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why is the US not Metric

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forrestc:

--- Quote from: bsfeechannel on December 05, 2019, 10:37:21 pm ---Of course. There's nothing more hilarious than to see a bunch of guys defending the imperial system on an engineering forum.

--- End quote ---

I don't see anyone defending the imperial system.   Maybe a bit of good-natured ribbing about names being better, but I think that most of us agree that in a circumstance where there were no legacy systems that metric would be preferable. 

Let's put this in engineering terms:

The switch to metric has both costs and benefits.   A good engineer will look at both sides of the equation and determine whether the benefits outweigh the costs.   Just like you wouldn't use a .0001% resistor where a dirt cheap 1% metal film one would do, a good engineer won't pick something just because it has better tech specs and ignore the costs.  That is, cost is something you have to include in determining which solution is better.

The cost to leave our road signs alone is minimal.   The cost to switch is enormous.   The benefits of switching are dubious.   So it doesn't get switched.   I recently came across the document at https://www.gao.gov/assets/230/221472.pdf which had an estimate of $754 million (754 megadollars) to switch state and local road signs to km in 1995.  This is nearly $1.3 billion in today's dollars.   And this appears to be just the signage and not everything else which would trickle down from it.   In order to get engineering types to want to switch, one would have to come up with benefits exceeding $1.3 Billion (1.3 Gigadollars) at the bare minimum.   I still don't understand why this is so hard to grasp.

On the other hand, the cost to switch much of science and engineering was minimal, and the benefits were great, so it largely got switched.   And for those who say we still measure temperature in *F, one should note that the national weather service apparently operates at least some of their systems internally in *C and just converts for public-facing reports.   Because these are computer-generated, it isn't a big deal.

The cost to switch the ATC system's elevation readouts worldwide from Feet to Meters would be high, and even higher is the risk of serious accidents as a result of this switch due to the confusion caused.   So it doesn't get done.

These are all engineering decisions.   Often the correct system is the one which is already in place, even though something better might be available.   Every engineer worth their salt has learned this lesson. 

Cubdriver:

--- Quote from: forrestc on December 06, 2019, 12:20:31 am ---
--- Quote from: bsfeechannel on December 05, 2019, 10:37:21 pm ---Of course. There's nothing more hilarious than to see a bunch of guys defending the imperial system on an engineering forum.

--- End quote ---

I don't see anyone defending the imperial system.   Maybe a bit of good-natured ribbing about names being better, but I think that most of us agree that in a circumstance where there were no legacy systems that metric would be preferable. 

Let's put this in engineering terms:

The switch to metric has both costs and benefits.   A good engineer will look at both sides of the equation and determine whether the benefits outweigh the costs.   Just like you wouldn't use a .0001% resistor where a dirt cheap 1% metal film one would do, a good engineer won't pick something just because it has better tech specs and ignore the costs.  That is, cost is something you have to include in determining which solution is better.

The cost to leave our road signs alone is minimal.   The cost to switch is enormous.   The benefits of switching are dubious.   So it doesn't get switched.   I recently came across the document at https://www.gao.gov/assets/230/221472.pdf which had an estimate of $754 million (754 megadollars) to switch state and local road signs to km in 1995.  This is nearly $1.3 billion in today's dollars.   And this appears to be just the signage and not everything else which would trickle down from it.   In order to get engineering types to want to switch, one would have to come up with benefits exceeding $1.3 Billion (1.3 Gigadollars) at the bare minimum.   I still don't understand why this is so hard to grasp.

On the other hand, the cost to switch much of science and engineering was minimal, and the benefits were great, so it largely got switched.   And for those who say we still measure temperature in *F, one should note that the national weather service apparently operates at least some of their systems internally in *C and just converts for public-facing reports.   Because these are computer-generated, it isn't a big deal.

The cost to switch the ATC system's elevation readouts worldwide from Feet to Meters would be high, and even higher is the risk of serious accidents as a result of this switch due to the confusion caused.   So it doesn't get done.

These are all engineering decisions.   Often the correct system is the one which is already in place, even though something better might be available.   Every engineer worth their salt has learned this lesson.

--- End quote ---

VERY well said!

-Pat

KL27x:
BTW the French still pour wine by the finger. Wine? Yes, 3 fingers. That would be the level in the wine glass.

BSF logic: By switching to mililiters vs fingers, this would improve efficiency. The French wine industry is 9 billion euros a year. An improvement in the efficiency and quality of wine pouring of only 1% would save France 90 million euros a year. If the true savings were only even a tenth of that, it would still be 9 million euros a year!

Brought to you by the French Association of Metric Winetards, a French instutition! You see, France? Even your finest people understand how costly these fingers are in money and progress as proven by this detailed report. It's obvious. Economy of scale and things. Use metric and $profit-baby Cha-ching!!!! Jackpot lotto!!! $ $ $

Fingers benefit the 1%. Go metric, and Jack and Jenny will be rolling in dough!

More BSF logic: Are you saying that drinking a glass of wine isn't engineering?

vk6zgo:

--- Quote from: Cubdriver on December 05, 2019, 08:30:40 pm ---
--- Quote from: Tepe on December 05, 2019, 03:12:28 pm ---
--- Quote from: vk6zgo on December 05, 2019, 01:05:52 pm ---
Nice try, but I've been around the traps for a long time, & I have never seen "millimicrofarad', which, of course, translates to "nanofarad".

The normal units in the old days were microfarads(uF), & picofarads(pF).
The most common capacitor values were in whole microfarads & decimal parts of uF, with the next level down in pF.
In some very old UK , US, & Australian equipment, you will find the label on a cap of "micromicrofarads", which, is equivalent to pF.

A snappy rejoinder is lost on KL27x, especially if you get your facts wrong.

--- End quote ---

Here are some millimicrofarads. 50 of them, in fact:
(Attachment Link)

--- End quote ---

I too have never in my life heard the term 'millimicrofarad'.  Old caps in the US were typically abbreviated as MFD (for microfarads) and MMFD (for micro-micro farads, or picofarads).  I've no idea why they didn't us pF for picofarads, but MFD makes sense from back in the day when we didn't have desktop publishing where we could type alt-230 and get a 'ยต' symbol; perhaps they just did MMFD for some sort of strange consistency.

-Pat

--- End quote ---

Even then it was silly.(& yes, we did it in Australia, too.)

A lower case "u" is so close to a "mu" sign, that "they could kiss without sin", so for decades after the use of the capitals ceased, was used as a substitute for the proper symbol, so that very many capacitors & drawings of them in schematics  were labelled "uF",or more rarely, "uuF".

This was just one of the "workarounds" printers used, like the "beta" sign for the German "double s" symbol.

bsfeechannel:

--- Quote from: KL27x on December 05, 2019, 06:42:39 am ---You seem really naive to think this is about you and your screws,
--- End quote ---

The same straw man again? Can we proclaim you Your Majesty, the King Of The Straw Men? Of course it is not about me and my screws. The screws are an indication of a FACT: imperial costs more to maintain. And that's the point.

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