General > General Technical Chat
why is the US not Metric
forrestc:
--- Quote from: bsfeechannel on December 06, 2019, 03:59:22 am ---Conclusion, the imperial system is perfect for penny-pinching drivers, people without a degree in meteorology and frightened pilots.
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Exactly! Now you get it !!!!!
Well, I'm not sure that frightened pilots is exactly right - I'd probably switch to "Risk Adverse Aviation Regulators". And I'm not quite sure drivers are the right people to say that that part is perfect for (maybe penny-pinching road departments instead), but yes, you finally get it!
And if it's perfect why would one want to change to something else?
Finally!!!! We agree!!!! Thanks for coming around to our viewpoint!!!!
vk6zgo:
--- Quote from: KL27x on December 06, 2019, 05:00:11 am ---v6kgzo:
--- Quote ---It is a shame that the USA didn't manage to export their rationalised ton & gallon to the world, prior to Metric appearing.
Imagine how easy it would be to convert if there were 2 lbs to a kg, & 2000lbs to a ton/tonne, but, alas, that was not to be, & that part of Metric grew from the already established traditional ton, gallons, etc.
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If we had the internet back then, it would have been so much easier!
Hmm... so... I just figured something. A stone is 14 lb. 14 lb x 160 = 2240 lb. So... what's the Brit obsession with the stone?
OTOH, could Frenchy have made metric to fit better with imperial? There's not much good reason I can fathom why the meter has to be based on the circumference of the earth. Maybe it had to be completely different and appropriately sciencey in order to be accepted, but if Frenchy had wanted to, could he have made things more compatible?
But as it is, the only extra number I really seem to need in order to live with two systems is 2.54. So I think things worked out pretty good.
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bsfeechannel:
--- Quote ---No sir, a good engineer would also analyze why and how all others switched to a different solution than what is already in place and would study how to repeat the same successful experience.
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You are not doing this. The "why" other countries did this is not nearly the same situation that modern America is in. Because of modern education and the internet. Also because of the size of our road system. Also, because of the manufacturing and machining history of America, upon which we relied on our own standard (we did not accept Brit standards made in 1825, because we had already gained our independence). We needed tools to build tools to make stuff. And we made them to our own internal standard, requiring and utilizing ever increasing degrees of precision and standardization. We did it in inches. We didn't care if they were compatible with the rest of the world, cuz we were on the other side of an ocean, and we were making stuff that didn't exist, yet. You just got your stuff from Britain and other EU countries. We were not part of that club.
Many of the former british colonies did not have much cost to changing, other than road signs and measuring cups. They were only changing a method of measuring the mud to build their homes and to measure the cuts to make their horse drawn carriages. Their economies were based on export of raw materials and import of things that were made with fancy tooling. More advanced nations sold tractors and logging equipment and mining equipment to these countries, so they could produce even more raw materials for export. And when they were asked to measure their raw materials in kg's, what the hell, why not? What the hell else would they do, since their measuring equipment was imported, too? All they wanted was continued mutually beneficial relationships and fair pay for their output. And then there are the politics, which I'm sure had some part in nearly every single metrication story.
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Just when I get to think you are fairly rational, you post abject "duck poo" like the above.
Mud huts, my backside!
Even the least developed Commonwealth countries had far more complex economies than you suggest.
Australia has been an independent nation since 1901, & had its own manufacturing sector of the economy.
Yes, some stuff was imported, but much of our needs, including measuring equipment was locally made.
We sold stuff to countries with all systems of measurements, & unlike your estimation of your own countrymen, knew how to translate between units.
Unfortunately, "market forces"have decreed we should buy crap from overseas, instead of making our own stuff.
The imported stuff is cheaper, but you usually have to replace it at quite short intervals, so the savings are illusory.
Another "ex colony" is India, which produces enormous quantities of manufactured goods.
--- Quote ---
All of these changes as might affect other countries, America was able to make without actually changing too much of its internal usage. That's partly due to modern education level and internal manufacturing capability. And now the internet/connectivity. And partly due to size; no one needs to drive from Canada to Mexico or vice versa, on a day trip. We essentially don't need to change in the way that was beneficial in other countries in other times. We don't have the pressures that many of those other countries faced, financially and politically.
--- Quote ---Conclusion, the imperial system is perfect for penny-pinching drivers, people without a degree in meteorology and frightened pilots.
--- End quote ---
Hmmmm.
99% of the world does not hold a degree meteorology. Of the 1% that studied meteorology and received their degree, let's say 90% drive. And of those, let's say half are thrifty. Then let's add the 4 meteorologist pilots who are frightened.
So your message is... for roughly 99.5% of the world's population, imperial is the perfect system?
--- Quote ---What engineering practice?
--- End quote ---
bsfeechannel, earlier in the thread: "Is driving a car on a road not engineering?" :-DD
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KL27x:
--- Quote ---Just when I get to think you are fairly rational, you post abject "duck poo" like the above.
Mud huts, my backside!
Even the least developed Commonwealth countries had far more complex economies than you suggest.
Australia has been an independent nation since 1901, & had its own manufacturing sector of the economy.
Yes, some stuff was imported, but much of our needs, including measuring equipment was locally made.
--- End quote ---
Well I went too far. But I didn't say Australia, exactly. Nor did I specify the year. There were plenty of tropical islands that were part of the commonwealth. Countries that are still 100% dependent on imports in order to have even building material for houses, cars, refrigerators, the whole nine yards. America also started out as a raw material factory for Britain. We all did.
But back to Australia, you mentioned a car industry? What company? Did Australia develop this industry independently? Or did a car company in another country help to build a plant in Australia? This is before metrication?
At the time of WWII, America was so self-sufficient it basically ignored the war until near the end. America had most all the raw materials, agriculture, and manufacturing tech it needed, and it was pretty content to watch the rest of the world kill each other. Until Pearl Harbor, or something like that. I would think most of the rest of the former commonwealth did not have this situation. I thought they had economies that were more closely intertwined with their neighbors.
Not trying to ruffle feathers, but I work with folks doing business in Australia. And they liken the retail marketplace to America 20 years ago. As far as internet vs brick and mortar, anyway. That is not necessarily a bad thing. Maybe it's good that your country isn't taken over by Amazon, yet.
None of this was meant as an insult. There's no reason to reinvent the wheel. If it has already been done and perfected, it is easier to buy it or copy it than to start all over. This is why most of the developed world has AC, refrigerators, cars, cable TV, internet. This is why we trade. The stuff Australia was importing from its neighbors was increasingly metric.
And you can't deny that Australia didn't have the internet when it metricated. Al Gore still hadn't even invented the computer, yet. We were all still getting our world education and local propaganda huddled around a TV; no VCR to even record it for posterity. If your government got the feeling to change, you watched it live on TV. It was a group, national experience. "Our country faces a grave threat. We must change to metric, or we will be left behind." And then you looked at each other, all serious. Sheila and Bruce and Peyton. And said, "G'day, mate! Shrimp on the barbie!"
Today, if our president suggested it, we'd be making fun of him on Twitter within 5 seconds.
Tepe:
--- Quote from: forrestc on December 06, 2019, 12:20:31 am ---The cost to leave our road signs alone is minimal. The cost to switch is enormous. The benefits of switching are dubious. So it doesn't get switched. I recently came across the document at https://www.gao.gov/assets/230/221472.pdf which had an estimate of $754 million (754 megadollars) to switch state and local road signs to km in 1995. This is nearly $1.3 billion in today's dollars.
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Enormous? The US population in 1995 was 266.6 million so $2.87 per capita...
For comparison the same year the US spent $321.6 billion on the military or about $1,206 per capita.
The total national health expenditure that year was $1,022 billion or $3,833 per capita.
Add all the other public spending and that drop in the bucket becomes even more negligibly small.
It's not the cost that keeps the US from metricating the road signs, it is lack of will and that is totally understandable. It wouldn't really serve any purpose.
Mr. Scram:
--- Quote from: SilverSolder on December 06, 2019, 04:35:58 am ---When all is said and done - isn't it really about priorities?
For example, what should USA do first: implement universal health care similar to most other advanced economies, or switch over to the metric system?
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If Sweden could get it done I gather the greatest country in the world should be able to manage.
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