a speed limit, you don't replace the whole sign, but instead just stick a new number over the old one.
1974 is a long time ago, & from memory, I think that was done in Oz, but maybe reflective stickers weren't quite up to it then,----we might have just replaced the oldest signs first, then progressively completed the others over years.
In any case, stickers is how you would do it now.

Another clever trick was to change each 5 mile increment of mileposts to an 8km increment, & remove the numbers from those in between.
People realised after a while that they didn't need posts every mile (or km).
We had those funny 8km posts for many years after '74.

--- Quote ---
 [ I don't need to justify NOT doing it, YOU need to convince me why we should.  All the drivers here think in miles and feet.  Speedometers are primarily marked in miles per hour. Odometers register miles, not km. In addition to replacing all the signage, do you suggest that everyone get their odometers replaced?  Re-gearing them won't work as that will bugger up the speed indication.  (Not that re-gearing them is really any more sensible)

--- End quote ---

Most people would do what we did in Australia----do a quick correction in their heads.
35 mph is fractionally less than 60kmh, 50mph is pretty much spot on 80kmh, 55mph is just a bit less than 90kmh, 60mph is just a fraction under 100kmh, & 65mph is just a fraction under 110kmh.

The nearest Metric speed to the existing Imperial ones was chosen in each case, so drivers of cars with "legacy" speedos would still be able to drive within the limits.

A few people bought new "stick on" labels to fit into their speedos, others bought gadgets to gear the whole thing up, but the latter weren't at all satisfactory, as the higher speeds were now all crushed up at the end of the scale.
As I said, above, most people didn't have to do anything, so they didn't.

--- Quote ---
Granted in many newer vehicles with electronic indicators it may just be a code change, but it's still a trip in for an otherwise unnecessary service, and there are more than 270 million cars in the US.  Do you expect every driver to pay an additional $50+ dollars per vehicle to get this done, too? 

--- End quote ---
As I pointed out, it was unnecesssary to modify speedos in 1974, so why is it so essential, now?
You can't tell me that American drivers are stupider than Australian ones!
--- Quote ---
In my opinion at least (and, from what I gather, the opinions of at least several others here in this thread), you have utterly failed to present a worthy reason.  "Because everyone else is" is not a very convincing justification to spend unknown billions of dollars to change something THAT IS WORKING JUST FINE FOR US!!



--- Quote from: forrestc ---It doesn't matter what the number system is, as long as everything matches.   The distance could be miles, or kilometers, or furlongs or kilosmoots, it wouldn't matter.   I'm not doing engineering with those figures.
--- End quote ---


--- Quote from: bsfeechannel ---So you drive a motorized vehicle along a road and you think you're not doing engineering.
--- End quote ---

Are you suggesting that drivers ARE doing engineering?  If not, what do you even mean by this statement?


--- Quote from: bsfeechannel ---Well, whoever builds and maintains the road is.
--- End quote ---

So?  What difference do the units used when the road is constructed make to the end user?  I drove up to Canada a few years ago.  I really didn't notice any difference in the roads, and my American vehicle had no issues whatsoever traveling on them.  Millions of people around the world plug their appliances and radios and computers into receptacles in the walls of their houses, and use those items as a matter of routine.  How many of them do you think have the foggiest notion of where the electricity comes from or how it gets to them?  Lots of engineering there, but no one really needs to know it in order to utilize the product.  Knowing the engineering involved in many things is completely unnecessary to USE said things.  Roads are among those things that don't require engineering knowledge to drive upon.


--- Quote from: bsfeechannel ---When I build a road in the US, I can use the meter. But then I have to give the distances in miles and clearances in feet and inches because the drivers will not understand that they can use the same unit that was used to build the road.
--- End quote ---

Yeah, and?  So what? 


--- Quote from: CatalinaWOW on November 15, 2019, 11:58:59 pm ---
And here we have the heart of the problem.  While the cost of replacing all of the non-metric street signs in America is trivial, the cost of replacing his brain dead, useless, totally antiquated US sourced products that he bought with beautiful metricated products, or the cost of moving back to some enlightened, forward thinking, economically advantaged part of the world is totally unreasonable.

Pardon me while I shed crocodile tears.

--- End quote ---

 :-DD   :-+


--- Quote from: bsfeechannel ---Maybe you think that, because the US still uses imperial units, they are automatically fashionable. But I can assure you they are not.
--- End quote ---

Nor is that what we think, as has been pointed out to you REPEATEDLY in this thread.  Are you truly incapable of grasping this, or are you being intentionally obtuse in order to continue making your arguments?


--- Quote from: bsfeechannel ---Outside the US, imperial is seen as deprecated, old-school, obsolete and, in many cases, a nuisance.
--- End quote ---

Then, once again, feel free not to buy or use any of our 'deprecated, old-school, obsolete, nuisance' things.  I think I can assure you that we will not shed many tears.

-Pat

--- End quote ---

Cubdriver:

--- Quote from: vk6zgo on November 19, 2019, 09:24:06 am ---
--- Quote from: Cubdriver on November 19, 2019, 05:50:34 am ---
--- Quote from: bsfeechannel on November 19, 2019, 03:40:30 am ---

--- Quote from: forrestc on November 15, 2019, 11:50:57 pm ---What is the exact economic benefit of changing the units we measure our roads by from miles to km?   

--- End quote ---

I'll invert the question. What exact economic benefit did all other countries in the world see in measuring their roads in km instead of miles? Did they think they'd save on tires or fuel with that change?

--- End quote ---

Sorry, it doesn't work that way.  You're trying to convince us to spend unknown (but surely ridiculous) amounts of money to replace every sign that indicates a speed or a distance, on every road in the entire United States.
--- End quote ---
I bet you that when you change a speed limit, you don't replace the whole sign, but instead just stick a new number over the old one.
1974 is a long time ago, & from memory, I think that was done in Oz, but maybe reflective stickers weren't quite up to it then,----we might have just replaced the oldest signs first, then progressively completed the others over years.
In any case, stickers is how you would do it now.

Another clever trick was to change each 5 mile increment of mileposts to an 8km increment, & remove the numbers from those in between.
People realised after a while that they didn't need posts every mile (or km).
We had those funny 8km posts for many years after '74.

--- Quote ---
 [ I don't need to justify NOT doing it, YOU need to convince me why we should.  All the drivers here think in miles and feet.  Speedometers are primarily marked in miles per hour. Odometers register miles, not km. In addition to replacing all the signage, do you suggest that everyone get their odometers replaced?  Re-gearing them won't work as that will bugger up the speed indication.  (Not that re-gearing them is really any more sensible)

--- End quote ---

Most people would do what we did in Australia----do a quick correction in their heads.
35 mph is fractionally less than 60kmh, 50mph is pretty much spot on 80kmh, 55mph is just a bit less than 90kmh, 60mph is just a fraction under 100kmh, & 65mph is just a fraction under 110kmh.

The nearest Metric speed to the existing Imperial ones was chosen in each case, so drivers of cars with "legacy" speedos would still be able to drive within the limits.

A few people bought new "stick on" labels to fit into their speedos, others bought gadgets to gear the whole thing up, but the latter weren't at all satisfactory, as the higher speeds were now all crushed up at the end of the scale.
As I said, above, most people didn't have to do anything, so they didn't.

--- Quote ---
Granted in many newer vehicles with electronic indicators it may just be a code change, but it's still a trip in for an otherwise unnecessary service, and there are more than 270 million cars in the US.  Do you expect every driver to pay an additional $50+ dollars per vehicle to get this done, too? 

--- End quote ---

--- End quote ---

Well, you've suggested a slightly lower cost 'how'.  I still fail to see WHY the government should piss away billions in tax dollars (when they're already running horrific deficits) TO CHANGE SOMETHING THAT IS CURRENTLY WORKING.


--- Quote from: vk6zgo ---As I pointed out, it was unnecesssary to modify speedos in 1974, so why is it so essential, now?
You can't tell me that American drivers are stupider than Australian ones!
--- End quote ---

Wanna bet?  Over here, it seems if you can fog a mirror seven times out of ten you can get a license.  There are some mind numbingly stupid people on the road.  (Though we do at least drive on the right side of it.  :P :P )

-Pat

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