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| why is the US not Metric |
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| Cerebus:
I'm amused that this argument has settled down to the red herring/strawman of metricating road signs. The UK is fully metric and has been for years. So much so that a few years back I was getting a lass, of perhaps 20 to 25 years age, on the meat counter in the supermarket to cut me a couple of steaks. She asked "How thick?", I said "1 inch", she said "How much is that?", "Two and half centimetres." said I. So metrication is sufficiently ingrained that there is at least one generation that has always had the Internet and doesn't know Imperial units, even ones that are still in casual use by older generations. We sell and price petrol in litres, measure vehicle weights in kilos, official fuel efficiency figures are in litres/100km and yet have stuck with statute miles and miles per hour for road signage. It hasn't changed and we saw no need to change it as it is the least consequential of all possible changes. There's no great advantage to changing it in the way that there is a great advantage to an M6 bolt being the same size in Doncaster, Dieppe, Düßeldorf, Dubrovnik, and Dabrowa Górnicza. |
| Cubdriver:
--- Quote from: vk6zgo on November 20, 2019, 02:03:43 pm --- --- Quote from: Cubdriver on November 19, 2019, 09:52:28 am --- Well, you've suggested a slightly lower cost 'how'. I still fail to see WHY the government should piss away billions in tax dollars (when they're already running horrific deficits) TO CHANGE SOMETHING THAT IS CURRENTLY WORKING. --- End quote --- I dunno, I've already saved US motorists 13.5 billion dollars, compared to your initial estimate, & even allowing for the outlier cases, you should be able to save at least 50% by using stickers instead of completely replacing all your signs . Many could be done with two guys in a pickup truck with a stepladder. --- End quote --- Awesome!! "Doing something you see no good reason to do won't cost as much as you initially thought!" Is that your idea of a rational case for it? Doesn't strike me as a very compelling argument for it.. All the houses in the neighborhood are painted white. Mine is painted grey. The paint on my house is intact, solid, not chalking or peeling. There's nothing wrong with it. It's just grey, and everyone else has a white house. The neighbors would like me to paint my house white, like theirs are. I see no compelling reason to do so - the people living in my house are content with the color, the existing paint is in good nick and does not need to be replaced, and I have more important things to spend my hard earned cash on than changing the color of my house for no reason other than my neighbors would like it to match theirs. I fail to see how painting it a different color would provide any benefit to me. My neighbors then start saying "Well, you could just paint one side a year, and in four years it will be done!!" "We got our houses painted 40 years ago, and it didn't cost that much!" And now you come along and say "The paint is on sale!!!" So... My question remains unanswered... Why should we change from a system that is currently working just fine for us? --- Quote from: vk6zgo ---In any case, each State will already have provision in their Budget for sign replacement, so some of the cost could be covered by that.(if, of course, such signs are a State responsibility like they are in Oz). It doesn't have to be done immediately, anyway. --- End quote --- Why should we? --- Quote from: vk6zgo ---The whole cost of Metrication in Australia was hardly a "blip" on the curve showing the total outgoings including other, usually recurring, expenses. --- End quote --- Glad to hear that. Why should the US spend money to change all of our signage to metric? --- Quote from: vk6zgo ---At this point, you are perhaps thinking "Australia has a much smaller population-- it won't scale". Maybe, but you have a much larger economy, & many more people to do the acual work. --- End quote --- No, actually I'm still thinking "Why should we make them work to change our signs? What benefit or ROI will be seen?" --- Quote from: vk6zgo ---As I pointed out, it was unnecesssary to modify speedos in 1974, so why is it so essential, now? You can't tell me that American drivers are stupider than Australian ones! --- End quote --- I suppose that there is no need to change the speedometers or odometers. But why should we change the signage and require drivers to do mental gymnastics to calculate speed and distance, when the system currently in place DOES NOT REQUIRE THIS? --- Quote from: vk6zgo ---At the end of the day, few people really care if you go Metric or stay "Customary", but arguments that can be substantially refuted don't make your case much more rational. --- End quote --- What is your 'rational' case for making the change, again? As far as I'm concerned, you haven't made one. It seems to be "Few people care if you go metric or stay customary, but you should spend untold billions of dollars to do it anyway." 1) The system we have currently suits us just fine. (pro) 2) It would cost a great deal of money to replace all the signage in the United States. (con) 3) Changing to metric signage would render at the very least the odometers in the estimated 250+ MILLION cars in the US inaccurate, and require computation on the fly by drivers to gauge distances. (con) So, once again, my question remains. Why should we do it? What is the benefit, and how does that benefit justify the cost? -Pat |
| KL27x:
^LOL a few times. That pesky encyclopedia salesman just doesn't quit. "This is the cheapest it will ever be, and if you act now..." --- Quote from: Tepe on November 20, 2019, 12:14:50 pm --- --- Quote from: KL27x on November 20, 2019, 03:51:00 am ---English units are still used in airplaney things, apparently, to this day. --- End quote --- Wasn't always like that: --- End quote --- Interesting pic, but the context would be nice to have. Are you suggesting this was the first "failed metrication" of America? We tried to get pilots to switch to metric, and they noped us back to "200 knots and 30,000 feet?" Or was this pic of flight instruments from a country which initially used metric in their planes but now uses imperial (probably influenced by other countries/allies)? In either case, I am reminded of a scene from Lethal Weapon 2. The toilet scene Murtov, sitting on a toilet bomb: Wait! Murtov looks at Riggs, embarrassedly. Mortov: Do we... you know. On 3? Or 1, 2, 3, and then? Riggs: It's your ass, Cochese. You decide. An engineer doesn't need to care. Changing units does not change any of the engineering. If the customer says "I want this piece moved to there," you might tell him that you can, but it will no longer work. You'd have to strengthen this other part, and add this, and weight will go up by x, maintenance routine will be 3x as frequent, manufacturing cost will go up by x,... and I can go on, but let's just say it sucks. Why not tell me what you are trying to do and maybe together we can come up with a better solution? But the units, themselves, don't change the engineering. So if the pilot wants feet, why not give it in feet? It's his life. --- Quote from: HighVoltage on November 20, 2019, 12:22:19 pm ---And when I replied with yes, he would not believe me. In his mind, an engine could only be built "correctly" by using imperial units. --- End quote --- That is funny and it is true. I bet there are still a few people who think like this, today. And of course it applies to users of either system of measurement. And you would THINK that this minority of humanity would NOT find their way into a profession like engineering or machining, but I'm sure some do. |
| bsfeechannel:
--- Quote from: KL27x on November 19, 2019, 06:32:33 am ---Bfseechannel. --- End quote --- Sono qua! --- Quote ---As long as you get some kick out of this, I am here for you. I will be here to represent the stupid American for you to condescend. I created Trump. That's all me. Destabilization of the Middle East? My plan. --- End quote --- Aw, come on, man. Don't be so hard on yourself. Using a medieval system of units doesn't make the US a bad country. Calling that collarbone-breaking game football does. --- Quote ---The #6 machine screw in your blender? I did that just to piss you off. --- End quote --- It was a fridge. --- Quote ---But after I switch to metric, you will have no one left to lord your kilo's over except Guyana. --- End quote --- Metric system of measurement needs to be used exclusively- GNBS (Guyana National Bureau of Standards). The bold letters are mine. It seems that Guyana is leading the free world, now. By far. --- Quote ---I'm sure that was never the issue, though. And you will eventually tell me what is really bothering you. I'm listening. Let it out. --- End quote --- Read on. --- Quote from: Cubdriver on November 19, 2019, 09:52:28 am ---I still fail to see WHY the government should piss away billions in tax dollars (when they're already running horrific deficits) --- End quote --- That's the answer I was looking for! In other words, metric is really cool, but the government, mired in scandals and deficits, is not strong enough to educate Jack Sixpack and Jenny Average about the benefits of metrication, much less to ask for a small contribution and effort during the mildly discomforting transition. Until this embarrassing situation is solved, the US will still be forced to stick to this inconvenient system of units for quite a while. I already knew that, and I guess someone posted an old Usenet joke about it, but it is fine to see someone admitting it for real. It's so good an answer that we can start our own conspiracy theories on how the government is interested in maintaining this state of affairs despite the fact that people end up paying more to stay imperial than to switch to metric in the long run. |
| Tepe:
--- Quote from: KL27x on November 20, 2019, 08:59:01 pm ---Interesting pic, but the context would be nice to have. Are you suggesting this was the first "failed metrication" of America? We tried to get pilots to switch to metric, and they noped us back to "200 knots and 30,000 feet?" --- End quote --- Not at all. --- Quote from: KL27x on November 20, 2019, 08:59:01 pm ---Or was this pic of flight instruments from a country which initially used metric in their planes but now uses imperial (probably influenced by other countries/allies)? --- End quote --- It's from the cockpit of a Bf 109, so yes, it's from a country that used metric in their planes. The current non-metric situation in aviation is related to the realities of the post WW2 world. |
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