General > General Technical Chat

why is the US not Metric

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tooki:

--- Quote from: boffin on November 25, 2019, 04:14:10 pm ---
--- Quote from: SilverSolder on November 23, 2019, 10:28:51 pm ---
Is it actually a problem that metric and imperial co-exist?

It doesn't seem any different than dealing with ancient measurements elsewhere (e.g. when cooking:  tablespoons, teaspoons, cups, ...)  which can be more convenient in real world usage than an exact number of milliliters...   in fact, mixed units are common when cooking.  (e.g. 600g flour + 435ml water + 1.5tsp yeast + 1tsp salt + 2tbsp honey to make bread dough).

--- End quote ---

Interestingly, the new season of [US Based] "Good Eats" appears to be mostly metric.

--- End quote ---
Wasn't Alton Brown always pro-metric, at least when precise measurement was required?

CatalinaWOW:

--- Quote from: bsfeechannel on November 25, 2019, 02:48:49 pm ---
--- Quote from: tooki on November 25, 2019, 10:49:54 am ---What I dispute is the arrogant claims that the rest of the world is 100% metric, which isn’t true.

--- End quote ---

The rest of the world IS 100% metric and you know that's true. You can hear echos of imperial or customary units "here and there", but you know darn well that imperial outside the US is DEAD.

The confidence of the world in metric units is such that many countries banned imperial by force of law, in other words, imperial is illegal.

Imperial has no future whatsoever, so do not maintain any illusions about it.

--- End quote ---

I must also point out that most of the world has made a lot of things illegal.  Like murder.  Driving faster than posted limits.  Stealing other peoples property.

And for reasons totally incomprehensible to some, those activities still occur.  Even though almost all agree that the world would be a better place if they didn't. 

I don't lose much sleep over the difference between a perfect world and the one we actually live in.

Cerebus:

--- Quote from: CatalinaWOW on November 25, 2019, 06:06:05 pm ---
--- Quote from: bsfeechannel on November 25, 2019, 02:48:49 pm ---
--- Quote from: tooki on November 25, 2019, 10:49:54 am ---What I dispute is the arrogant claims that the rest of the world is 100% metric, which isn’t true.

--- End quote ---

The rest of the world IS 100% metric and you know that's true. You can hear echos of imperial or customary units "here and there", but you know darn well that imperial outside the US is DEAD.

The confidence of the world in metric units is such that many countries banned imperial by force of law, in other words, imperial is illegal.

Imperial has no future whatsoever, so do not maintain any illusions about it.

--- End quote ---

I must also point out that most of the world has made a lot of things illegal.  Like murder.  Driving faster than posted limits.  Stealing other peoples property.

And for reasons totally incomprehensible to some, those activities still occur.  Even though almost all agree that the world would be a better place if they didn't. 

I don't lose much sleep over the difference between a perfect world and the one we actually live in.

--- End quote ---

I think this is just a case of someone not understanding that "not legal for trade" and "illegal" are two completely different things.

Yes, if I set up a market stall in the UK and exclusively use Imperial units to weigh the goods I sell I will get slapped on the wrist, and prosecuted if I persist. I will not however fall foul of the authorities if when asked for half-a-pound of carrots I weight out half a pound and let my scales calculate that at the marked price of 50p/kg that comes to 11p. Just the same as when I go into a pub and ask for a pint I will be served 568ml.

Imperial/customary units are not, to the best of my knowledge, "illegal" anywhere. There is no black market in oz weights, nobody siddles up to you, flips their "Flash Harry" coat open and whispers "'Ere guv! I've got some loverly Whitworth screws 'ere, nice mature BA spanners. Oh, oh, watch it, a rozzer just came around the corner". The police cannot get a search warrant on the grounds that they have "reason to believe that Mr. Smith of 331/3 Two Mile Drive is in possession of a quantity of 12 inch rulers".

KL27x:
Guitar that goes to 11.

American: that's different. But the markings are perfectly spaced. The silkscreen is fine. We will just use it the way it is.

vk6go/Cerebus: well, it works good enough. But in my head I will convert it, so as to think only the proper value. When this guitar is worn out, I will get one with the proper knob.

Bsfeechannel: Volume knobs go to 10, not 11. Burn the evil.


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A lot of countries abandoned imperial for metric. For most countries, they had good reasons to do this. And many did not have a good reason to not simply forget imperial.

America was an innovator in machining and manufacturing. I don't know who invented the rifle, but America was at the forefront of development. America was just a wilderness an ocean apart from the civilized world and the cradle of technology. Despite this, America developed many innovations and the Kentucky rifle was at one point the pinnacle of this technology.

To make rifles requires lathes to bore straight barrels. And to make the rifling, there are many methods. But the best rifling of the age was made in a very similar way that threading is cut. It requires a lathe with a gear box. This didn't exist, yet. This is how we got to threaded fasteners to begin with.

Getting to where we are today, regarding our ability to precisely and accurately shape steel requires actual tools. It requires a lot of them. Anyone who is kinda into machining knows you need a bazillion different tools to do it. And after you have a bazillion tools and bits and adapters, you still always need to buy one more to finish the job. Shaping steel is slow. Modern machining capability is the result of centuries of persistence, like water eroding a river rock. You can't build or rebuild that in a day. Each block was used to build the next and so on, into a massive pile of parts and tools that work together.

I wouldn't go so far to say America is the father or cradle of modern machining. But America has a very long and deep history of advancing man's accuracy and ability to shape steel. And this ability and accuracy has nothing to do with any measuring system. This bajillion tools which you could say have been producing the worlds finest weapons since the 1800's to today, are valuable because they are accurate, not because they may or may not be in inches. Tanks and guns are not made with metric or imperial. They are made with steel, shaped by people using tools.

It's not just machining and weapons. It's manufacturing, materials science, heavy machinery like tractors and earth moving equipment. And heavy drills for making wells and for extracting crude oil. Electricity and locomotives. Light bulbs. The Model T to General Motors. The Wright Brothers to Boeing and to outer space. America still leads the world in some of these areas. And in many more, they were right up there if not leading the way for more than their share of the past 200 years.

To a country that had not developed advanced machining and manufacturing technology, w/e their trade partners or conquerors brought to them, that was infinitely better than what they had. They had no reason to not forget imperial, cuz their technology (not their intelligence or education) was well behind. They didn't necessarily choose metric. They chose the better technology.

When German technology showed up on your shores, your jaws dropped to the floor. You said "I'll take that! The markings on the tools are funny, but what the heck. We were using imperial buckets only to measure the cow manure and mud we smear on our straw huts. I think we'll be fine with millimeters."

When German tools showed up on our shores, we said "Well, they copied our collet design. The way they adjust the tram is improved. And it looks like they finally figured out the reason this mating surface should  intentionally be not quite parallel. They closed the gap a bit on the backlash, too. This bit looks interesting, though. Let's figure out why they did it."

It might put things into a new perspective if you keep in mind that a lot of our most amazing and world-changing technology was developed during wars and in the cold war era. Technological advancement was not a luxury. It was a race. America was one of the frontrunners, and Americans ran this race in inches. The wake this leaves behind is pretty significant.   

Cerebus:

--- Quote from: KL27x on November 25, 2019, 07:40:32 pm ---Guitar that goes to 11.

American: that's different. But the markings are perfectly spaced. The silkscreen is fine. We will just use it the way it is.

vk6go: well, it works good enough. But in my head I will convert it, so as to think only the proper value. When this guitar is worn out, I will get one with the proper knob.

Bsfeechannel: Volume knobs go to 10, not 11. Burn the evil.

--- End quote ---

You've missed the point of the original joke.

... much preamble omitted...
Marty: "Why not just have ten be louder?"
Nigel: "But these go up to eleven"
Audience thinks: "That Nigel's a real stupid tit"

Ergo, those who think that 11's better are Nigels. Those who think 11 is still good when everybody else is using 10 are at least Ruperts*.

*Drawn from an informal scale of given names of English upper class idiots traditionally associated with the 'officer class'.

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